Anybody compare The Fifth Element - HD-XA2 vs Blu-ray player?
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The Blu-Ray looks better. I don't have an XA2 but the BD looks great. If you can't see the difference between 720x480 source (regardless of who scales it) and 1080p source then there's something wrong with your display. Lots of people poo-poo'd TFE on BD because it was one of the first discs and it wasn't some religious PQ experience like they wanted. I was flipping back and forth between the superbit and BD and there is extra "depth" with the BD with the extra resolution. The only downside with the BD is it is made from the same master as the SD discs. The EE is still present.
larry
larry
Ok, then we'll pass you. I'd like to know as well. I watched the Devil Wears Prada on the A1 last night in sd and it was beautiful. Excellent saturated colors and clarity. So an even better upconverting player (the best?) like the XA2 it would be good to get some feedback on individual titles.
Ok, then we'll pass you. I'd like to know as well. I watched the Devil Wears Prada on the A1 last night in sd and it was beautiful. Excellent saturated colors and clarity. So an even better upconverting player (the best?) like the XA2 it would be good to get some feedback on individual titles.
Folks, I haven't seen the BD version of 5th Element. However, I have heard about it, with its film scratches and dirt. So I doubt it is the same source as the SD version (either Super-bit or conventional). No, the Super-bit DVD I have, looks and sounds great. Sony, it is reported, will remaster the BD version soon.
Remember that many DVDs (if not most) were originally digitally mastered on 1080p. So, don't be too surprised if the HD version you buy doesn't have the same flaws as the SD version you already own (not too many I would hope); only now the picture and sound will be closer (if not the same) as the 1080p master.
I can't imagine why The 5th Element was released in BD the way it was. But, I think the way my A2 plays the Super-bit version, it looks stunning. I really could care less about every single perfectly bit mapped pixel in the thing, if it looks good THAT'S what matters to me.
The Toshiba players are doing marvelous things to the DVD collection I already own (and I own hundreds and hundreds of those already). Sony's BDA could care less about the DVDs we own. You won't hear how great their BD players upconvert because they want to convert us all to their over copy-protected, under-performing, over-priced system. To them it's about the money and about the control (and obviously it's working on many here).
I'm simply not buying it and neither are many others not posting here. BD is a consumer ripoff - plain and simple!!!
Remember that many DVDs (if not most) were originally digitally mastered on 1080p. So, don't be too surprised if the HD version you buy doesn't have the same flaws as the SD version you already own (not too many I would hope); only now the picture and sound will be closer (if not the same) as the 1080p master.
I can't imagine why The 5th Element was released in BD the way it was. But, I think the way my A2 plays the Super-bit version, it looks stunning. I really could care less about every single perfectly bit mapped pixel in the thing, if it looks good THAT'S what matters to me.
The Toshiba players are doing marvelous things to the DVD collection I already own (and I own hundreds and hundreds of those already). Sony's BDA could care less about the DVDs we own. You won't hear how great their BD players upconvert because they want to convert us all to their over copy-protected, under-performing, over-priced system. To them it's about the money and about the control (and obviously it's working on many here).
I'm simply not buying it and neither are many others not posting here. BD is a consumer ripoff - plain and simple!!!
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822 Posts
BDA's Motto should be "To Serve Mankind"
Only we find out its a COOKBOOK !!
I'm sticking right with hd-dvd , they have my confidence as they have cost , quality etc .
Now to get more titles on the shelves . Which will happen ...
Bob
Only we find out its a COOKBOOK !!
I'm sticking right with hd-dvd , they have my confidence as they have cost , quality etc .
Now to get more titles on the shelves . Which will happen ...
Bob
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Most likely so Sony could later sell you the enhanced BD50 version.
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Most likely so Sony could later sell you the enhanced BD50 version.
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My guess is, it depends on whether you are comparing the original BD version of TFE or the one that is being re-released. I remember watching TFE on the Samsung player when the BD format was originally released and it looked pathetic. I had less grain and video noise on my SD superbit version with my Denon 2910 than the Blue Ray version.
It is really sad that Sony even tried ramming that sorry excuse of HD down the consumers throat. Thank goodness for HD-DVD to keep them in check. Note the RE-RELEASE of TFE.
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If there is one thing good about this war, it is that the competition will drive down prises and force better quality between the two formats.
