Joined
·
141 Posts
Has anyone either had the Casablanca II upgrade done or purchased a Casablanca II? What difference do you hear? How do you like the additional features?
Anyone Heard a Casablanca II yet?
-
Now Available: Tech Talk Podcast with Scott Wilkinson, Episode 19 Click here for details.
- Status
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
Joined
·
280 Posts
Neither the upgrade or the Casablanca II are available yet. They keep changing the times for them and I would say September or October. It may be late August but I doubt it. Some places have had limited access to beta units but they won't be true until the final code is in place. From feedback of owners they think it should be a fairly big upgrade due to the specs but it's kind of a tough deal to swallow for Casablanca owners. This is because while you can put all new boards and flash in the unit it will be the same cost as just buying a Casablanca II outright. Something many feel they got cheated on since the whole idea of the Casablanca was FULL upgradability with a "cost effective" solution. Other companies have done the same thing, but buyers are letting them know it's not appreciated and certainly shouldn't happen as it does now.
I'm sure the Casablanca II will be nice, but most dealers haven't heard it yet either except just the beta like I said. We'll have to wait and see if Theta comes though but at what cost is not known for certain.
Jeff
I'm sure the Casablanca II will be nice, but most dealers haven't heard it yet either except just the beta like I said. We'll have to wait and see if Theta comes though but at what cost is not known for certain.
Jeff
rjason had his 'blanca upgraded from 1 to 2 for $1700. Apparently Theta can only do a certain number of upgrades at a time, so it is rolling from dealer to dealer. Steve (of Tweaks forum) expects his upgrade in September.
$10k would be stupid. It would also not be Theta's way.
Claude
P.S. Go to http://www.thetadigital.com for a full description of the upgrade. There's quite a bit for the money.
[This message has been edited by ClaudeD (edited August 01, 2000).]
$10k would be stupid. It would also not be Theta's way.
Claude
P.S. Go to http://www.thetadigital.com for a full description of the upgrade. There's quite a bit for the money.
[This message has been edited by ClaudeD (edited August 01, 2000).]
Joined
·
280 Posts
I'm not sure about the full details, but I was told by Theta some things haven't been finalized yet. Even dealers are saying if you do all the cards and upgrades it will be non cost effective. Like I said, not sure so check into it yourself and find out. Maybe they have more on it now but a few weeks ago it was about the same. Here is the direct quote from a dealership that sells Theta on their web site. It seems to indicate what I was told.
"Theta Casablanca II surround sound processor. This update to the famous Casablanca will feature an enhanced 12-channel processor board, built-in RS-232 control, 24 bit/96kHz operation, jitter reduction, additional speaker crossover flexibility, and all the software features of the Casanova. Theta expects Casablanca II to be available in August-September 2000. An update for Casablanca I owners will be available at around the same price as if you had bought a Casablanca II. Exact prices have yet to be determined."
Jeff
"Theta Casablanca II surround sound processor. This update to the famous Casablanca will feature an enhanced 12-channel processor board, built-in RS-232 control, 24 bit/96kHz operation, jitter reduction, additional speaker crossover flexibility, and all the software features of the Casanova. Theta expects Casablanca II to be available in August-September 2000. An update for Casablanca I owners will be available at around the same price as if you had bought a Casablanca II. Exact prices have yet to be determined."
Jeff
Joined
·
22,565 Posts
Jeff, you have misinterpreted the above. I have discussed this with Theta at CES, Mary Cardas of Theta the other week, and recently with my dealer.
The cost of the original Casablanca 1, plus the upgrade price, is to be roughly equivalent to the price of buying a brand spanking new Casablanca 2. Upgrades have already been started on a dealer dealer basis. I have an appointment for an upgrade by a Theta tech at my Scottsdale dealer, Esoteric Audio, in late Sept. Bring it in, few hours later bring it home.
And my dealer estimates the upgrade price, so that the Casablanca 1 = Casablanca 2, at least in base mode, prior to additional options, is about $1,500 plus shipping. And get this, let's say I want to add an additional three channel balanced Superior DAC card. My retail cost several years ago was $2,100. Current retail is $2,300. Yet at upgrade time, its only a shade over $1,700 - actually in a sense saving me money.
My understanding from Mary Cardas is that an upgraded Casablanca 1 will be identical functionally and soundwise to the same unit bought now as a Casablanca 2, except that the Casablanca 2 is just a bit larger, maybe a half-inch, for rack mounting, as opposed to the Casablanca 1 chassis.
