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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know of only one: Hsu's MBM-12 MK-2 is a true mid-bass module with:

Frequency response of 50-150Hz.

Crossover Bypassable 24 dB/Oct, continuously variable 50 - 150 Hz low pass

Are there any makers out there????




m
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimShaw /forum/post/20870216


I know of only one: Hsu's MBM-12 MK-2 is a true mid-bass module with:

Frequency response of 50-150Hz.

Crossover Bypassable 24 dB/Oct, continuously variable 50 - 150 Hz low pass

Are there any makers out there????




m

The JTR Growler is widely thought to be about the best mid-bass module.

http://jtrspeakers.com/portable/growler/
 

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I'm a firm believer that any decent made 8" or 10" sub can be used effectively as a mid bass sub. I use two DefTech Prosubs as MBM subs, when hookd up via speaker wire they only activate at anything below 80hz and I having them hooked up to individual speakers (like my center) I can set the speaker to small and crossed at 40hz, so by doing this my center speaker only handles 80hz and up, the Prosub 40-80hz and anything below goes to my SVS. The prosub 1000 is only good down to 37hz so by setting the crossover to 40hz on the receiver I send the prosub exactly what it can handle without any strain or distortion.


The reason I did this is when I bought my DT 7001s the built in subs (also crossed at 40hz) where outplaying the bass in my center so when a plane would fly across the screen, I would get that disjointed bass sound directly in front, by adding a simple 10" sub to the center and crossing at what my mains were crossed at, I now get fluid bass across the front. I also added another Prosub to my rear channels to allow them to get lower also. I get great mid bass sound al around and my SVS only handles bass below 40hz so it has more power to drive anything below 40hz. This gives me great loud tight well controlled bass.


As mentioned pretty much any decent sub that easily handle 30hz and above with decent power and loudness can be used as a mid bass sub.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UofAZ1 /forum/post/20870701

I'm a firm believer that any decent made 8" or 10" sub can be used effectively as a mid bass sub. I use two DefTech Prosubs as MBM subs, when hookd up via speaker wire they only activate at anything below 80hz and I having them hooked up to individual speakers (like my center) I can set the speaker to small and crossed at 40hz, so by doing this my center speaker only handles 80hz and up, the Prosub 40-80hz and anything below goes to my SVS. The prosub 1000 is only good down to 37hz so by setting the crossover to 40hz on the receiver I send the prosub exactly what it can handle without any strain or distortion.


The reason I did this is when I bought my DT 7001s the built in subs (also crossed at 40hz) where outplaying the bass in my center so when a plane would fly across the screen, I would get that disjointed bass sound directly in front, by adding a simple 10" sub to the center and crossing at what my mains were crossed at, I now get fluid bass across the front. I also added another Prosub to my rear channels to allow them to get lower also. I get great mid bass sound al around and my SVS only handles bass below 40hz so it has more power to drive anything below 40hz. This gives me great loud tight well controlled bass.


As mentioned pretty much any decent sub that easily handle 30hz and above with decent power and loudness can be used as a mid bass sub.

You can use anything that floats your boat but that doesn't mean that true Mid Bass Modules won't seriously outperform some 8 or 10 inch sub not designed to be an MBM.


Your Prosubs can't begin to compete with the Growler and a big-arse amp. The Growler can do 133 db, that would be about 25 db more than the Prosub.


The HSU MBM should also do at least 10 db more than the Prosub.


There is a reason for dedicated MBMs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy /forum/post/20871430


You can use anything that floats your boat but that doesn't mean that true Mid Bass Modules won't seriously outperform some 8 or 10 inch sub not designed to be an MBM.


Your Prosubs can't begin to compete with the Growler and a big-arse amp. The Growler can do 133 db, that would be about 25 db more than the Prosub.


The HSU MBM should also do at least 10 db more than the Prosub.

There is a reason for dedicated MBMs.

Exactly, that is why I am looking far a dedicated sub that does only Mid-range
 

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What's wrong with getting the HSU? What's your budget? Pro-audio subwoofers may be a good thing to look at for massive air movage and 40 hz + extension. JBL audio and even Klipsch. I own an old school highly efficient klipsch 15" subwoofer that absolute POUNDS for music and works quite well for me now as a MBM.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by mannoiaj
What's wrong with getting the HSU? What's your budget? Pro-audio subwoofers may be a good thing to look at for massive air movage and 40 hz + extension. JBL audio and even Klipsch. I own an old school highly efficient klipsch 15" subwoofer that absolute POUNDS for music and works quite well for me now as a MBM.


I actually have the Hsu MBM sitting on the floor as I write this. Hsu let me have it for a couple weeks to give it a test run. The only problem that I might have is that the Hsu is down firing and I need one that is less than 16" high and front firing. I will lay the MBM on its side, making it 14" high, which creates a front firing sub but it does not have a screen that goes over the woofer. The woofer is standing out there, staring at the world but it will at least let me test to see if a mid-range sub is all I need.


