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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
On February 28, 2001 Sony had announced that they would be releasing the

first firewire (IEEE-1394) firewire sets in the fall. They gave a model

# KD-34XBR2. They said they would be available in the fall 2001. I

never heard anything since. Could you provide me with any further

information on when these sets may be released. I would appreciate any

help.


Thank you,


Scott G.
 

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Scott,


The KD-34XBR2s are just hitting the streets. I've got confirmation that Tweeter(formerly DOW Stereo) has received two of the KD-34XBR2s in their warehouse here in San Diego. I've purchased mine through Convoy Audio/Video and they expect delivery any day now.


I tried to get advanced info from Sony via techsupport but they hadn't received a release date for any of the new HDTVs. The only preliminary info they could give me pertained to the 40XBR700s(40" 4:3) which are to be released in August.


I'll keep you posted.


-Mecha
 

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WHO CARES? Are you going to appease the copy protection nazis by buying one of these sets? ANYONE that helps the MPAA Gestapo to shove copy protection down our throats is the enemy!


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Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C
 

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Vic: What would you have them do? Not buy any set? Buy a set that only can accept analog inputs even it they are not the standard in 2 or 3 years. I sorry that just will not work. I have been in the computer business for over 20 years and we have this copy protection battle over and over. With all good things come some bad. We have many technological advancements at our finger tips that only a few years NO ONE would have thought possible. One of those is the internet. It is allowing us to communicate (this message in fact) and learn. That is great. But there are those that propose to use it in ways that are bad and take away freedoms from all of us. This is why no mater if we like it or not there will be SOME form of copy protection in HDTV.


You sign you posts with: STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C. Well this TV does not have two of the three,in fact they appear to be dead at this time. Of the three 5C is the least intrusive. If we have to have something that we all do not want I hope we will support the least problematic one. At least he is supporting HDTV and that is a good thing.


I can not wait to hear about the TV!!!



Todd
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ToddD:
Vic: What would you have them do? Not buy any set? Buy a set that only can accept analog inputs even it they are not the standard in 2 or 3 years. I sorry that just will not work.
What people don't seem to understand is that WE have the power to make or break any standard. If nobody buys these firewire TV's and STB's they have to give us what we want. They just can't afford to make equipment to sit in a warehouse collecting dust. They have to give WHAT THE CUSTOMER WANTS. It's that simple.

Quote:
Originally posted by ToddD:
Of the three 5C is the least intrusive. If we have to have something that we all do not want I hope we will support the least problematic one.
You see, that's where you're wrong. We don't HAVE to accept any of them. WE have the money and therefore THE POWER. It's sad that people can't see the forest for the trees. There are bigger issues at stake here than just HDTV.


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Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C
 

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Quote:
We don't HAVE to accept any of them. WE have the money and therefore THE POWER.
Vic,

You keep saying "we" but if you mean the early adopter, I don't think they (MPAA) care about the early adopter. They look at the sales and think the numbers are miniscule. Then the manufacturers give in because the target would be ones who haven't bought any sets which potentially number in the millions. Don't get me wrong because I'm with you on this one. I avoid the Wiz and normally shop at PC Richard, Sears or Radio Shack. I hope the firewire parties are wrong in assuming this will jumpstart mass adoption but if not, it doesn't mean we didn't fight. It just means we are inconsequential. The uninitiated Joe Blow is mostly who they'll cater and market this to.


Ben

 

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Please, please, please stop equating Firewire and 5C copy protection as if they were the same thing. They are not. Firewire is a digital transport mechanism, and will be a great way to interconnect all of your equipment within a single cable LAN. Check out the HAVI specs if you get a moment. 5C copy protection is a separate layer on top of this but is not required for IEE-1394 to function and it should not be implied that a Firewire connection means a copy protected connection.


Tony
 

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Please, please, please STOP BEING SO NAIVE! Do you really think that they would go to so much trouble trying to introduce firewire, including ticking off over a million existing HDTV owners, if they didn't intend to implement copy protection with it? Please come join us in the real world! Once the firewire equipment is in place (i.e. in consumers' hands) there is NOTHING to prevent them from flipping the switch on ANY and ALL content if they want. They've been looking for a way to do this ever since the Supreme Court's Betamax decision, and now we're just so willing to give it to them! We're acting like sheep flocking to the slaughterhouse. Please WAKE UP, PEOPLE!


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Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C


[This message has been edited by vruiz (edited 07-16-2001).]
 

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Interesting discussion...so how will this thing play out? Here's what I think will occur starting with Cablevision in our area. [Speculation mode on] They'll disable current HD feeds of HBO, MSG, FSNY in Long Island. They'll deploy the new Sony cable box. They'll market the said programming (and maybe more) to NY, NJ and CT subscribers as incentive to purchase the firewire TVs. The cable box may or may not have HD component outputs to connect to legacy sets for viewing only (the key is "may not"). A firewire VCR is needed in order to record HD. And they still have the ability to block recording using encryption. You can still

record in downconverted low res analog format.[speculation mode off]


Ben

 

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Quote:
Originally posted by chingko:
The uninitiated Joe Blow is mostly who they'll cater and market this to.


