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Discussion Starter · #1 ·

Hey guys, im trying to get my projector setup and all i need now is a screen or my wall painted.  Right now i just have plain drywall and the picture still looks amazing but im thinking painting my help alot as well.  I was going to buy a screen but all i can find is around 5000$ for the type i need.

 

I run a 2:39.1 screen size at 227inches, My projector is in the basement and its a dark room so lights not a problem.  Any suggestions on the type of paint to get? Dulux Icestorm #5 i heard is good? any suggestions/links will be greatly appreciated!
 

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MM will probably have to chime in since he is more familiar with European paints, but you will need to provide details about the projector and throw distance to the screen in order to make an informed suggestion about paint.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahajr143  /t/1522567/any-suggestions-links-for-painting-a-wall-like-mine#post_24483303


MM will probably have to chime in since he is more familiar with European paints, but you will need to provide details about the projector and throw distance to the screen in order to make an informed suggestion about paint.
Thanks! The throw distance is around 11-12 foot, i use the Benq W1080 Short Throw Projector.  I also plan on using 3D Alot im not sure if this will matter much.  thanks in advance!
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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It is for certain that no stock Dulux paint will approximate the performance of an $5000.00 screen (typo?) which would seem to indicate the need for a high gain / high contrast screen.


And yes....the use of 3D absolutely requires as much retention of gain / lumen output / foot labert levels as possible, so all of that is tied to screen size and the amount of ambient light present, and / or reflected light from adjoining surfaces.


In this case, the sheer immensity of the screen's size and the lumen level of the BenQ determines that the "$5k for a Screen" figure is probably legitimate.


The need for a advanced Paint formula containing metallic and translucent properties, applied via spraying on top of a smooth, pure white surface is going to be the only viable alternative for any degree of performance comparable to a DNP or SI variety screen. You can believe this....if any "out of one Can" commercially available "Store bought" Paint could do such, this Forum would revolve solely around that paint.


Instead...............
Well, just about everybody knows what DIY paint solution holds that position.


(Haters...start'cher hatin'
)


Even then...the size screen you desire requires specific logistical consideration that must be taken into account. It's not going to be a easy do by any stretch.


Knowing the Country you reside in is as important as any other facts provided.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

hey thanks very much for your response.  I have it setup in the basement which only has 2 windows at the VERY far end of the basement. The windows are not close to my projector so i really dont have any light down there if i have lights off.  I can keep the room almost perfectly dark, i live in Ohio, USA.  I can use drywall at daytime and it looks great not light hits my screen at all, but i figured atleast some decent paint would make the picture look beter.

 

if my basement is really dark is their no need to buy a special paint or screen? thanks again
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·

whats a decent resolution for 3D? and what type of paint should i get? Black? White? Right now all i have is plain white drywall
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yabizar  /t/1522567/any-suggestions-links-for-painting-a-wall-like-mine#post_24491196


whats a decent resolution for 3D? and what type of paint should i get? Black? White? Right now all i have is plain white drywall

Any 3D worth watching will be in what is called Full HD 3D. The BenQ w1080st is a 1080p Projector. Are you certain as to what your trying to ask about?


Also, unless you are willing to accept advice and suggestions out of hand, it's obvious you need to do at least a cursory study of advanced DIY Screen applications such as Silver Fire and RS-MaxxMudd


Honestly speaking, in your postings a read of someone who has acquired a inexpensive PJ, and zoomed it's image out about a large as possible in his situation....and now wants to improve / optimize his image. Would that by simply applying a Basic White paint to the wall be sufficient...that would certainly be nice.


But reality sets in when you discuss 3D and a screen size of / in excess of 200" diagonal. As I stated before, if a dynamic, HD image is desired, you'll have to stepup your game and do what is necessary to achieve such.


If such is your goal, then the best choice for you would be RS-MaxxMudd LL. If your proficient with a Roller, you could accomplish the chore, but I would strongly advise that you use a 18" Roller...and between the Roller assembly and large Pan, and the necessary roller covers, your going to spend every bit as much as you would if you got a Graco HVLP 2900 from Lowes and sprayed the surface, but you won't have nearly as easy job or the confidence of achieving decent results.. This is because rolling any advanced, highly reflective paint runs serious risk of creating obvious roller marks. Proficiency in using a large Roller can mitigate those risks, but frankly, few have that skill set.