My main sub is the SVS PB13-Ultra and I wanted to add a little more to the mid-range. Most (if any) of the non-mid-range subs will not allow limiting the lower end of the bass. The MBM starts at 50Hz and goes up.
 

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Spyboy your suggestion is a good one, but if one were say on a budget than a typical 10" sub can do the job just fine. Yes The Growler can do 133db but how often are you gonna listen at these levels. I play my system pretty dang loud, loud enough to have the lil lady screaming at me to turn it down and my lil Prosubs are chugging along without breaking a sweat. In fact i had a GTG a year back where one of the guests, commented that after hearing my system he needed to visit his dentist to get his fillings reset.


Your suggestion was great as is the MBM I am just trying to give a practical suggestion for those who wish to try a MBM without incurring the high cost. For 95% of us reaching a steady level of 110db with a simple 10" sub is more than enough. Yes it is nice to have all that extra power and headroom if you ever need it, but after reading Jims posts and talking with him in PM, I have learned that the MBM may be just what he needs which is a happy medium between what you suggested and what I have suggested.


Jim continue tweaking and let us know what you get with that MBM.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mannoiaj /forum/post/20871777


What's wrong with getting the HSU? What's your budget? Pro-audio subwoofers may be a good thing to look at for massive air movage and 40 hz + extension. JBL audio and even Klipsch. I own an old school highly efficient klipsch 15" subwoofer that absolute POUNDS for music and works quite well for me now as a MBM.



+1


The majority of pro audio subs are strictly MBMs. This Behringer model has some pretty lofty claims, and comes in just under the cost of the HSU. 35-150hz -3db, with 126db capability.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...umber=248-6544
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UofAZ1 /forum/post/20870701


I use two DefTech Prosubs as MBM subs, when hookd up via speaker wire they only activate at anything below 80hz and I having them hooked up to individual speakers (like my center) I can set the speaker to small and crossed at 40hz, so by doing this my center speaker only handles 80hz and up, the Prosub 40-80hz and anything below goes to my SVS.

A question for you:


what are you using as a crossover between your mains and the ProSub (i.e. what send 80Hz to the mains); or are you sending 40Hz and up to the mains and the ProSub and using the ProSubs crossover to lowpass it at 80Hz
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Picked up an Hsu Mid-Base Module to test with the understanding that I have 30 days to test and make sure. How could I go wrong!


First of all, I have in-ceiling speakers and Hsu thought that the MBM directly in front of the seating area and under the front speakers would be a good spot which is exactly where I wanted it, in a cabinet directly below the TV.


I hooked up as Hsu suggested: Using a "Y" splitter so that the AVR thinks it is one sub, main sub low pass set at 50Hz, slope set at 24dB to match the MBM. AVR crossover set at 120Hz, MBM port plugged to be 100% sealed.


I DID NOT LIKE IT!!! The front stage sounded pretty good and fuller than normal BUT the main sub was so directional playing music, etc. that I thought "no way". I am taking the MBM back"


This morning, before taking the MBM back, I decided to try something else (my settings). My AVR has two sub inputs, I used them both to plug in both subs (basically it is also a Y splitter but by way of the receiver). The AVR now knows there are two subs and I can now change each sub level with the remote while sitting in my chair (I am lazy).


I reset the low pass on the main to 80Hz because I did not want any directional sound and was hoping that would help, kept the slope at 24dB, set the AVR crossover to 110Hz, put on War of the Worlds. Holy cr-p I thought the couch was going to vibrate right out the door. My wife was in the back room reading and yelled that she thought the window in the back had cracked, the cats disappeared under the bed and the dog jumped into my wife's lap.


Loud bass was not what I was looking for (it does become a PLUS though). What I was looking for was: No directional from the main sub; Generally in-ceiling speakers are a bit thin when compared to towers. So, I was hoping for a fuller front stage; A sound that filled the room and a bass that also filled.


YES, so far the MBM with my settings has given me exactly what I want. Tomorrow, I will calibrate with Audyseey to see it can get better.


I spent $499.00 for the Hsu MBM and it looks like it will work. If I keep the MBM, I figured I got away cheap because I was considering subs that cost between $1000-$2100.


Tomorrow, after the calibration, I will plays Blus with music and some SACD's to make sure but it looks like I will be keeping the MBM.






jm
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 /forum/post/20886683


JimShaw - go here for the proper way to calibrate a MBM-12 with a true sub http://forum.hsuresearch.com/showpos...9&postcount=33 .

I thank you but it might not work with what I am doing. I will test it thought.


Remember, Hsu has everyone connect by way of a "Y" splitter making it one sub. I have connected both subs individually to my receiver and the receiver sees two subs. Audyseey will treat them as individuals. I'll see how that works out and if not, I'll try what Hsu has suggested.


I will keep you informed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Tomorrow, I will test to make sure both subs are in phase.


How that will be accomplished....


