AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 18 of 18 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,517 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Is anyone tuning DTV over cable with integrated QAM tuners (i.e., in Mitsubishi and HItachi sets with integrated tuners--there may be others--or Promise Module upgraded Mitsubishi sets)?


If you are, where are you, what's your cable provider and what channels can you tune this way?


It seems that some providers are scrambling rebroadcasts of local DTV and I'd like to get a sense of how much of this goes on. (I think that it may violate FCC rules).


Thanks.


-- Mike Scott
 

·
Registered
LG 55" C9 OLED, Yamaha RX-A660, Monoprice 5.1.2 Speakers, WMC HTPC, TiVo Bolt, X1
Joined
·
45,643 Posts
A couple of folks that have Comcast in Detroit are.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
It does not violate FCC rules.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,599 Posts
I'm in the Chicago area and pick up the following Comcast signals with my Mits set: WLS-DT (ABC), WBBM-DT (CBS), Discovery HD Theater, WFLD-DT (Fox), and WMAQ-DT (NBC). Comcast's HD service (set to launch next month) also carries HBO and Showtime in hi-def.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,517 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by gmclaughlin
It does not violate FCC rules.
It's a little bit up in the air--there is a law which prevents cable systems from scrambling anything in their basic tier (a cable SO can get an exemption if it can prove rampant theft of basic cable, but I don't think that any have been granted). Without this law, the term "cable ready television" wouldn't mean squat--there'd be no cable service that you could use without renting a STB. The question that's being decided as part of the rule making on DTV-must-carry is whether cable channels must carry local DTV in their basic tier--if so, they'd have to cease scrambling. The FCC's request for comments on the recent cable-MSO/consumer-electronics-OEM agreement on standards for DTV over cable seems to assume in a couple of places that rebroadcast of local cable will not be scrambled.


Since there are several DTV-cable-ready (i.e., unscrambled QAM tuning) televisions already, I think that a strong argument can be made for requiring local DTV carriage in the basic tier and I expect that it will become a rule. Of course, since its undecide, you couldn't complain to the FCC about it now.


-- Mike Scott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,517 Posts
Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by FSugino
I'm in the Chicago area and pick up the following Comcast signals with my Mits set: WLS-DT (ABC), WBBM-DT (CBS), Discovery HD Theater, WFLD-DT (Fox), and WMAQ-DT (NBC). Comcast's HD service (set to launch next month) also carries HBO and Showtime in hi-def.
Cool. Comcast in San Diego is scrambling their local DTV carriage.


I wouldn't expect to be able to tune HBO and Showtime with your television's embedded tuner, though. I'm actually surprised that they're transmitting Discovery HD in the clear. I think that most of the SOs scramble everything in their "digital cable" packages, premium or not.


-- Mike Scott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
474 Posts
MichaelScott,


While the NAB is pushing a must-carry agenda, it's a long way from being approved, and the FCC is not exactly a speed demon in getting stuff done. "Up in the air" is a misleading statement -- while at some time in the future, the rules may change, current law simply does not require DTV signals on cable to be made available on the basic tier, or even to be carried at all.


Even if "dual must-carry" is approved, it does not mean channels will pop up on your basic tier. Must-carry exists in Analog, and the vast majority of network broadcasters (not the PBS guys or the independents) WAIVE their must-carry rights, electing instead for "retransmission agreements".


The downside of must-carry for the broadcasters is that they CANNOT charge the cable operators anything for the signal. The reason many broadcasters currently don't have carriage of their HDTV signals (or worse yet, DTV signals) is that they're trying to charge the cable operators for the signal, and the operators are refusing. Waiving must-carry just maintains that impasse.


This is an incredibly complex issue, and has huge ramifications. DTV must-carry will be bad for the growth of HDTV.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,599 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by michaeltscott
I'm actually surprised that they're transmitting Discovery HD in the clear. I think that most of the SOs scramble everything in their "digital cable" packages, premium or not.
Comcast will supposedly roll out their HDTV service in mid-May, and the beta testers who frequent these boards all report that Discovery HD Theater is NOT in the official line-up. I'm guessing Comcast just hasn't pulled the plug on the feed because of the test program. However, I fully expect that channel to disappear once the official rollout begins.


