Any stability difference between CUSL2 and TUSL2?
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Hi Jym and Jeff:
___The TUSL2 just recently became a good choice w/ voltage control adjustments via the latest Bios’ but are still a bit untried at this point … I would guess they have the same stability now but I have only had the TUSL2’s in my hands for days at a time whereas the CUSL2’s have been in the family for over than a year now. If you were considering stability in comparison to any including the latest AMD 760(1)/SiS(735)/VIA KT133-266A based chipset, you are much farther ahead than any of those currently.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___ [email protected]
___The TUSL2 just recently became a good choice w/ voltage control adjustments via the latest Bios’ but are still a bit untried at this point … I would guess they have the same stability now but I have only had the TUSL2’s in my hands for days at a time whereas the CUSL2’s have been in the family for over than a year now. If you were considering stability in comparison to any including the latest AMD 760(1)/SiS(735)/VIA KT133-266A based chipset, you are much farther ahead than any of those currently.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___ [email protected]
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Well, I beg to differ on that stability comment, the AMD 760 stability cannot be exceeded. I have AMD 760 systems with Win2K running all kinds of software and the latest games, which haven't rebooted for over 47 days, and even back then it was only due to a critical security update.
It's nearly impossible to justify the cost of an Intel-based system at the moment, since an AthlonXP 1800+ (1.53 GHz that performs better than a P4-2.0 GHz) is about the price of a P3-1GHz. DDR RAM is no more expensive than PC133 now.
KC
It's nearly impossible to justify the cost of an Intel-based system at the moment, since an AthlonXP 1800+ (1.53 GHz that performs better than a P4-2.0 GHz) is about the price of a P3-1GHz. DDR RAM is no more expensive than PC133 now.
KC
Hi KC:
___Having an HTPC up for 47 days means you simply haven’t changed out a driver in that long … There is a well respected HTPC’er right here in our forum that had a 98 SE/Intel inside based HTPC up and running for over 60 days himself. Stability is not simply about running for months without a reboot and especially under NT/2000/XP as any of our Intel inside solutions will accomplish this as well. Stability in terms of an HTPC means stutter free performance after tens of DVD playbacks, hours of OTA HD recordings, and even some DScaler use in between. This is where an Intel inside solution built off the best HW in the business will easily outperform stability wise the AMD inside on any and all platforms to date. You know why Anand chose an MSI based KT133 board for one of his servers a earlier this year? It was the most stable AMD CPU based boards he had available at the time. Guess what happened to that server after a few months? The board began to act up and he had a trip back to Pittsburg for repair/replacement. I am sure you have read the VIA/AMD/SiS stability issues from the big reviewers time and again … The Intel Inside solutions including the underperforming 845’s have the highest stability given any CPU/chipset to date without question across a number of different SW uses. Except for driver change-outs or multiple OS compatibility testing, I don’t reboot my CUSL2 based 700E @933 HTPC under XP Pro either. It runs UD Agent at 100% CPU utilization and has for over 6 months now yet cannot be heard given the quiet cooling solutions made available to me currently. My AMD based systems are not quite so fortunate in that even with Silverado’s and Alpha 8045’s, the internal case temps are to high for extremely quiet thermal removal solutions (noisy PS’s once they spin up because of heat build up) that I have found so far.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___ [email protected]
___Having an HTPC up for 47 days means you simply haven’t changed out a driver in that long … There is a well respected HTPC’er right here in our forum that had a 98 SE/Intel inside based HTPC up and running for over 60 days himself. Stability is not simply about running for months without a reboot and especially under NT/2000/XP as any of our Intel inside solutions will accomplish this as well. Stability in terms of an HTPC means stutter free performance after tens of DVD playbacks, hours of OTA HD recordings, and even some DScaler use in between. This is where an Intel inside solution built off the best HW in the business will easily outperform stability wise the AMD inside on any and all platforms to date. You know why Anand chose an MSI based KT133 board for one of his servers a earlier this year? It was the most stable AMD CPU based boards he had available at the time. Guess what happened to that server after a few months? The board began to act up and he had a trip back to Pittsburg for repair/replacement. I am sure you have read the VIA/AMD/SiS stability issues from the big reviewers time and again … The Intel Inside solutions including the underperforming 845’s have the highest stability given any CPU/chipset to date without question across a number of different SW uses. Except for driver change-outs or multiple OS compatibility testing, I don’t reboot my CUSL2 based 700E @933 HTPC under XP Pro either. It runs UD Agent at 100% CPU utilization and has for over 6 months now yet cannot be heard given the quiet cooling solutions made available to me currently. My AMD based systems are not quite so fortunate in that even with Silverado’s and Alpha 8045’s, the internal case temps are to high for extremely quiet thermal removal solutions (noisy PS’s once they spin up because of heat build up) that I have found so far.
___Good Luck
___Wayne R. Gerdes
___Hunt Club Farms Landscaping Ltd.
___ [email protected]
This is specifically why I like intel sytems. Truth be known, I have little experience with anything else. At the least, here is a quote of dealing with these issues, from another thread.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The arena of A/V design has yet to reach out and touch HTPC and Computer design, simply because an exclusive design standpoint is not easily reached in this arena. Basically stated, the architecture is virtually open to outright intellectual theft. This is the way it has evolved.