So look at the RS-MaxxMudd thread. Examine the posts others have authored, as well as my own efforts which have numerous examples of spraying instructions.


Brook no doubts, we all are both willing and glad to assist you toward reaching your desired goal, but for you to actually make it possible, specific requirements must be considered and instructions followed, or all you can really do instead is to paint your wall with a bright white paint and hope for the best.
 

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Not sure what your budget is, but for a screen that size in 3D, you need all the help you can get. You will probably find the image unacceptably dim in 3D at that size with a paint solution and may want to look into Da-Lite High Power 2.4 gain -- but I'm not sure you'd be able to find one in that size. Can't you come down in size?


The recommended RSMMLL is only going to give you a little bit more gain than a regular white paint, and then only in the middle of the screen -- on the left and right thirds (or so) of the screen it will actually be darker than regular white paint.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·

what if i did like 180 inches? would this help me out alot? thanks for everyone responding!  The reason i am on such a tight budget is due to me just buying this house... i also just spent money on rebuilding the kitechen walls/floors and all that so i really am putting my house first.  I just figured painting some dry wall would help but wasnt sure what type of color and what type of paint. Im really not worried about having a 100% awsome picture (though it would be nice).  But so far i have not tested the 3d, but the picture on the drywall i am 100% happy with, my 3d glasses should be here 2morrow.  

 

So what would be my best bet as far as a screen with these options.

 

Option #1- Paint the drywall White

Option #2- Paint the drywall Black

Option #3- Paint the drywall with special paint? (Around 100-200$ is all i would be willing to spend)

 

 

sorry guys im on a budget and am just looking for the cheapest route rather then just having the plain drywall.  Im happy with just drywall as is right now. Just figured some paint would help out a little
 

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180" will certainly help, but in 3D, once those glasses go on, your going to realize the validity of the cautionary statements you have received.


The comment above about RS-MaxxMudd is not only false, it's based on a older version of the mix whose application must be considered as being subject to the variance of how well it was applied, and perhaps more importantly...it is the opinion of only a single person out of all the many dozens of different and more appreciative comments posted, and comes more as a rebuttal than anything else. You can look through every known thread on RS-MaxxMudd LL and you will not find any mention of a viable difference in gain between the center and edges of the screen.** That makes is easy enough to put any such contradictory comments in their respective place.**The very nature of the current "LL" formula precludes the possibility of such.


As far as gain, yes...you could use a White Satin paint and achieve about the same level of gain as RS-MaxxMudd LL, but you would the experience exactly what was stated by curttard, only worse....even grossly more so if such was rolled on. RS-MaxxMudd LL contains both Silver and Pearlescent additives, that when combined with a Matte Ployurethane base and UPW delivers the superior performance over anything either white or gray alone. When rolling it can require a ultra light sanding after drying to reduce the potential for excessive sheen that the roller pressure can produce. Sprayed on properly and the is virtually no chance of such happening.

Option #1- Paint the drywall White Not gonna do it for ya.....
Option #2- Paint the drywall Black Not even a option in the remotest sense....

Option #3- Paint the drywall with special paint? (Around 100-200$ is all i would be willing to spend) You can do what you need to do at that budget level and with a 180" screen. Even via spraying, which actually would be the only way to go about it with any real degree of assurance of success. At the very most you might overshoot that budget by $25-30.00, but that is simply due to your own size requirements. In every real sense of meaning, your painting an entire wall, not a "Screen", and you will need multiple coats, so the amount of paint needed is the only real consideration (1 Gallon minimum)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan  /t/1522567/any-suggestions-links-for-painting-a-wall-like-mine#post_24493628


180" will certainly help, but in 3D, once those glasses go on, your going to realize the validity of the cautionary statements you have received.


The comment above about RS-MaxxMudd is not only false, it's based on a older version of the mix whose application must be considered as being subject to the variance of how well it was applied, and perhaps more importantly...it is the opinion of only a single person out of all the many dozens of different and more appreciative comments posted, and comes more as a rebuttal than anything else. You can look through every known thread on RS-MaxxMudd LL and you will not find any mention of a viable difference in gain between the center and edges of the screen.** That makes is easy enough to put any such contradictory comments in their respective place.

