[BIGmouthinDC]

I am starting to decide what to upgrade my audio system with in conjunction with going with a larger 2.35 acoustically transparent screen and was referred to Wayne's web site.


The more I read, the more I am intrigued. Any first hand impressions of these speakers? Specifically the Pi-4 which is a two way with a 15 inch woofer and compression driver and horn.


Looking to build 3 for the L/R/C/ and would use his kit.

 

[Eddie Horton]

got the plans from wayne and am planning the same thing as big, so i, too, am curious. big, are you looking at the upgraded drivers or the eminence? sorry for the crappy typing. one handed due to shoulder surgery yesterday.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC /forum/post/16833976


I am starting to decide what to upgrade my audio system with in conjunction with going with a larger 2.35 acoustically transparent screen and was referred to Wayne's web site.


The more I read, the more I am intrigued. Any first hand impressions of these speakers? Specifically the Pi-4 which is a two way with a 15 inch woofer and compression driver and horn.


Looking to build 3 for the L/R/C/ and would use his kit.

Wayne is active on AudioKarma and also on diyaudio.com, Im sure some people there will have opinions. I know Wayne goes up against Geddes with differing opinions in the waveguide threads on DIYaudio.com (very interesting to read those debates)

Big, Augerpro is doing a 2-way waveguide design as we speak, he has also doing the extensive measurements with all the popular waveguides, 12" woofers, compression drivers.


My waveguide thread has lots of opinion and good discussion on the topic as a whole but not much on the Pi-4 speakers. The end results of all that discussion and Augerpro tests will result in what I think will be the best DIY waveguide designs.


If you have not spent some time reading about his testing or my thread. It might be in your best interests since the waveguide of choice based on Augerpro's measurements is a nice $7 waveguide from QSC. Im pretty sure Augerpro will make his crossvers available for others too.

 

[BIGmouthinDC]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Horton /forum/post/16834123


big, are you looking at the upgraded drivers or the eminence?

I found a thread in his forum where he prioritizes the upgrades in relation to importance:


1. Woofer

2. Compression driver

3. Coils

4. Capacitors

5. Resistors


If I am going to undertake the effort to build these I suspect it is my nature to do them fully loaded.

 

[Eddie Horton]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC /forum/post/16834514


I found a thread in his forum where he prioritizes the upgrades in relation to importance:


1. Woofer

2. Compression driver

3. Coils

4. Capacitors

5. Resistors


If I am going to undertake the effort to build these I suspect it is my nature to do them fully loaded.

understood. thanks for the info.

 

[Scott Simonian]

My upcoming LCR project is based around the Pi4 from Wayne. I wanted more flexibility than the Pi4 provides on its own. Going with an active setup. With that change I decided I would go with the TD15M from AE speakers instead of the JBL or Eminence woofer as well.


The Pi4 is an awesome value.

 

[limulus]

Very interesting thread you've started. I've had the components to build Pi8s for four years and they are still in the boxes. They were not really suited for HT use, so I just never put them together. I'd like to see the results if someone does build the Pi4.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by limulus /forum/post/16835979


Very interesting thread you've started. I've had the components to build Pi8s for four years and they are still in the boxes. They were not really suited for HT use, so I just never put them together. I'd like to see the results if someone does build the Pi4.

Why is the pi8 not suited for HT? Just curious.

 

[limulus]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/16835992


Why is the pi8 not suited for HT? Just curious.

I had posed the question about using the 8s in a HT setup and from memory, everyone, including Wayne, recommended the 4. I can't remember why or if a reason was given (may have something to do with the way the horns are configured). So, maybe they would be OK...

 

[BIGmouthinDC]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/16834253


The end results of all that discussion and Augerpro tests will result in what I think will be the best DIY waveguide designs.

I am behind you 100% in your endeavor. I have actually dropped into both threads from time to time but have yet to walk away with an actionable build plan. I understand that it takes time but when do you think you guys will be past the prototyping stage and have a documented DIY plan consisting of publicly available parts that has been tested and peer reviewed?

 

[BIGmouthinDC]



Quote:
Originally Posted by limulus /forum/post/16836059


I had posed the question about using the 8s in a HT setup and from memory, everyone, including Wayne, recommended the 4. I can't remember why or if a reason was given (may have something to do with the way the horns are configured). So, maybe they would be OK...