Jeff, do you own a Theta Casablanca? From where are you getting your information? At least based on what I've been told, some of your information appears to be in error. But if you've got better information sources than me, of course I would like to know that.
------------------
Steve Bruzonsky
The cost of the original Casablanca 1, plus the upgrade price, is to be roughly equivalent to the price of buying a brand spanking new Casablanca 2. Upgrades have already been started on a dealer dealer basis. I have an appointment for an upgrade by a Theta tech at my Scottsdale dealer, Esoteric Audio, in late Sept. Bring it in, few hours later bring it home.
And my dealer estimates the upgrade price, so that the Casablanca 1 = Casablanca 2, at least in base mode, prior to additional options, is about $1,500 plus shipping. And get this, let's say I want to add an additional three channel balanced Superior DAC card. My retail cost several years ago was $2,100. Current retail is $2,300. Yet at upgrade time, its only a shade over $1,700 - actually in a sense saving me money.
My understanding from Mary Cardas is that an upgraded Casablanca 1 will be identical functionally and soundwise to the same unit bought now as a Casablanca 2, except that the Casablanca 2 is just a bit larger, maybe a half-inch, for rack mounting, as opposed to the Casablanca 1 chassis.
Jeff, do you own a Theta Casablanca? From where are you getting your information? At least based on what I've been told, some of your information appears to be in error. But if you've got better information sources than me, of course I would like to know that.
------------------
Steve Bruzonsky
Joined
·
22,565 Posts
My understanding is that the case will be a new style in that it is sized to be rack mountable. That's all I found out. When I saw the Casablanca 2 at CES, in black, heck, it looked just like my black Casablanca 1 to me. I guess I should have brought my measuring stick!!!
------------------
Steve Bruzonsky
------------------
Steve Bruzonsky
Joined
·
280 Posts
Steve:
I've talked with Mary before too at Theta and I'm sure she gave you correct information. A very nice person to speak with and so is most of their team there. I'm not certain about the details as I haven't been updated for several weeks now. You may indeed be correct about the pricing, so far as I knew none of it was finalized yet and the word came from an authorized Theta dealer (two of them) just about three weeks ago.
I'll call Theta back and the dealers to find out, I always like to get details on gear like this so I know what's going on. It would be nice if those prices were correct and I'm sure they must be. The notice on their web site seemed to indicate such and would be great for current owners and future ones as well.
Thanks for the info, hope to get a demo when they come in (Septemeber?).
Jeff
I've talked with Mary before too at Theta and I'm sure she gave you correct information. A very nice person to speak with and so is most of their team there. I'm not certain about the details as I haven't been updated for several weeks now. You may indeed be correct about the pricing, so far as I knew none of it was finalized yet and the word came from an authorized Theta dealer (two of them) just about three weeks ago.
I'll call Theta back and the dealers to find out, I always like to get details on gear like this so I know what's going on. It would be nice if those prices were correct and I'm sure they must be. The notice on their web site seemed to indicate such and would be great for current owners and future ones as well.
Thanks for the info, hope to get a demo when they come in (Septemeber?).
Jeff
Maybe I am just hallucinating but, I believe that my Casablanca has been upgraded to a Casablanca ll and is sitting just 5 feet from me. The cost of the upgrade depends upon what you started with and which upgrades you got. Since the Casablanca is modular it is conceivable that an upgrade for some owners would be pretty pricey. If you bought the absolute bare bones Casablanca when they first came out, didn't get superior DACS, didn't get DD or DTS, didn't get video switching, didn't get any of the many other options that were offered and payed around $4000(just guessing) and now you have decided to upgrade to the Casablanca ll and want to get every single thing offered plus all the original stuff you didn't originally buy, yeah that could add up. However, that is not a very realistic scenerio. If you own a Casablanca and like it enough to want to do a upgrade you already would have the basic boards for watching movies (DTS, Video switching, etc).
Steve is right the basic upgrade is around $1500 or $1700, not sure exactly. Mine was slightly more because I chose to also do some cosmetic upgrades. You can get a new faceplate, heavier enclosure, different colored light for the face which add up to a few hundred more. Now if you want all the bass outlets, the most expensive DACs Theta makes for all 8 channels then you could start adding up some more dollars. Personally, like I have said in many posts, side channels, rear channels, center rear channels are only used for ambiant noise in movies so buying the best DACs for them is a waste of money. Even in 2 channel music each upgrade we make in our electronics are fairly subtle. When the sound of a door shuts in the rear channel it will sound the same with the standared DACs or the superior DACs.
