[nickbuol]

Your speakers are efficient. You don't need amps to help them unless you are sitting a long ways from them and running them full range. And even then it is debatable.

You could get a cheap amp or two for the ATMOS speakers and be good.

I too got hoodwinked not once, not twice, but three times about external amplification -- and the third time, ponied up for a Mark Levinson design amp thinking surely an amp that costs as much as the rest of the system would be what people are talking about.

Nope. The only time it made a difference was with speakers that had sensitivity around 80. Then it helped.

Thanks.

Outlaw makes a 5 channel amp at 120watts per channel for for $749 MSRP plus $65 shipping that could do the 4 overheads. That makes the MRX-740 with amp almost the same price as the MRX-1140 and at that point I would just stay with the single-box solution of the MRX-1140 based off of your statements.

 

[RaggedEdge]

@RaggedEdge no I believe you can get the 720/740 and a cheap 2 channel amp for way less than an 1120/1140. You can then add another 2 channel amp and get to 7.1.4 iirc?

The 720 allows you to re-assign channels the way you want? Make the back channels heights?

 

[nathan_h]

Thanks.

Outlaw makes a 5 channel amp at 120watts per channel for for $749 MSRP plus $65 shipping that could do the 4 overheads. That makes the MRX-740 with amp almost the same price as the MRX-1140 and at that point I would just stay with the single-box solution of the MRX-1140 based off of your statements.

Sure, except for Atmos channels, you can spend $200 and be fine with a simple pair of stereo amps for the overheads. I'm not saying the 1140 is a bad choice, but in terms of economics even after a couple amps for ATMOS, it's still six hundred bucks more, if you are trying to meet a price point. (That said, the 1140 can do more channels which you may want or enjoy some day.)

 

[nickbuol]

Sure, except for Atmos channels, you can spend $200 and be fine with a simple pair of stereo amps for the overheads. I'm not saying the 1140 is a bad choice, but in terms of economics even after a couple amps for ATMOS, it's still six hundred bucks more, if you are trying to meet a price point. (That said, the 1140 can do more channels which you may want or enjoy some day.)

What kind of stereo amps are you thinking for $200? Maybe I am overlooking something.

 

[markmon1]

Thanks.

Outlaw makes a 5 channel amp at 120watts per channel for for $749 MSRP plus $65 shipping that could do the 4 overheads. That makes the MRX-740 with amp almost the same price as the MRX-1140 and at that point I would just stay with the single-box solution of the MRX-1140 based off of your statements.

That is way ridiculously overpriced for just overhead speakers.
These would all be perfectly fine for ceiling atmos:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B002UL0XH2 <-- 2 of these $194 shipped total.
https://www.amazon.com//dp/B07PTKB9RV <-- 2 of these $242 shipped total.

 

[nathan_h]

Yes those would be fine for Atmos Speakers.

 

[nickbuol]

Thanks guys.

 

[AlexLac]

What kind of stereo amps are you thinking for $200? Maybe I am overlooking something.

You can even get a small chip amp / desktop for like $60-70.
e.g:

https://www.amazon.com/Amplifier-Channel-TPA3251-Frequency-Professional/dp/B081RPKLJK

You'll need a PSU for it so that should hit around $70ish.

 

[mv038856]

Your speakers are efficient. You don't need amps to help them unless you are sitting a long ways from them and running them full range. And even then it is debatable.

You could get a cheap amp or two for the ATMOS speakers and be good.

I too got hoodwinked not once, not twice, but three times about external amplification -- and the third time, ponied up for a Mark Levinson design amp thinking surely an amp that costs as much as the rest of the system would be what people are talking about.

Nope. The only time it made a difference was with speakers that had sensitivity around 80. Then it helped.

I would assume that it really is a question of how demanding and how capable the speakers are that are to be driven.