Winner in the end will be the consumer.
Craig
My guess is, it depends on whether you are comparing the original BD version of TFE or the one that is being re-released. I remember watching TFE on the Samsung player when the BD format was originally released and it looked pathetic. I had less grain and video noise on my SD superbit version with my Denon 2910 than the Blue Ray version.
It is really sad that Sony even tried ramming that sorry excuse of HD down the consumers throat. Thank goodness for HD-DVD to keep them in check. Note the RE-RELEASE of TFE.
If there is one thing good about this war, it is that the competition will drive down prises and force better quality between the two formats.
Winner in the end will be the consumer.
Craig
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23,061 Posts
It's the same source. I've seen *both* with my own eyes. Somebody mentioned a "second" TFE on BD since the original. That I don't know, I just bought my copy. Is there a way to tell based on packaging info etc?
larry
It's the same source. I've seen *both* with my own eyes. Somebody mentioned a "second" TFE on BD since the original. That I don't know, I just bought my copy. Is there a way to tell based on packaging info etc?
larry
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I'm sure the Superbit looks great on the XA2 or any other quality player/video processor combo (it does I've seen it). But more bits in source beats less source bits scaled any day unless there's equipment issues. It's quite obvious with TFE given both the SD DVD and BD are from the same original master.
larry
I'm sure the Superbit looks great on the XA2 or any other quality player/video processor combo (it does I've seen it). But more bits in source beats less source bits scaled any day unless there's equipment issues. It's quite obvious with TFE given both the SD DVD and BD are from the same original master.
larry
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Actually, it's quite obvious that they're not the same master. Compare the pattern and dirt and grime during the opening scene in Egypt and Leeloo's walk along the building ledge. The DVD has some dirt, but the Blu-ray is much worse. And no, it's not just that the Blu-ray resolves it better. There are big chunks of dirt on the Blu-ray that would be unmistakable even in Standard Def, but aren't present on the "Ultimate Edition" DVD. The Blu-ray was mastered from separate, inferior source elements.
Just because the Blu-ray looks like an upconverted SD DVD isn't proof that it's the same master as the actual DVD edition.
To top it off, the DVD even has better fine object detail in several places, such as the pan down to the Egyptian excavation site after the opening credits, and the scenes inside Ian Holm's apartment (individual strands of Leeloo's hair are better resolved on the DVD than the Blu-ray).
Actually, it's quite obvious that they're not the same master. Compare the pattern and dirt and grime during the opening scene in Egypt and Leeloo's walk along the building ledge. The DVD has some dirt, but the Blu-ray is much worse. And no, it's not just that the Blu-ray resolves it better. There are big chunks of dirt on the Blu-ray that would be unmistakable even in Standard Def, but aren't present on the "Ultimate Edition" DVD. The Blu-ray was mastered from separate, inferior source elements.
Just because the Blu-ray looks like an upconverted SD DVD isn't proof that it's the same master as the actual DVD edition.
To top it off, the DVD even has better fine object detail in several places, such as the pan down to the Egyptian excavation site after the opening credits, and the scenes inside Ian Holm's apartment (individual strands of Leeloo's hair are better resolved on the DVD than the Blu-ray).
I have recorded The Fifth Element (1920x1080 Meg2) and can tell you IT looks vastly superior to the BD transfer which Sony should be ashamed of releasing.
I heard about the bad PQ of the BD release but assumed people were being supercritical UNTIL I was at BB during Christmas where they had it playing on the Sony player as demo material. I watched a few minutes from the begenning of the movie and shook my head in disgust.
I could not believe my eyes!
I walked over to the SONY REP and told him that if they want to sell and BD players he should immediately go over and get that disc out of the player and throw it inot the trash can! Went back a few days later and low and behold Dinosaur was playing!
I heard about the bad PQ of the BD release but assumed people were being supercritical UNTIL I was at BB during Christmas where they had it playing on the Sony player as demo material. I watched a few minutes from the begenning of the movie and shook my head in disgust.
I could not believe my eyes!
I walked over to the SONY REP and told him that if they want to sell and BD players he should immediately go over and get that disc out of the player and throw it inot the trash can! Went back a few days later and low and behold Dinosaur was playing!