I beleive that the two most expensive parts of the upgrade are the new board for the 3 new channels and the new power supply. Three channels and the DACs to make them work, and a new power supply (which is one of the most important aspects of all pre-pros and amps) plus something like a dozen other upgrades for $1500 is a pretty sweet deal. I would say that Theta has kept all its promises to the original owners. Now if 4 years ago you would have bought Meridian or Lexicon and have bought each and every new model to keep up with their newest and best technology I would venture to say that with the Meridian you would have spent at least 2 times the price of the Casablanca ll, maybe even 3 times, and with the Lexicon you would probably be about even. So, Theta has been pretty fair.
Just a added note though. If you are starting from scratch forget about all 3 of the above mentioned brands and get CAL Audio, I would.
I forgot to answer the original question about how it sounds. Can't do a A/B test of before the upgrade and after but, it does seem like the new power supply and heavier chassis has made some sonic improvements. Impossible to tell when you can't listen and then take the upgrade away and listen again. The obvious big difference is the addition of side channels and rear center channel for movies. Of course that means speakers and at least one more amp. Are the additional channels worth it? Since I'm still not sold on the value of rear channels I'm the wrong person to ask about side and center rear channels.
[This message has been edited by rjason (edited August 03, 2000).]
Steve is right the basic upgrade is around $1500 or $1700, not sure exactly. Mine was slightly more because I chose to also do some cosmetic upgrades. You can get a new faceplate, heavier enclosure, different colored light for the face which add up to a few hundred more. Now if you want all the bass outlets, the most expensive DACs Theta makes for all 8 channels then you could start adding up some more dollars. Personally, like I have said in many posts, side channels, rear channels, center rear channels are only used for ambiant noise in movies so buying the best DACs for them is a waste of money. Even in 2 channel music each upgrade we make in our electronics are fairly subtle. When the sound of a door shuts in the rear channel it will sound the same with the standared DACs or the superior DACs.
I beleive that the two most expensive parts of the upgrade are the new board for the 3 new channels and the new power supply. Three channels and the DACs to make them work, and a new power supply (which is one of the most important aspects of all pre-pros and amps) plus something like a dozen other upgrades for $1500 is a pretty sweet deal. I would say that Theta has kept all its promises to the original owners. Now if 4 years ago you would have bought Meridian or Lexicon and have bought each and every new model to keep up with their newest and best technology I would venture to say that with the Meridian you would have spent at least 2 times the price of the Casablanca ll, maybe even 3 times, and with the Lexicon you would probably be about even. So, Theta has been pretty fair.
Just a added note though. If you are starting from scratch forget about all 3 of the above mentioned brands and get CAL Audio, I would.
I forgot to answer the original question about how it sounds. Can't do a A/B test of before the upgrade and after but, it does seem like the new power supply and heavier chassis has made some sonic improvements. Impossible to tell when you can't listen and then take the upgrade away and listen again. The obvious big difference is the addition of side channels and rear center channel for movies. Of course that means speakers and at least one more amp. Are the additional channels worth it? Since I'm still not sold on the value of rear channels I'm the wrong person to ask about side and center rear channels.
[This message has been edited by rjason (edited August 03, 2000).]
Joined
·
307 Posts
I hate to say this and it is obviously just my opinion.
I feel that the Casa Nova sound so close to the Casablanca I could see no reason to spend the extra money on it. I recently decided to sell my Casa Nova and get the Casablanca2. However when I did a little listening to the Blanca 2 I was not overjoyed. Of course it sounded great but not much better than the Nova. The difference will not shock you in my opinion and is only subtle. With respect to the Blanca 2 I will say it had alot less time on it than the Nova so this could be a major factor in what I heard.
I also listened to an Audio Research and Dreadnaught neither trully impressed me for the price again maybe they just needed breaking in?
I am not saying that Casablanca doesn't do any thing better than the Nova because it offers numerous advantages. But you must have the correct equipment to take advantage of this and even then the difference is not huge. The Casa Nova has completely changed the sound of my system and I think I have decided what amp to pair with it. Earthquake Cine-Nova when this combination occurs I will post a review. It will be awhile because I am waiting for the amp in a silver finish with a seperate 12 volt trigger instead of the serial connection.
The main reason I cannot afford The CB2 is I am buying a projector, screen, and the Cine-Nova to make some leaping improvements to my system.