In the computer arena, jitter has NEVER been an issue.. but it should be with the current speeds now being realized. They would function in a much more reliable and qualitive way if such issues were properly addressed.
High quality clocking systems can be very expensive. So, this would put them out of the area of standard computer fare.
In HTPC's, the integration and behavior of the soundcard is intimately tied to the behavior of the DVD software. If error correction of the sound card's clock was properly addressed, we MIGHT notice a increase in quality, but it would be minor, due to the fact that the wait states, bus handling, different components on the bus, clock dividers, different component response times..and the overall number of pieces of software,and hardware accessing the systems..as integrated systems themselves...WELL!! This certainly removes much of the effects of proper soundcard clock handling. It would have to be a WHOLE system addressing of the situation,and this is very, very unlikely to happen on a low priced, easily upgradable platform, due to the fact that new parts can be introduced.
The entire system as it works is merely due the delays, wait states, dividers, etc that are fundamental parts of the hardware level bus usage and control system. Without such measures, almost NO computer or HTPC would function at all period.
Engineers of digital hardware, in the computer front do NOT in any way consider these things to be an issue. Hiccuppy behavior is part and parcel of the computer as a working system.
When the very, very sensitive to timing issues human hearing and visual mechanism are engaged with a video image from a HTPC, these problems rear their ugly head. Most people attack this situation with high speed systems, to keep the internal 'wait states' and 'delays' down to a minimum, so as to keep the hiccuping as minimally noticeable as possible. I address it as clocking/bus handling/wait state issues,and have put together a few systems that are considered very slow..but have little in the way of intermittent timing issues.
basically, I have addressed the issue with 64 meg video cards, and messing with the bus handling, and achieved smoothness with 500mhz Celeron (563hz, a 500A running at 75Mhz). The 64 Meg video card as a frame buffer turns out to be essential, if the CPU speed is near the edge, which tells you something, at the very least.
Any way, I have drifted off course on the situation at hand. Better clocking.
Not seen as an issue at all, in the computer arena. Very much so,and properly at that, seen in the AUDIO industry as an issue. So, it might be fun to create better clocks for the HTPC, but the effect of such would be largely lost due to the fact that such disparate pieces of hardware from so many different vendors have to get along in the same box.
Almost a waste of time,unless it is a custom system, but then...it's no longer upgradable or open.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The arena of A/V design has yet to reach out and touch HTPC and Computer design, simply because an exclusive design standpoint is not easily reached in this arena. Basically stated, the architecture is virtually open to outright intellectual theft. This is the way it has evolved.
In the computer arena, jitter has NEVER been an issue.. but it should be with the current speeds now being realized. They would function in a much more reliable and qualitive way if such issues were properly addressed.
High quality clocking systems can be very expensive. So, this would put them out of the area of standard computer fare.
In HTPC's, the integration and behavior of the soundcard is intimately tied to the behavior of the DVD software. If error correction of the sound card's clock was properly addressed, we MIGHT notice a increase in quality, but it would be minor, due to the fact that the wait states, bus handling, different components on the bus, clock dividers, different component response times..and the overall number of pieces of software,and hardware accessing the systems..as integrated systems themselves...WELL!! This certainly removes much of the effects of proper soundcard clock handling. It would have to be a WHOLE system addressing of the situation,and this is very, very unlikely to happen on a low priced, easily upgradable platform, due to the fact that new parts can be introduced.
The entire system as it works is merely due the delays, wait states, dividers, etc that are fundamental parts of the hardware level bus usage and control system. Without such measures, almost NO computer or HTPC would function at all period.
Engineers of digital hardware, in the computer front do NOT in any way consider these things to be an issue. Hiccuppy behavior is part and parcel of the computer as a working system.
When the very, very sensitive to timing issues human hearing and visual mechanism are engaged with a video image from a HTPC, these problems rear their ugly head. Most people attack this situation with high speed systems, to keep the internal 'wait states' and 'delays' down to a minimum, so as to keep the hiccuping as minimally noticeable as possible. I address it as clocking/bus handling/wait state issues,and have put together a few systems that are considered very slow..but have little in the way of intermittent timing issues.
basically, I have addressed the issue with 64 meg video cards, and messing with the bus handling, and achieved smoothness with 500mhz Celeron (563hz, a 500A running at 75Mhz). The 64 Meg video card as a frame buffer turns out to be essential, if the CPU speed is near the edge, which tells you something, at the very least.
Any way, I have drifted off course on the situation at hand. Better clocking.
Not seen as an issue at all, in the computer arena. Very much so,and properly at that, seen in the AUDIO industry as an issue. So, it might be fun to create better clocks for the HTPC, but the effect of such would be largely lost due to the fact that such disparate pieces of hardware from so many different vendors have to get along in the same box.
Almost a waste of time,unless it is a custom system, but then...it's no longer upgradable or open.
wayne,
ive been pretty much in the intel camp for a long time but have been considering athlon board because of the price/performance advantages. can i get your opinions on the heat dissapation from the new XP chips as compared to the socket 478 P4s? A noisy massive heatsink/fan are not something i want for a quiet htpc.
thanks
rick
ive been pretty much in the intel camp for a long time but have been considering athlon board because of the price/performance advantages. can i get your opinions on the heat dissapation from the new XP chips as compared to the socket 478 P4s? A noisy massive heatsink/fan are not something i want for a quiet htpc.
thanks
rick
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