Get an exclusive sneak peek into our new project. >>> Click Here
Our native mobile app has a new name: Fora Communities. Learn more.

Any horn for any CD ?

1122 Views 18 Replies 7 Participants Last post by kgveteran, Nov 10, 2010

kgveteran

Discussion Starter · Nov 9, 2010

Just wondering how they mate CD with their horns ?

Can we interchange them.

Can we DIY the horn part ?

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

cdy2179

· #2 · Nov 9, 2010

Horns are either bolted or have a large threaded female end that threads onto a threaded male CD (compression driver). I think bolted is more common overall and popular, especially in CDs larger than 1". They can be swapped and interchanged as long as they are the same size (1 inch horns for 1 inch CDs), you can get adapters to mate a threaded CD to a bolt horn etc, but it has negative effects on the response. YOu also have to take into account the capablility of the horns, small horns generally can't extend as low as larger horns, so the crossover point of the CD can be important.

As for DIY google it. There's threads on building horns and waveguides. I've seen wood and fiberglass used.

A9X-308

· #3 · Nov 9, 2010

Any flare will work with any CD of the same throat diameter and mounting type, but the best results will come when the flare throat entry angle exactly matches the exit angle of the CD mouth so they become one continuous flare.

Yes, you can DIY horns and WG's. I had some large tractrix flares turned up for me some years ago when nothing else was available. There's plenty of info out there for all sorts of flares.

kgveteran

Discussion Starter · #4 · Nov 9, 2010

Is a larger horn and a lower FR of that horn advantageous in a two-way system.....

penngray

· #5 · Nov 9, 2010

Its advantage is that it keeps the woofer from playing to high and beaming or having too much group delay between bottom and top octave. Its nice to keep the XO out of that curcial voicing range, somewhere around 400Hz to 3KHz. Even 900Hz XO is better according to some then having it in the 1000 to 2000Hz range.

The problem with larger horns is that they require larger CDs and the high frequency response will have a drop in directivity, does that matter? I have no idea.

stgdz

· #6 · Nov 9, 2010

wave guides are pretty specific to there cd's irc

ZilchLab

· #7 · Nov 9, 2010

In detail, every driver/horn/waveguide combination behaves differently. You see me swapping them (within limits) routinely. My experience with using generic throat adapters has not been good, so it's thread-on to thread-on and bolt-on to bolt-on, generally.

Though I haven't measured them myself, others have reported driver exit angles varying widely, even within the same brands; that element is a crap shoot.

Bottom line: each combo requires specific attention to crossover frequency, highpass filter, high-frequency compensation, and directivity. All that done, some just "work" better than others....

kgveteran

Discussion Starter · #8 · Nov 10, 2010

So, can we generalize and say bigger is better. I'm a little challenged in this horn area.

Kg

ZilchLab

· #9 · Nov 10, 2010

3

Nope, depends on the application:

http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...d.php?t=219975

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post19241117

See less See more

kgveteran

Discussion Starter · #10 · Nov 10, 2010

So, would it be safe to say I could tailor a horn for my seating area and distance from screen to LP ?

ZilchLab

· #11 · Nov 10, 2010

"Tailor" as in DIY the horn itself?

1) Why? There are plenty of available modern waveguides.

2) Not without major design chops -- it's hard to match, let alone beat, what's already available from the pros.

3) There's not likely anything so unique about any particular seating area or listening distance as to require a "custom" waveguide....

Scott Simonian

· #12 · Nov 10, 2010

Moving away from the 4pi stuff, KG?

kgveteran

Discussion Starter · #13 · Nov 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZilchLab /forum/post/19466047

"Tailor" as in DIY the horn itself?

1) Why? There are plenty of available modern waveguides.

2) Not without major design chops -- it's hard to match, let alone beat, what's already available from the pros.

3) There's not likely anything so unique about any particular seating area or listening distance as to require a "custom" waveguide....

Nope, just rethinking the design a little....

kgveteran

Discussion Starter · #14 · Nov 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian /forum/post/19466158

Moving away from the 4pi stuff, KG?

Just looking around and trying to wrap my head around the dispersion factors of large and small horns, and their XO points.

I really like the auto pilot program of building a kit, but since I have some time and I seem to have what looks like the hardest find ( the 2226H ) done, I mite as well be sure my new build is a good fit.

I'm sure I'll have a bunch more questions about this as we go. I'm really afraid of an out board XO like the 2496. There would be so much guess work with a project that hasn't been done yet.

What is really bothering me is the toe in that everyone talks about and how best case would have them cross infront of the listener. I understand nothing is iron clad and I can easily mount them on my shelf and be happy, but I'm still puzzled by the the opinions of how horns need to be setup.

So, wts....onward and upward.........

See less See more

A9X-308

· #15 · Nov 10, 2010

^^^ Zilch, looking at the pics of some of the vary large theatre arrays which are intended to be used in the large space and long listening distance of a large theatre, I cannot see how they would integrate well at the much shorter listening distance of a HT, especially with the tall one's where at home, you will be far off the intended listening axis. Horses for courses.

kgveteran

Discussion Starter · #16 · Nov 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by A9X-308 /forum/post/19466207

^^^ Zilch, looking at the pics of some of the vary large theatre arrays which are intended to be used in the large space and long listening distance of a large theatre, I cannot see how they would integrate well at the much shorter listening distance of a HT, especially with the tall one's where at home, you will be far off the intended listening axis. Horses for courses.

This too

See less See more

Scott Simonian

· #17 · Nov 10, 2010

3

The toe-in could also be inherent of Wayne's x-over design along with the nature of the horn's dispersion. It's hard to say for sure but most of that anecdotal advice (regarding the toe-in) is also nearly all while doing stereo music playback and not with 3 channels up front doing regular HT duty. It may not be the case at all when you have an actual center channel anchoring the soundstage instead of a phantom created by the left and right. This is all purely speculation on my part but it is educated speculation, I guess. I mean, I read up as much as I can. Not just pulling it out of thin air.

Heheh.

I wouldn't rule out something like the DCX just yet. May offer more flexibility to custom tailor something just right for you and your room. I can't wait to play around with mine!

See less See more

ZilchLab

· #18 · Nov 10, 2010

Quote:
Originally Posted by kgveteran /forum/post/19466214

This too

This not, actually, so long at the center to center distance with the woofer and crossover frequency combine to generate a reasonable-height forward lobe. Watch Wayne's video for more about this subject:

http://www.pispeakers.com/misc/Vertical_Nulls.wmv

The extreme toe-in thing is about maximizing the image rendition zone in 2-channel phantom. JBL built asymmetric horns designed by Keele to do that better with minimal toe-in. See Everest I, S2600, and S3100 on LHF, also in my "Quick & Dirty" thread over there....

http://www.audioheritage.org/vbullet...ents&highlight

See less See more

kgveteran

Discussion Starter · #19 · Nov 10, 2010

Great point Scott. Having a center channel would negate that toe in...hmmmm

All this is food for thought as I have no wood to cut nor boards to glue.......

Kg

Do you guys measure a lot when dialing in a crossover like the 2496 ?

See less See more

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.