AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking for a high quality HD camcorder, preferably with hard drive plus SDHC memory, that has 20x optical zoom. Both Sony and Canon (plus JVC, etc) have 12x and 10x zooms....why not 20x? That would look even better with HD.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,738 Posts
A 20X optical zoom would probably be bigger than the camera itself if built with high quality. Canon uses 20X on some prosumer cameras . If you see a 20X on consumer camera anytime soon, chances are quality will be compromized.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,168 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli /forum/post/17015297


A 20X optical zoom would probably be bigger than the camera itself if built with high quality. Canon uses 20X on some prosumer cameras . If you see a 20X on consumer camera anytime soon, chances are quality will be compromized.

I agree with that. You can't have zoom range, and aperture and low distortion all on a humungous expensive lens. So you certainly won't get it on a cheap built-in lens. So I am sure range is sacrificed for a little bit extra quality. Look at the Canon and Nikon dSLR lenses. All the good quality zoom lenses (f/2.8) are only 3x optical. So you need more lenses, that's why they are interchangeable. The cheaper f/3.5-5.6 APS-C sized lenses can do the 12-200 (11x optical).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Interestingly the Canon HF20 has a 15x zoom but only 3.89 mp. In comparison, the HFS100 has 8.59 mp. same is true in Sony line. So i think the theory that the manufacturers are holding back is more true than that the lens would be too big....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,168 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by kocsis /forum/post/17021482


Interestingly the Canon HF20 has a 15x zoom but only 3.89 mp. In comparison, the HFS100 has 8.59 mp. same is true in Sony line. So i think the theory that the manufacturers are holding back is more true than that the lens would be too big....

OK, but what I said is also correct. I would rather a higher quality lens with low zoom range, than a lower quality lens with a higher zoom range. You cannot have both. So leave the 45x optical zooms and 1000x digital zooms on cheap cameras.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,738 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by kocsis /forum/post/17021482


Interestingly the Canon HF20 has a 15x zoom but only 3.89 mp. In comparison, the HFS100 has 8.59 mp. same is true in Sony line. So i think the theory that the manufacturers are holding back is more true than that the lens would be too big....

No manufacturer holds back on anything if they can make it good and cheap. As I said, a good 20 X zoom on existing camcorder with very small sensor would be too expensive and too big. This is a fact, not a theory. Perhaps you are thinking about those small still digital cameras with fantastic zoom and, in this case, let me tell you the quality is not good for HD video.


Standard definition camcorders can have a much larger zoom lens because they only process a fraction of the information necessary to record in high definition.


Look at the size and weight of this lens :

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=17061
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,168 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by donaldk /forum/post/17022016


And the 15X zoom lens was only 12X on the predescessors, that had bigger sensors. The HF-S10 has a bigger sensor so the lens would have to be bigger to get the same zoomrange.

I think if the sensor was larger when the lens was on its widest setting, and cropped when it was on the telephoto setting, that would increase the zoom ratio - but that never happens. I think if the sensor is constant as it always is, the zoom ratio stays the same, no matter how big the sensor is. I could be wrong of course.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by slimoli /forum/post/17022749


No manufacturer holds back on anything if they can make it good and cheap. As I said, a good 20 X zoom on existing camcorder with very small sensor would be too expensive and too big. This is a fact, not a theory. Perhaps you are thinking about those small still digital cameras with fantastic zoom and, in this case, let me tell you the quality is not good for HD video.


Standard definition camcorders can have a much larger zoom lens because they only process a fraction of the information necessary to record in high definition.


Look at the size and weight of this lens :

http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/co...&modelid=17061

I was actually thinking how most cameras have only 1080i yet Sanyo already has 1080p
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,738 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by hsbsitez /forum/post/17023780


I was actually thinking how most cameras have only 1080i yet Sanyo already has 1080p

Different animals. An optical zoom lens is pure glass or plastic (the cheap ones, made in China). There is nothing you can do with better chip or software to create a small, light, high-quality 20X zoom lens.


The Sanyo records in MPEG-4 , not MPEG2 like most consumer camcorders. They did a nice job because it produces a decent picture at a much lower bitrate. I can't give any opinion on the Sanyo but there are reviews that show an inferior picture quality compared to the high-end Canon or Sony. Again, apples and oranges.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Forgive me for my ignorance. But maybe there is a solution in the above....if there is a larger (higher mp) sensor, the digital zoom (which enlarges the image on the sensor, I believe) would actually give you a much better zoom than on a smaller sensor - maybe even equal the quality of the optical zoom, especially in the 12x (optical) to 20x (ie 8x digital) range. Am I on the right track?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by kocsis /forum/post/17026336


if there is a larger (higher mp) sensor, the digital zoom (which enlarges the image on the sensor, I believe) would actually give you a much better zoom than on a smaller sensor - maybe even equal the quality of the optical zoom, especially in the 12x (optical) to 20x (ie 8x digital) range. Am I on the right track?

No, it's the opposite. The bigger the sensor, the bigger the glass you will need.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
373 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by kocsis /forum/post/17026336


Forgive me for my ignorance. But maybe there is a solution in the above....if there is a larger (higher mp) sensor, the digital zoom (which enlarges the image on the sensor, I believe) would actually give you a much better zoom than on a smaller sensor - maybe even equal the quality of the optical zoom, especially in the 12x (optical) to 20x (ie 8x digital) range. Am I on the right track?

Yes. What you see in the HF S10 (and couple of Sony models as well) is that the larger resolution sensors allow you to do some digital zoom with almost no resolution loss. For instance the HF S10 1.7x digital zoom would give you 17x zoom with little resolution loss. You can see some examples on Vimeo.com.


That said a 2nd option is to buy a tele-converter lens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,168 Posts
The 6 megapixel image sensor on a Sony SR12 is actually 4:3 shape. It crops the top and bottom in HD video mode, and crops the top, bottom and both

sides in SD 4:3 mode - actually I don't know if the sr12 has a 4:3 mode, bur other camcorders do it this way including all the way back to the Sony PDX10. The only mode that utilizes the full area of the sensor is the still photo mode. If you need any proof of this, set your camcorder on a tripod, leave it on the same zoom setting and switch between different modes. Notice how photo has more objects in frame. Notice how HD video has the same width, but not the same height. Notice SD video has the same height as HD video, but narrower width is in shot
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
393 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by kocsis /forum/post/17012752


why not 20x? That would look even better with HD.

No, you definitely don't want a 20x optical zoom.

When you see a compact camcorder with that range of zoom lens - it only means one thing.... SMALL SENSOR!


You see humongous zoom range in Standard Definition camcorders - why? Because they have been using progressively smaller and smaller sensors; some of them are truly tiny. And you see the same thing when Canon replaces HF100 with HF200, at the price of increased noise in low light shots.


Don't look for a large zoom range if you want low light image quality.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
Top