I have always been on separates, but I once sold a Bryston 6B ST to a German engineer that was working in Brazil. He was using a Denon AVR to drive his B&W 800 series LCR speakers. He reported that when he connected the Bryston 6B ST, it was like night and day for him. He felt that there was no need for a subwoofer anymore, because the 6B ST exerted so much control on and was able to really drive the B&W speakers in way the integrated Denon amp stages could not.

So the old rule that 'a chain is only as strong as its weakest link' still applies, IMHO.

My 2 cents again...

Markus

 

[markmon1]

You can even get a small chip amp / desktop for like $60-70.
e.g:

https://www.amazon.com/Amplifier-Channel-TPA3251-Frequency-Professional/dp/B081RPKLJK

You'll need a PSU for it so that should hit around $70ish.

I'd probably avoid these for a home theater setup. They are way over rated and very noisy. They really lack dynamics. Since they run on 12v you'd need a 30amp power supply to provide the proper output. Yet they recommend at least a 6a power supply. These amps are really just toys.

 

[AlexLac]

I'd probably avoid these for a home theater setup. They are way over rated and very noisy. They really lack dynamics. Since they run on 12v you'd need a 30amp power supply to provide the proper output. Yet they recommend at least a 6a power supply. These amps are really just toys.

Like in everything there are better and worse. Small form factor can be useful for some and that can work fine for something like atmos imo. The TPA3255 based ones are quite popular now. I have the one I linked which is TPA3251 based. It's not noisy and has no problem powering bigger speakers. As for quality and sound, that's something for experts and refined users to decide.
Here's a recent review on the bigger brother:

AIYIMA A07 TPA3255 Review (Amplifier)

This is a review and detailed measurements of the AIYIMA A07 desktop amplifier based on TPA3255 class D amplifier chip. It was kindly purchased new by a member and drop shipped to me. The cost is US $72 on Amazon including prime shipping. And as of this shipping, it also included a 32 volt, 5...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Sure, it's not a Mark Levinson power house, but neither is Pyle which always seemed to me like a cheap brand (maybe I'm wrong). The beauty is you have Amazon returns to try and decide for yourself.

 

[psuKinger]

I'm at 5.1. I have no intention of ever growing beyond 5.2.
I have a Marantz MM7055 5-channel external amp. My biggest question might be how much are the pre-outs disconnected from the pre-amp? My Denon x4400h can only "fully disconnect" the front Left Rights by way of tricking it in the Amp Assign Settings (tell it I'm an 11.1 system with 4 height speakers, and toggle until the denon assigns the other channels as pre-outs). Even if I have other speakers on the pre-out (like my center channel), it still runs through the pre-amp, and I believe is causing my problems... do the Anthem pre-outs work similarly?

Anyway, if the 520 is like my 720, both the pre-outs and the speaker level outs are always "hot" near as I can tell.

And I would definitely choose a 520 over the Denon for my ears.

Hi. Thanks for the response and apologies on the delay, but I was wondering if you could elaborate more on what you meant when you said the pre-outs and speaker level outs are "always hot" in relation to my question... does this mean that the pre-outs are not "fully disconnected" from the internal amps? Can a limitation with the internal amplifiers influence the signal sent out via pre-amp?

 

[nathan_h]

In short: pre-outs are not related to the internal amps. They are "pre" the amp stage. So, no, the internal amps don't limit or influence the signal that goes to the pre-outs.*

But your earlier question is good to recall so maybe I should answer it more clearly: As far as I know, the pre-amp and pre-outs on the Anthem cannot be remapped. They are what they are for the main speakers in a 5 speaker setup.

So maybe describe a bit more about the problem you are trying to solve. It's not clear that Anthem will solve it.



*Okay a purist might insist that having the amp in there, even unused, creates some electrical noise that is measurable. That might technically be true but in the real world completely inaudible in my experience.

 

[psuKinger]

In short: pre-outs are not related to the internal amps. They are "pre" the amp stage. So, no, the internal amps don't limit or influence the signal that goes to the pre-outs.*

But your earlier question is good to recall so maybe I should answer it more clearly: As far as I know, the pre-amp and pre-outs on the Anthem cannot be remapped. They are what they are for the main speakers in a 5 speaker setup.