Is the Pi-8 better suited for corner loading? The tapered shape of the rear of the enclosure suggests that.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC /forum/post/16836215


I am behind you 100% in your endeavor. I have actually dropped into both threads from time to time but have yet to walk away with an actionable build plan. I understand that it takes time but when do you think you guys will be past the prototyping stage and have a documented DIY plan consisting of publicly available parts that has been tested and peer reviewed?

I think we already know the drivers, the waveguides and the compression drivers and what they all do, Auger has done enough testing and posted the results (well he is almost done). He already knows what his drivers are and I believe he will be starting his project after his vaction. I can not speak for him or how much documentation he will have for others but he has been very open about all his great measurements so far.


Mine will use active crossovers because Im still a crossover noob.


Wayne's kits sound great though, great price too.....you might want to ask on DIYAudio if anyone has experience.

 

[augerpro]

As Doug mentioned I'll be finishing the woodworking and measurements over the next three weeks of vacation. Crossover modeling shouldn't take too long after that. By the end of August I should have some info to post and a full build thread.


The overall design is a 2 way using the Eminence 3012HO woofer, the QSC horn with 30ppi foam ala Geddes, and either the B&C DE12 or DE160. Originally I had hoped to use the DE12, but after measuring it I had my doubts that it could manage a BW3 crossover @ 1200-1300hz. So I looked at the DE160 with is a step up in low end extension and overall smoothness. After more fiddling I think the DE12 can reach the needed crossover point with LR4 slopes. So the ultimate decision on which I use may not be made until I use the actual speaker measurements, and even then I may build both just to see if there is any audible issues to make me pick the DE160 over the DE12.


If that project goes well I'm considering an upgrade using a TD12M and maybe something like the Beyma CP380M.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro /forum/post/16836592


....

If that project goes well I'm considering an upgrade using a TD12M and maybe something like the Beyma CP380M.

I was hoping you would post the BMS 4550 instead

btw, Im sending money your way tomorrow.

 

[augerpro]

Well I may change my mind after I test those 4550's you have. I need to get a hold of some CP380M's for testing too. Radian also has some CD's worth looking at, since they are the only ones still using aluminum diaphragms that I know of. Outside of vintage JBL, which doesn't interest me.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro /forum/post/16836666


Well I may change my mind after I test those 4550's you have. I need to get a hold of some CP380M's for testing too. Radian also has some CD's worth looking at, since they are the only ones still using aluminum diaphragms that I know of. Outside of vintage JBL, which doesn't interest me.

I might just buy the 4550 from US Speaker if Assistance Audio does not reply soon.


EDIT: Just got an email, sending you a PM on it

 

[noah katz]

"QSC horn with 30ppi foam ala Geddes"


So you tested the QSC w/the foam and found it to be better? What about the XT1086?

 

[augerpro]

You know I did the comparison on your XT1086 with foam and haven't really looked at the data yet as I've been so busy. I was going to post some of it and couldn't find some measurements so I think I may have forgot to save some of the data. I probably won't have time to re-measure either. BUT I did do a quick comparison while I was doing tha actual measurements and with foam it was smoother and flatter. I didn't compare IR or CSD but I do remember thinking the improvement was very significant for frequency response. I expect that the IR and CSD would show an improvement also.


The improvement for the QSC wasn't quite as pronounced. I'm hesitant to make much more of a judgement on the comapison until I get a chance to look more closely at the data. But I can say you should definitly try the 1086 with the foam. I should have it in the mail back to you soon.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by augerpro /forum/post/16836769


You know I did the comparison on your XT1086 with foam and haven't really looked at the data yet as I've been so busy. I was going to post some of it and couldn't find some measurements so I think I may have forgot to save some of the data. I probably won't have time to re-measure either. BUT I did do a quick comparison while I was doing tha actual measurements and with foam it was smoother and flatter. I didn't compare IR or CSD but I do remember thinking the improvement was very significant for frequency response. I expect that the IR and CSD would show an improvement also.


The improvement for the QSC wasn't quite as pronounced. I'm hesitant to make much more of a judgement on the comapison until I get a chance to look more closely at the data. But I can say you should definitly try the 1086 with the foam. I should have it in the mail back to you soon.

Yeah but how did it sound?

 

[augerpro]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/16836844


Yeah but how did it sound?

Didn't get a chance to do that either