I will turn on only one subwoofer and play some music or test tones Then I will turn on the second subwoofer to see if output increases or decreases. If output decreases when the second subwoofer is turned on, then the subs are out of phase with each other. One needs to flip the phase switch on one unit to get them in phase with each other.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240
A question for you:


what are you using as a crossover between your mains and the ProSub (i.e. what send 80Hz to the mains); or are you sending 40Hz and up to the mains and the ProSub and using the ProSubs crossover to lowpass it at 80Hz


Rick, when using the Prosubs, they have a built in crossover that doesnt activate till 80hz when using speaker wire. So what I did was hook up speaker wire from receiver (Onkyo 805) to Prosub and speaker wire from Prosub to center (LCR2002) set the receivers crossover to small and 40Hz to main sub (SVS NSD 12/2) so by doing it this way the Prosub gets everything from 40Hz-80Hz before sending everything above 80Hz to the center and everything below 40Hz to the SVS. I get great mid bass just for my center speaker (which can now keep up with my mains (DefTech BP7001s also crossed at 40Hz) and get very tight bass. This also frees up the SVS because it no longer has to handle any bass whatsoever above 40Hz (just everything below 40Hz) The effect is actually quite nice, with deep bass you feel from the SVS and more in your face bass from the various Mid Bass subs outboard and those built into the tower speakers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by UofAZ1
Rick, when using the Prosubs, they have a built in crossover that doesnt activate till 80hz when using speaker wire. So what I did was hook up speaker wire from receiver (Onkyo 805) to Prosub and speaker wire from Prosub to center (LCR2002) set the receivers crossover to small and 40Hz to main sub (SVS NSD 12/2) so by doing it this way the Prosub gets everything from 40Hz-80Hz before sending everything above 80Hz to the center and everything below 40Hz to the SVS. I get great mid bass just for my center speaker (which can now keep up with my mains (DefTech BP7001s also crossed at 40Hz) and get very tight bass. This also frees up the SVS because it no longer has to handle any bass whatsoever above 40Hz (just everything below 40Hz) The effect is actually quite nice, with deep bass you feel from the SVS and more in your face bass from the various Mid Bass subs outboard and those built into the tower speakers.
I didn't realize the ProSub had a high pass on the speaker level outs. Not a very common, but definitely very useful.
 

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The Prosubs do not have a high pass, the high pass he is using is the receiver.


I've though about doing something similar to this, to get some extra midbass. But in no way can a 8" or 10" normal subwoofer produce anything close to what a JTR Growler can do. Yes it plays much louder, but it also has more of a "sledgehammer to the chest feel" to it at lower volume too. The prosubs don't even come close to the Growler, the prosubs are dedicated subwoofer with a radiator, not the most ideal solution for midbass impact, a bass radiator is to extend deeper not help with midbass. A very light woofer in a sealed box with a powerful amp will do much better IMO, for the 50hrz -100hrz.


UofAZ1 glad your happy with your setup in no way am I saying its no good. How did you calibrate your center with the prosub to have the same output volume?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtpsuper24
The Prosubs do not have a high pass, the high pass he is using is the receiver.
No, the ProSub has a high pass.


He is using the receiver high pass to send everything >40Hz on the L/R mains.


He is using the ProSub, connecting to the L/R >40Hz mains and using its internal 80Hz high pass to send >80Hz to the actual mains; keeping 40-80 in the ProSub.
 

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Exactly Rick240 according to Chet at Deftech with the Prosubs you have two options, you do use the high pass filter by using speaker wire and without using the RCA connections. By using the speaker wire the Prosub automaticaly sets it's internal crossover at 80Hz and below, everything above goes just to my center. I then set the receivers settings to Small with a 40Hz crossover for the center channel. So the receiver sends everything 40Hz and up to the Prosub via the speaker wire from there the Prosub activates it's internal crossover at anything above 80Hz to my center, so the Prosub only gets 40Hz-80Hz everything below goes to the SVS, everything above to my center.


By using speaker wire you automatically disengage the manual crossover on the Prosub itself. It's almost impossible to adjust a sub without TrueRTA (which I don't have) and my sound meter doesnt really work with sub frequencies that well so had to use my own ears to calibrate the Prosubs level with my mains built in subs(DefTech BP7001s have a built in Supercube 1 sub in each tower with 1500 watt amp). Since they are all crossed at 40hz and I used Audyssey first to get the levels it was just a matter of playing an airplane scene that flies across the screen at a fairly slow pace (Flyboys is one that has this scene) and getting up and down to adjust the gain on the prosub till I got the perfect volume and smoothness I needed.


You can now watch the flyby scene and it is very fluid all across the front three speakers and by adding this Prosub to enhance the midbass my center could never acheive trying to compete with the bass in the mains, it is darn near perfect. I get the best of both worlds. Great mid bass sound all around and my SVS gives you that slam in the chest you want when Optimus Prime is kicking some butt. In fact the bass hits so hard it actually will set off my GF's asthma at very intense low frequency scenes. The SVS also benefits by not having to power any frequencies above 40Hz so it has more power at louder levels for the real low intense scenes and not one hint of distortion, bloatness or muddy bass whatsoever.


Granted the only thing better would be acoustical treatments but the GF has put the kabosh on that one
 
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