**The very nature of the current "LL" formula precludes the possibility of such.


As far as gain, yes...you could use a White Satin paint and achieve about the same level of gain as RS-MaxxMudd LL, but you would the experience exactly what was stated by curttard, only worse....even grossly more so if such was rolled on. RS-MaxxMudd LL contains both Silver and Pearlescent additives, that when combined with a Matte Ployurethane base and UPW delivers the superior performance over anything either white or gray alone. When rolling it can require a ultra light sanding after drying to reduce the potential for excessive sheen that the roller pressure can produce. Sprayed on properly and the is virtually no chance of such happening.

Option #1- Paint the drywall White Not gonna do it for ya.....

Option #2- Paint the drywall Black Not even a option in the remotest sense....

Option #3- Paint the drywall with special paint? (Around 100-200$ is all i would be willing to spend) You can do what you need to do at that budget level and with a 180" screen. Even via spraying, which actually would be the only way to go about it with any real degree of assurance of success. At the very most you might overshoot that budget by $25-30.00, but that is simply due to your own size requirements. In every real sense of meaning, your painting an entire wall, not a "Screen", and you will need multiple coats, so the amount of paint needed is the only real consideration (1 Gallon minimum)
got ya! thanks a ton man! i really appreciate it!! Do you have any links to good sites to buy the mixes i need to make this paint? it would be greatly appreciated!
 

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OP, if you don't mind, if you go the RSMMLL route, it would help the forum if you also did a panel with a regular off the shelf paint -- you can get a quart of Glidden GLN9000 for $10 at Home Depot, or you can probably get a sample-size for $3 -- and compare it with your finished RSMMLL screen at various points around the screen. I seem to be the only one who has done so and our friend Mississippi is always quick to dismiss my findings as "the opinion of one person". In fact, I will be happy to send you a pre-painted panel that you can do the comparison with if you PM me your address. I will be interested to see if the supposedly improved version of RSMMLL performs better than the older one I used.


My own comparison showed the custom paint to be extremely similar in results to off the shelf white paint, and certainly nearly or entirely indistinguishable in the majority of image content, in addition to being dramatically more expensive and being much more finicky in its application (itself possibly requiring a greater expense in equipment). It is noticeably brighter than the white paint in the center of the screen but dimmer than the white off-center. I noticed no improvement in blacks (they were brighter than the white paint's where the RSMMLL itself was brighter, and darker than the white paint's off-center where the RSMMLL was dimmer) or even in ambient light performance.
Quote:
You can look through every known thread on RS-MaxxMudd LL and you will not find any mention of a viable difference in gain between the center and edges of the screen.**

It's definitely not something that you're likely to notice with a regular movie image -- but then, neither is any brightness (or any other theoretical) advantage of the RSMMLL. As with that brightness advantage, the non-uniformity is only really noticeable in direct comparisons. Sitting at the center seating position, a regular white panel in the center of the RSMMLL screen will be dimmer. But if you move that panel left or right, it will get brighter in comparison from your seating position, until it is actually the brighter of the two.
 

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Quote:
Also, what are the actual dimensions of the screen you want, i.e. width by height? Does it have to be that big?

Now what do you think? Do you suppose it just might be that the poster wants a screen that big? Sheesh, What a question to ask.

It is as if you didn't bother to read any part of this thread except the part that you wanted to disagree with. That is of course exactly the case at hand.


Your comments on this thread are both unwarranted and almost assuredly unwelcome. You are obviously trolling around, looking for any posted effort that pertains to this mix so that you can simply express your opinion and run interference with any suggestions and advice that is given. The only place that that it would be proper to do so is in your own dedicated thread on the subject. That way, anybody who wanted to respond to what you have to say could do so, would do so, or just maybe might not bother.


You already managed to get one Member's thread closed down with your constant harping, are you shooting for a second one?


to any extent, it seems all too convenient for you to overlook some very important facts.