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re: Josh
I just went back and looked before I read your post. I see the dirt at the beginning and looked to be the same to me. You do have the bigger screen but I see too much in common to be convinced they're from different elelments - like the EE. It's funny you mention Leeloo's hair because when I was switching inputs I was looking at her hair and thought the BD looked better but I don't think it was same scene. It still looks better than the SB and it's the best copy I have so far. Now you are going to make me go look yet again....
Also, is there any truth to the 2 BD versions? I'm skeptical.
larry
I just went back and looked before I read your post. I see the dirt at the beginning and looked to be the same to me. You do have the bigger screen but I see too much in common to be convinced they're from different elelments - like the EE. It's funny you mention Leeloo's hair because when I was switching inputs I was looking at her hair and thought the BD looked better but I don't think it was same scene. It still looks better than the SB and it's the best copy I have so far. Now you are going to make me go look yet again....
Also, is there any truth to the 2 BD versions? I'm skeptical.
larry
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I was expecting to see "crap" with the TFE BD. But I didn't. It's not vastly superior to the SD DVD, but it's no horrible.
larry
I was expecting to see "crap" with the TFE BD. But I didn't. It's not vastly superior to the SD DVD, but it's no horrible.
larry
I specifically want to know about the HD-XA2 comparison. I had the Denon DVD-2930CI player with the Reon it did some amazing things with TFE. I later got the HD-A1 and returned the Denon because the Denon would not upscale over component and my eyes wanted the greater detail offered by the HD-A1. Of course, now the HD-XA2 is getting rave reviews. I have a couple weeks to decide if I want to return the HD-A1 and get an HD-XA2. I was going to hold out for a dual format player before making a serious investment, but if the HD-XA2 is good enought with SD DVD there is less urgency to get a dual format player to access Blu-ray exclusive titles. And yes, I realize that TFE is a special case -- hard to guess what Sony was thinking.
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I should know better than to rely on my memory.
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The PQ of the BD and SB are close and it would be hard to say which is which if presented with screenshot "blind". Although I still have to give the edge overall to the BD. It's "bad" that is is that way, but TFE, ignoring the transfer flaws, is an exceptional looking movie. I'm still up in the air about the source elements though. At 2:34 on the BD and SB the kid is standing in front of the pyramid. On the BD, just as he opens his mouth there is a straight line of "film wear" appearing right of center near the top. Very definite. Then a big glob of dirt appears after. On the SB at the same point I can barely make out the same line, but no dirt blob. On the original non-SB the line is not there. Is that encoding differences, transfer differences, resolution differences, I don't know.
larry
larry
I have the SB and have seen the Blu-ray twice. [Have also seen it used as demo material on SD and HD so many times that I cannot count them all.] I have also seen the HD cable presentation (cannot remember the channel).
Hey, it is inconsistent. Yes, it has dirt etc. But many scenes on the Blu-ray look terrific.
Hey, it is inconsistent. Yes, it has dirt etc. But many scenes on the Blu-ray look terrific.
Mr PooperScooper,
The point being that there exists vastly superior transfers that exist and have existed for years and why on gods earth they decided to use such a poor "master" is beyond imaginable and someone should be fired at Sony for allowing this to happen.
A much smaller overall file size 1080i Mpeg2 looks stunning next to the BD 1080p large file size Mpeg2? consumer release! That is the sad part. Cable looks far superior to one of the next generation dedicated AV optical movie formats!
Just my 2 cents.
The point being that there exists vastly superior transfers that exist and have existed for years and why on gods earth they decided to use such a poor "master" is beyond imaginable and someone should be fired at Sony for allowing this to happen.
A much smaller overall file size 1080i Mpeg2 looks stunning next to the BD 1080p large file size Mpeg2? consumer release! That is the sad part. Cable looks far superior to one of the next generation dedicated AV optical movie formats!
Just my 2 cents.
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This is one of the few positives of the format war.
I'll say it again. What if there was no HD-DVD. Would all of BD's movies look like the early TFE?? Would there be any drive for Sony BD heads to improve on the video quality??
I personally don't think so.
Craig
This is one of the few positives of the format war.
I'll say it again. What if there was no HD-DVD. Would all of BD's movies look like the early TFE?? Would there be any drive for Sony BD heads to improve on the video quality??
I personally don't think so.
Craig
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