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Discussion Starter #1
I have an HD-A2 and am currently using a Panasonic sa-xr57 avr hooked up via hdmi. I absolutely love the true hd tracks but the lack of bass is bothersome. I have tried a few work-arounds with the avr and sub amp but was wondering if there is an HD-DVD player on the market that could help the -10db lfe bug within the player itself- ie bass settings etc. Is it possible future firmware could give the user a choice to apply a -10 db lfe fix???
 

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The bad news is that if your receiver has this bug then you are screwed. There is no way around it. Any compensation to try and boost the lacking LFE will only result in too much bass every where else. The XR57 has a reputation for this problem as reported on another AVS thread. Do a search for more info.


The only possible work around would be to use the 5.1 analog outs from an A35 or XA2 with this receiver and not use the HDMI input.
 

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A number of AVRs have had this problem. I have a Pioneer Elite bought about two years ago that had the same problem. A firmware update fixed the problem. Check to see if Panasonic has one available.
 

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The problem is not within the HDDVD player - it's your receiver. That being said you have a few options:


1) Purchase a new receiver that properly applies bass management when receiving PCM through HDMI.


2) Calibrate your subwoofer to be 10db louder than your other channels, then look for the option to reduce LFE by 10db for DD and DTS tracks.
 

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I have the A20 and noticed that some movies did not have great LFE, I ended up switching my sound out put from Auto to PCM only and got a huge improvement in my LFE. Especially the much troubled Transformers.


Try it, see if it gives you a difference.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by unclewebb /forum/post/12853231


The only possible work around would be to use the 5.1 analog outs from an A35 or XA2 with this receiver and not use the HDMI input.


What makes you think the same receiver doesn't have the same LFE problem on analog 5.1? My Panny XR25 has this problem over analog 5.1 (as are a lot of other receivers). My solution is to only buy the players that can appropriately apply +10 db LFE before they output to the receiver.


I think OP's problem is fixable in player's firmware if Toshiba wants to. Implement it as a configurable option so that user can chose to have +10db LFE or not based on what receiver he uses.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 /forum/post/12857540


What makes you think the same receiver doesn't have the same LFE problem on analog 5.1? My Panny XR25 has this problem over analog 5.1 (as are a lot of other receivers). My solution is to only buy the players that can appropriately apply +10 db LFE before they output to the receiver.


I think OP's problem is fixable in player's firmware if Toshiba wants to. Implement it as a configurable option so that user can chose to have +10db LFE or not based on what receiver he uses.

The player not supposed to boost the signal because of possible overload,it is strickly the receiver's task, and you're not gonna find such players anyway, nor Toshiba will "fix" something that's not broken.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks for the replies- Kinda figured the player couldn't approprietly fix the problem but you never know. I have read the xr-57 threads and it seems the problem will still exist through analog connections as well. Looks like I need a new reciever


On a side note, I calibrated my system with avia and spl meter- is there a disk that outputs test tones as pcm so I can calibrate for the -10db issue??
 

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Yes, the DVE HD DVD version has Dolby THD tones which will be sent as PCM via your HDMI connection.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekari /forum/post/12854946


The problem is not within the HDDVD player - it's your receiver. That being said you have a few options:


1) Purchase a new receiver that properly applies bass management when receiving PCM through HDMI.


2) Calibrate your subwoofer to be 10db louder than your other channels, then look for the option to reduce LFE by 10db for DD and DTS tracks.

Number 2 doesn't make sense to me. If your LFE is off by -10db and you raise the overall sub volume (LFE+bass) and then you lower the LFE by 10db you're back where you started (with the LFE anyway --- other bass will be +10db).


-10db(LFE) + 10db(LFE+bass) - 10db(LFE) = -10db LFE & +10db bass
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joshbish /forum/post/12860767


Number 2 doesn't make sense to me. If your LFE is off by -10db and you raise the overall sub volume (LFE+bass) and then you lower the LFE by 10db you're back where you started (with the LFE anyway --- other bass will be +10db).


-10db(LFE) + 10db(LFE+bass) - 10db(LFE) = -10db LFE & +10db bass

No he means only lower LFE for DD and DTS which is decoded in the receiver, not the PCM.
 

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Exactly right Foxbat.


The OP's problem is that his PCM input is not having appropriate bass management applied by the receiver. However the receiver likely decodes (and properly applies bass management) DD and DTS tracks just fine.


Therefore, option #2 would likely solve the PCM problem, while keeping the internally decoded (by the receiver) audio tracks properly balanced.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Looks like I will be picking up the hd dve calibration disk- it sounds like I will calibrate the sub with pcm test tones and then find a way to reduce lfe 10 db for dolby and dts sources where bass management has no issues. Thanks guys!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bcrowso /forum/post/12862765


Looks like I will be picking up the hd dve calibration disk- it sounds like I will calibrate the sub with pcm test tones and then find a way to reduce lfe 10 db for dolby and dts sources where bass management has no issues. Thanks guys!

HD DVE along with a SPL meter is Absolutely Essential to anyone wanting a calibrated AV system.


...Angelo
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekari /forum/post/12854946


The problem is not within the HDDVD player - it's your receiver. That being said you have a few options:


1) Purchase a new receiver that properly applies bass management when receiving PCM through HDMI.


2) Calibrate your subwoofer to be 10db louder than your other channels, then look for the option to reduce LFE by 10db for DD and DTS tracks.





WORKED FOR ME
 

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Here's a good write up from Dolby Labs which explains LFE:
http://www.dolby.com/assets/pdf/tech_library/38_LFE.pdf


Higher end and even mid-range HDMI receivers from Denon and Onkyo and others let you adjust the LFE boost separately by +10db. If a receiver isn't combining LFE and overall bass properly then no matter what adjustments you come up with, you're not going to fix the problem. Your adjustments may sound better to you but the problem remains and as mentioned before, it is not up to Toshiba to come up with a fix. The problem is with the receiver and any fix by Toshiba would only result in an overload condition.


Foxbat121: I assumed the problem with the Panasonic receivers was only through HDMI but if the sub analog input is not being boosted either, then you're screwed either way. I previously did some very brief testing with the 5.1 analog inputs using a Panasonic XR55 and didn't notice a problem. I hope to do some proper testing next week with the appropriate test equipment.
 
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