1. No Mfg. projection screen in existence has perfect Light uniformity from one side to another. High performance screens, screens that have a higher gain then unity, certainly are not going to be exactly equal in reflectivity from side to side or top to bottom. Some screens do better than others, but often it is a case where the projector itself lacks light uniformity..


2. Using a small sample against a very large screen is not indicative in any way shape or manner of the performance that another screen made of that same material or coating, and at the same size would do. that is a proven fact many times over and is a primary reason why using small samples to make a judgement is ineffectual at best and completely worthless at worst. A great many people have made decisions based on small screen samples only to come to the realization that the performance in real life, and at a real screen sizes is not what the sample indicated they could expect or were expecting

Too often, the only one who benefits from suggesting that someone look at a small sample and make a judgement is the person or screen mfg. who provided the sample.


3. You seem determined to try to convince people that the RS-MaxxMudd LL coating does not have virtually equal brightness potential across its surface. That is absolutely a totally wrong statement. That ANY hIgh gain a screen will accentuate a projector's own lack of uniformity is the only correct evaluation you could make. To take that point further, RS-MaxMud LL...which is a coating which has a measured 1.3 gain, exhibits less of a tendency to make such a situation apparent. It might not be absolutely perfect, but for a do it yourself paint application it comes awfully damn close.


In the end, coming on to someone else's thread to dissuade them from a given choice by trying to discredit that choice and the person who has suggested it amounts to pursuing one's own selfish agenda at the expense of the person who needs help and advice. I have yet yo see you post anthing resembling "help" or instructional advice. Instead you could simply suggest a different route to take and let the member do his own research & decision making.


Bluntly put, the only time you get any rebuttle from my direction is when you come onto a thread with your dismissive tone and insistence that I'm giving people wrongful advice.
 

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Quote:
I have yet yo see you post anthing resembling "help" or instructional advice.

OP (and others) may find it helpful to know that someone who has tried both of the exact two options he is weighing, and in fact viewed them extensively side by side, did not find the more expensive and laborious one to be noticeably better. I know I would have welcomed such insight when I was choosing my own screen.
Quote:
1. No Mfg. projection screen in existence has perfect Light uniformity from one side to another. High performance screens, screens that have a higher gain then unity, certainly are not going to be exactly equal in reflectivity from side to side or top to bottom. Some screens do better than others, but often it is a case where the projector itself lacks light uniformity..

Not sure what this has to do with anything I said. The RSMMLL is as bright as Studiotek 130, and brighter than Glidden GLN9000 and C&S Ultra, in the center of the screen; off-center, the brightness on the RS drops off more than the others. More than 1/3 or so of screen width to either side of center, the Glidden and C&S Ultra (and other white paints) are brighter than the RS, as of course is the Studiotek. Trying to bring the projector into the discussion is silly since this was all with the same image from the same projector at the same time.
Quote:
2. Using a small sample against a very large screen is not indicative in any way shape or manner of the performance that another screen made of that same material or coating, and at the same size would do. that is a proven fact many times over and is a primary reason why using small samples to make a judgement is ineffectual at best and completely worthless at worst. A great many people have made decisions based on small screen samples only to come to the realization that the performance in real life, and at a real screen sizes is not what the sample indicated they could expect or were expecting

What do you think would happen if, instead of a sample of 2ft x 3ft or so, a full-size screen were used? Are you suggesting it would be dimmer or brighter or something? Smaller samples are not useful for everything, certainly, but they can just as certainly indicate relative bright and dark performance.
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3. You seem determined to try to convince people that the RS-MaxxMudd LL coating does not have virtually equal brightness potential across its surface.

It has less equal brightness across its surface than any other solution I've tried, paint or otherwise.
Quote:
RS-MaxMud LL...which is a coating which has a measured 1.3 gain

How did you measure it, out of curiosity? My own guess is that it's 1.3 or thereabouts in the dead center (since it matches the S130 there), but 1.0 or less if you go any distance from that.


As I've said, I don't think the gain dropoff is a big deal in itself. You certainly don't "see" it on any regular movie content. You can see it on test patterns, but who cares about that? I bring it up simply because the only reason I can see to go with RSMMLL over a white paint is if you need the absolute brightest solution possible, yet it only has that brightness advantage in the middle third (at best) of the screen, and even that advantage is only noticeable on large areas of solid (light) color like skies or snowfields.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by curttard  /t/1522567/any-suggestions-links-for-painting-a-wall-like-mine#post_24505355



How did you measure it, out of curiosity? My own guess is that it's 1.3 or thereabouts in the dead center (since it matches the S130 there), but 1.0 or less if you go any distance from that.