So maybe describe a bit more about the problem you are trying to solve. It's not clear that Anthem will solve it.



*Okay a purist might insist that having the amp in there, even unused, creates some electrical noise that is measurable. That might technically be true but in the real world completely inaudible in my experience.

Proper couch: while I am an engineer, I am not an electrical engineer. And while I am an A/V hobbyist and even enthusiast, I am not an expert.

I've had some trouble with my Denon x4400h. I've done a lot of troubleshooting on it, which I have documented over on the "official Denon 2017" thread, which I will not bore you with. The end result has been that I've convinced myself (and at least one person on that thread I consider to be more wise on such matters than I am) that my Denon has taken some sort of hardware (amplifier) failure.

One thing I learned as part of my troubleshooting was that only two of the 11 pre-outs can be "fully disconnected" from the internal amps of the receiver, such that limits/struggles with the internal amp can influence the signal that goes out the pre-amp? (Source: "OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" /...)

I have a "difficult to drive" center channel which is basically a bookshelf speaker turned on it's side. It's an Ascend Acoustics "center-oriented" Sierra 2EX, with an in-room sensitivity of 86 dB/Wm.

I also have the Ascend Sierra Tower left-right's, with the matching RAAL ribbon tweeter upgrade. These are a much more sensitive 92 dB/Wm. I love them.

My system rounds out with a pair of Ascend HTM-200SE bookshelf rears that are in-between those two extremes (89 dB/Wm), but with poorer low-end performance that often measures a cross-over into my needed at 90 Hz, rather than the more desireable 80 Hz.

Early in my troubleshooting efforts, I purchased a Marantz MM7055 5-channel external amplifier, that's supposed to be a superior power source than the Denon I was struggling with. It's rated to 140 wpc, 2-channels driven, into 8 ohms with 0.08% THD. I believe Audioholics measured capability to provide 108 wpc into all 5 channels (at 8 ohms), which I believe is considerably more capability than the Denon x4400h.

So when I run Audyssey it measures the need for a really big (+6 to +7.5 dB) trim boost on the center channel speaker, and I guess that's not unexpected when the in-room sensitivies the manufacturer reports are 6 dB different... and adding the Marantz external amp wasn't able to help me... the guys over on the Denon thread explained to me that only the Front Left-Right pre-outs can be completely disconnected from the internal amplifiers, so if the center channel amp in the denon is struggling, running the pre-out won't avoid the signal clip.

I'm hoping to get a new receiver that can take greater advantage of the Marantz external amp, rather than getting a new center channel speaker and new home theater furniture ("tv stand"), as the piece I'm currently using has high WAF (even though I'd love to get rid of it...).

 

[RaggedEdge]

Proper couch: while I am an engineer, I am not an electrical engineer. And while I am an A/V hobbyist and even enthusiast, I am not an expert.

I've had some trouble with my Denon x4400h. I've done a lot of troubleshooting on it, which I have documented over on the "official Denon 2017" thread, which I will not bore you with. The end result has been that I've convinced myself (and at least one person on that thread I consider to be more wise on such matters than I am) that my Denon has taken some sort of hardware (amplifier) failure.

One thing I learned as part of my troubleshooting was that only two of the 11 pre-outs can be "fully disconnected" from the internal amps of the receiver, such that limits/struggles with the internal amp can influence the signal that goes out the pre-amp? (Source: "OFFICIAL" 2017 Denon "S-Series" /...)

I have a "difficult to drive" center channel which is basically a bookshelf speaker turned on it's side. It's an Ascend Acoustics "center-oriented" Sierra 2EX, with an in-room sensitivity of 86 dB/Wm.

I also have the Ascend Sierra Tower left-right's, with the matching RAAL ribbon tweeter upgrade. These are a much more sensitive 92 dB/Wm. I love them.