As for Showtime and HBO: to be honest, the only reason I'm signing up for Comcast's HD service is to get those channels. I can get all the local channels OTA (or in the case of the local CBS station, via cable).
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,869 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by FSugino
I'm in the Chicago area and pick up the following Comcast signals with my Mits set: WLS-DT (ABC), WBBM-DT (CBS), Discovery HD Theater, WFLD-DT (Fox), and WMAQ-DT (NBC). Comcast's HD service (set to launch next month) also carries HBO and Showtime in hi-def.
My experience is the same.:)
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,748 Posts
I'm stupid...how do I find out what type of DTV Tuner my set has?


It's a Sony KDP-65XBR2.


TIA.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
85 Posts
Kipp,


Which channel numbers you are getting the HDTV for CBS, NBC, ABC and Discovery HD on Comcast using QAM tuners? Supposedly, Samsung 165 can tune in QAM channels for cable as per Samsung technical support!! However, it only goes up to channel 125 and not higher.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
897 Posts
Is there such a thing as a stand-alone HDTV QAM tuner, or a converter to turn the QAM to 8VSB so you can watch in the clear HD over cable without renting a box from the company?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
797 Posts
I've been confused about QAM and so-called Cable-Ready w.r.t. the non-HD channels. Is QAM also the pseudo-standard used to transmit (both encrypted and non-encrpted) SD channels as well? Supposedly, a QAM-capable Tuner can decode HD stations, but will it also be able to decode the (already existing) Digital SD stations (i.e. Comcast's current Digital Cable offerings)? Again, this question is ORTHOGONAL to the rathole discussion about clear vs. encrypted channels and addressible/non-addressible SetTop Boxes/Integrated Tuners.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
20,517 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
According to the specs of the SIR-T165, it cannot tune QAM--I think that it was designed just before the appearance of newer chips which tune both ATSC and QAM. On page 3 of the updated SIR-T165 Owner's Manual it states the follow:
Quote:
4. Can I connect my DTV set-top receiver to my cable TV service?


Cable TV systems use a different method for transmitting digital TV programs that is currently incompatible with broadcast DTV set-top receivers. So you will still need to use an outdoor or indoor antenna to receive OTA broadcast DTV programs. The good news is that you won't have to pay a monthly or per-program charge to watch OTA DTV and HDTV programs. They're free, unlike subscription satellite TV or premium cable TV. All you need is an antenna and a DTV set-top receiver to enjoy clear, sharp widescreen images and high-quality audio.
Of course, this oversimplifies the OTA situation. As well as an antenna and a DTV STB receiver, depending upon where you live, you may also need a lot of luck. I can receive 3 out of 6 DTV channels in my area on the SIR-T150. It's possible that with some outlay of additional cash for an attic antenna and installation thereof, I could recieve the other 3, but my best hope is cable.


Of course, if your cable system is one of the few still transmitting DTV in 8 VSB (a modulation scheme designed for air-transmission which wastes bandwidth the in much less noisy broadband cable environment), you should be able to tune those channels with your Samsung STB.


-- Mike Scott
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
3,539 Posts
There are currently no standalone HD STBs that support QAM, only the boxes made by Pioneer and Scientific Atlanta for the cable system for digital cable. Zenith has announced new models of their HD STBs however that will support both 8VSB and QAM coming out later this year. But all QAM capable units will only decode the inencrypted channels and most (if not all) of the digital cable channels will be encrypted because the cable systems charge extra for the digital cable access. Many cable systems encrrypt even their HD local channels as well.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
797 Posts
> There are currently no standalone HD STBs that support QAM, only the boxes made by Pioneer and Scientific Atlanta for the cable system for digital cable.


Don't think this is true. Aren't the Motorola 5100/5200 series boxes what Comcast is using for the purpose?


Of course the boxes that are "addressible" will also be able to decrypt the encrypted "conditional access" channels.


A previous email exchange with the person in charge of rolling out HD-over-Cable in the Bay Area confirmed that a QAM-tuning HD Tuner, even though "not addressible" will be able to Tune the Cable-carried OTA HD broadcast here - subject, of course, to agreements with the broadcasters as well as installation of equipment to "get it".
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
11,869 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by rkt999
Kipp,


Which channel numbers you are getting the HDTV for CBS, NBC, ABC and Discovery HD on Comcast using QAM tuners? Supposedly, Samsung 165 can tune in QAM channels for cable as per Samsung technical support!! However, it only goes up to channel 125 and not higher.
115.01, 116.01, 116.02, 117.01, 117.02.
 
1 - 18 of 18 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top