The uninitiated Joe Blow isn't going to know what any of this stuff is in the first place. IMO "he" will just look for the best TV at the lowest price. If it has some doo-hickey on it that says "firewire" he probably won't know what it is and may never use it unless his cable company forces him to.
 

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Quote:
Ben, what have you got against Cable Vision and the Wiz. ?
Nothing, they're a really nice company ... heheh. I watch their team the Knicks on TV all the time. They're making bonehead moves though (Weatherspoon?) and the Nets will probably overtake them soon with the four Ks.


Here's what they're doing. The Wiz demos HD MSG sports and yet only available by accident to some LI subscribers. CV is partnering with Sony to deploy new firewire cable boxes.

Sony has also announced new firewire TVs. As HTnut says this could result in obsolescense. And as dlsnyder says, clueless Joe Blow will buy whatever the Wiz can sales talk him into which could trigger mass adoption. Will this lead to plunging prices? I don't know. Anyway, I took the liberty of running a search for you and came up with these recent threads. Enjoy!

Cablevision and No Response on Firewire
Firewire Input
DTV manufacturers to implement IEEE 1394



Ben
 

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Quote:
The cable box may or may not have HD component outputs to connect to legacy sets for viewing only (the key is "may not"). A firewire VCR is needed in order to record HD. And they still have the ability to block recording using encryption.
If the Cablevision HD boxes do not have HD component outputs there may be some interesting reaction when they negotiate to carry CBS or PBS HD signals.


At that time the public and Congress will become aware that they are effectively copy protecting material that is otherwise free OTA broadcasts. Things should more or less hit the fan then.


- Tom


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Getting started:
HTPC FAQ , DScaler , Xcel's Links , and
What's Wrong with Copy Protection .
 

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This is simple. They will enable 5C copy protection in the set top box if it detects that the signal is being routed to a digital recorder (VCR, DVD,..whatever). The 5C copy protection will be disabled and the complete HDTV signal will be displayed to the digital display device when the set top box detects that the signal is being routed to a digital device that does not have digital recording ability. None of the "older" HDTV ready sets are labled as being able to record so why worry. The key word here is "copy" protection.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.
 

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David,


The problem is that the Cablevision Sony box, as demo'ed at CES and described by two different Cablevision VPs (who are testing the box), only has a 1394 connector for HDTV. This means that a legacy TV owner with component and RGBHV connections won't even have a way to hook it up.


Many folks here, especially those who purchased their legacy TVs from the Wiz, have complained loudly about this oversight. I guess we'll see when they start the rollout whether the complaints were heard.
 

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Ongoing thread in the programming forum www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum20/HTML/003570.html which contains a link to a report about Sony and copy protection... again!


Below I believe are some salient points from the article.

"Sony and Warner Bros. to open vast libraries in exchange for copy control"

"The agreement covers only content carried over cable systems "

"Electronics makers argue there is no point in mass-producing digital TV sets if Hollywood isn't willing to offer top programming."

"Broadcasters say they will be crippled if over-the-air programming isn't protected. A content provider will turn exclusively to cablers, leaving broadcasters out of the mix."


Ben
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by GregQuinn:
I really don't think this is good advice
I would never ask anyone to do anything that I wasn't willing to do myself. I am not rich. I only make about 40k a year, so my HDTV and FPTV represent a good chunk of my budget. But there is a much bigger issue than a few thousand dollars. This is about them controlling what you see, how you see it, when you see it , and how many times you see it. Talk about Big Brother here. I can't believe so many people are willing to just accept this!


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Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by BenBroder:
As an owner of a Pioneer Elite 610HD, I'd encourage other people with this series to push Pioneer to commit to a "promise module" for the slot in our TVs, too.
I too own a Pioneer 610HD and while I will fight against any form of copy protection, it would be nice to know that Pioneer can (if they have to)provide a solution via the back slot for continued compatibility.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by vruiz:
This is about them controlling what you see, how you see it, when you see it , and how many times you see it. Talk about Big Brother here. I can't believe so many people are willing to just accept this!
Vic, you are making this sound like a free speech issue, when it is really more of an intellectual property issue. The studios spends many millions of dollars paying writers, actors, set designers, directors, etc., to produce each movie. Their payback is based on how you see it, when you see it, and how many times you see it. Do you pay $8 a person to see it in the theater? Or $5.99 for your family to watch it on HD PPV? Perhaps a portion of your $12/month HBO subscription? Perhaps you spend $30 for the DVD? Perhaps you'll see it on broadcast TV. Bottom line is that by controlling the how and when, they try to maximize return on their investment. What would happen if soon after the theatrical release, a perfect HD copy was available via the Internet? How would that impact the demand for the movie on DVD or through other outlets?


I'm not in favor of copy protection, but after seeing Napster, I can't blame the studios for demanding it.

 

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It would be an intellectual property issue if all they were after was multiple recording of the digital signals. That's not what's happening here. They are trying to prevent you from even viewing the content (unless it's on their terms) even after you've paid for it (either via cable/satellite subscription or PPV fee). The Supreme Court already established the public's right to record TV signals for personal use. It is no secret that the studios never agreed with that decision and have always looked for a way to get around it. Well, thanks to our friends in Congress who passed the DMCA in 1998, they now have it. Don't you love it when you can see your tax dollars work for you?


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Vic Ruiz
STOP HDCP/DFAST/5C
 
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