My system rounds out with a pair of Ascend HTM-200SE bookshelf rears that are in-between those two extremes (89 dB/Wm), but with poorer low-end performance that often measures a cross-over into my needed at 90 Hz, rather than the more desireable 80 Hz.

Early in my troubleshooting efforts, I purchased a Marantz MM7055 5-channel external amplifier, that's supposed to be a superior power source than the Denon I was struggling with. It's rated to 140 wpc, 2-channels driven, into 8 ohms with 0.08% THD. I believe Audioholics measured capability to provide 108 wpc into all 5 channels (at 8 ohms), which I believe is considerably more capability than the Denon x4400h.

So when I run Audyssey it measures the need for a really big (+6 to +7.5 dB) trim boost on the center channel speaker, and I guess that's not unexpected when the in-room sensitivies the manufacturer reports are 6 dB different... and adding the Marantz external amp wasn't able to help me... the guys over on the Denon thread explained to me that only the Front Left-Right pre-outs can be completely disconnected from the internal amplifiers, so if the center channel amp in the denon is struggling, running the pre-out won't avoid the signal clip.

I'm hoping to get a new receiver that can take greater advantage of the Marantz external amp, rather than getting a new center channel speaker and new home theater furniture ("tv stand"), as the piece I'm currently using has high WAF (even though I'd love to get rid of it...).

I have almost the same setup, front Sierra Towers and original HTM-200s. I also had furniture issues, so I had Dave make me a custom Sierra Horizon that met my particular dimension needs. Maybe this is something you could do as well?

 

[psuKinger]

I have almost the same setup, front Sierra Towers and original HTM-200s. I also had furniture issues, so I had Dave make me a custom Sierra Horizon that met my particular dimension needs. Maybe this is something you could do as well?

Honestly did not know that was an option/thing.... definitely merits consideration though! Thanks for the pro-tip...

I think my Denon might still be hardware defective, based on my trouble-shooting... and I am still interested in replacing it with an Anthem MRX 540... but that's an awesome little tip right there...

 

[nathan_h]

The internal amp will only struggle if you have stuff connected to the speaker outputs on the AVR or if the AVR is built poorly.

If you are not using the speaker outputs, the ONLY draw on the unit is on the line level outputs, which are using less than a watt.

If the AVR is built poorly, that could be an issue, and apparently some are.

 

[psuKinger]

The internal amp will only struggle if you have stuff connected to the speaker outputs on the AVR or if the AVR is built poorly.

If you are not using the speaker outputs, the ONLY draw on the unit is on the line level outputs, which are using less than a watt.

If the AVR is built poorly, that could be an issue, and apparently some are.

I tried to save a buck, and I bought it "certified refurbished" from Accessories4Less. It started to show signs of a problem ~2 months after the (shorter) "refurb warranty" expired, and by the time I knew I had a big problem, it was 6+ months beyond warranty... lesson learned the hard way I guess. I am typically not a "buy a refurb" guy, I tried it this time, and I think it bit me...

 

[nathan_h]

That sucks. Often refurb have more testing than new units but not always and it doesn't always catch the issue. Accessories 4 less may be worth contacting just in case they feel generous.....

 

[RaggedEdge]

Honestly did not know that was an option/thing.... definitely merits consideration though! Thanks for the pro-tip...

I think my Denon might still be hardware defective, based on my trouble-shooting... and I am still interested in replacing it with an Anthem MRX 540... but that's an awesome little tip right there...

It's what makes these boutique speaker companies so awesome. I spoke to Dave, told him my exact limitations and he custom built a Sierra Horizon that sounds great.

As for the MRX 540, I'm currently using a MRX 300 to drive Sierra Towers, Custom Horizon and HTM-200s. More than enough power for my setup. I'm adding 4 HTM-200s to create a 5.1.4 Atmos system and will be upgrading to the MRX 1140 when it's available.