You need to blame your Projector....not the screen.


Would you care to explain to the masses how a surface comprised of exactly the same composition and ratio of materials can exhibit different properties in one area or another? You cannot because it isn't what's happening.You are either intentionally or out of a lack of understanding leaving out 50% of the equation. It's all about the light the surface receives. RS-MaxxMudd has gain, but that gain is more equally distributed over a broader area than other such screens.. But a light source that is brighter at the center will always show that discrepancy at the center of any surface. Yes, with a surface that has less gain (...across the entire surface...) the effect will be less noticeable. But if additional gain is needed, such a surface cannot suffice. In any case,because in truth as you say it cannot be noticed except with Test patterns, then why are you so determined to make an issue out of a non-issue. (....I know you know that answer...)
Quote:
As I've said, I don't think the gain dropoff is a big deal in itself. You certainly don't "see" it on any regular movie content. You can see it on test patterns, but who cares about that? I bring it up simply because the only reason I can see to go with RSMMLL over a white paint is if you need the absolute brightest solution possible, yet it only has that brightness advantage in the middle third (at best) of the screen, and even that advantage is only noticeable on large areas of solid (light) color like skies or snowfields.

Therein lies the real root of the issue....your personal opinion, one that is not validated any observable issues by anyone else....not a single instance out of hundreds. If it was an issue, don't you think at least a few would be posting about it? Where are they? Or are you the only person astute enough to notice it ....on the test patterns of course.


So ends the discussion....please leave the OPs thread to his desire to achieve a working solution at the size screen he desires.
 

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Quote:
Would you care to explain to the masses how a surface comprised of exactly the same composition and ratio of materials can exhibit different properties in one area or another?

Viewing angle and off-axis gain, as I'm sure you're aware. Gain is simply a number representing how the brightness of one surface compares to the brightness of a reference surface (I believe that reference surface is magnesium carbonate) from a given viewing position. A "1.3 gain screen" is going to be 1.3x as bright as the magnesium (or a measured 1.0 gain white screen) when viewed from a center viewing position...but will not be that bright from other angles. The edges of the screen, viewed from that same centered seating position, will not show that same gain. This has nothing to do with the light source, but with the way light is being reflected by the surface.
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In any case,because in truth as you say it cannot be noticed except with Test patterns, then why are you so determined to make an issue out of a non-issue.

I'll say it again: "I bring it up simply because the only reason I can see to go with RSMMLL over a white paint is if you need the absolute brightest solution possible, but the problem is that it only has that brightness advantage in the middle third (at best) of the screen, and even that advantage is only noticeable on large areas of solid (light) color like skies or snowfields."


To demonstrate what I mean, here is a photo of a 2ft by 3ft panel of Glidden against the RSMLL:




What I see in that photo, which matches what I saw in person, is that the only noticeable brightness advantage the RSMMLL has is in the center part of the screen (around where the right edge of the Glidden panel is), and even there it is only noticeable in that broad, flat expanse of sky -- you can see little or no difference in brightness in the more complex areas of the image, the hills, the grass, etc. And by the time you just get 2 feet away from center (this is a 10ft wide screen), even that brightness advantage is gone -- you can see that over by its left side, the Glidden is every bit as bright or brighter than the RSMMLL (although, again, you can only really see this in the uniform area of the sky).


What I am saying to the OP is that unless he wants to spend a good deal more time and money painting RSMMLL to get a marginally brighter image in the center 20% of his screen -- only noticeable on broad uniform areas like skies -- he would be as well or better served by going with an off the shelf white paint.
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That ends this discussion...leave the OP's thread to focus on his project, not your conjecture.

I have not posted any conjecture. I've posted my own observations and have yet to see a single person but you post anything contrary. Whenever I see someone trying to decide between a white paint and RSMMLL, I will continue to post these opinions and screenshots, in an effort to spare them significant time and money.
 
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