Tell me what you think?
http://www.earthquakesound.com/cinen...aBrochure1.htm
I feel that the Casa Nova sound so close to the Casablanca I could see no reason to spend the extra money on it. I recently decided to sell my Casa Nova and get the Casablanca2. However when I did a little listening to the Blanca 2 I was not overjoyed. Of course it sounded great but not much better than the Nova. The difference will not shock you in my opinion and is only subtle. With respect to the Blanca 2 I will say it had alot less time on it than the Nova so this could be a major factor in what I heard.
I also listened to an Audio Research and Dreadnaught neither trully impressed me for the price again maybe they just needed breaking in?
I am not saying that Casablanca doesn't do any thing better than the Nova because it offers numerous advantages. But you must have the correct equipment to take advantage of this and even then the difference is not huge. The Casa Nova has completely changed the sound of my system and I think I have decided what amp to pair with it. Earthquake Cine-Nova when this combination occurs I will post a review. It will be awhile because I am waiting for the amp in a silver finish with a seperate 12 volt trigger instead of the serial connection.
The main reason I cannot afford The CB2 is I am buying a projector, screen, and the Cine-Nova to make some leaping improvements to my system.
Tell me what you think?
http://www.earthquakesound.com/cinen...aBrochure1.htm
Nathan Ivey,
I haven't spent any time with the Casanova but, I would venture to guess that you are correct in regards to the Casanova being able to hold its own against the original Casablanca. May even sound better. What the first Casablanca had over the Casanova was that it came out four years earlier. At that time the choices were pretty limited, especially if you wanted DD (AC-3) at that time. At the time the first Casablanca came out there wasn't another pre-pro that had a working AC-3 board, that I could find. Angstrom put a pre-pro on the market with it at that time but, they had serious problems. I'm not sure when the Lexicon and Meridian models came out with a properly working AC-3 board. If it was the same time as Theta I couldn't find a dealer in the LA area that had one, I looked pretty hard. The Casanova benifited from the R&D of the original Casablanca and of course the falling prices as the boards for DD and DTS became commonplace.
Even comparing the Casablanca ll to the Casanova, the Casanova makes more sense by far for the majority of home theaters. If you already own the Casablanca l of course the upgrade makes sense. Or if you have a large theater and want the extra channels and bass outputs. Which DACs does the Casanova have? That may be another slight advantage for the Casablanca. For the most part, even though I am very happy with my Casablanca l now upgraded to a ll, I wouldn't try to convince someone to chose it over the Casanova. If they haven't already done so, I would suggest that they look at all the fine pre-pros out there in that price range. Lexicon has some features that the Casanova doesn't have that some people like, and I think that Cal Audio has a pre-pro that sounds very good in 2 channel mode.
It seems that in just 4 years HT has matured to a level that the differences in electronics in the same price point are getting pretty small. That's good news for all consumers. You don't have to worry it you bought the right peice of equipment. If the raves from all the various owners on these forums are at all accurate, they all seem to be performing as promised. A few years ago you had to be kinda weary. Now the questionable area is more in the realm of video playpack. Time to jump into digital or not, is HDTV here or not, if I pay 5000 for a TV this year that may or may not be HDTV ready will I regret it next year, etc. In four years hopefully, all of this will be as much of a no brainer as buying a VHS machine is now. By that I mean, they should all work and work well.
I haven't spent any time with the Casanova but, I would venture to guess that you are correct in regards to the Casanova being able to hold its own against the original Casablanca. May even sound better. What the first Casablanca had over the Casanova was that it came out four years earlier. At that time the choices were pretty limited, especially if you wanted DD (AC-3) at that time. At the time the first Casablanca came out there wasn't another pre-pro that had a working AC-3 board, that I could find. Angstrom put a pre-pro on the market with it at that time but, they had serious problems. I'm not sure when the Lexicon and Meridian models came out with a properly working AC-3 board. If it was the same time as Theta I couldn't find a dealer in the LA area that had one, I looked pretty hard. The Casanova benifited from the R&D of the original Casablanca and of course the falling prices as the boards for DD and DTS became commonplace.
Even comparing the Casablanca ll to the Casanova, the Casanova makes more sense by far for the majority of home theaters. If you already own the Casablanca l of course the upgrade makes sense. Or if you have a large theater and want the extra channels and bass outputs. Which DACs does the Casanova have? That may be another slight advantage for the Casablanca. For the most part, even though I am very happy with my Casablanca l now upgraded to a ll, I wouldn't try to convince someone to chose it over the Casanova. If they haven't already done so, I would suggest that they look at all the fine pre-pros out there in that price range. Lexicon has some features that the Casanova doesn't have that some people like, and I think that Cal Audio has a pre-pro that sounds very good in 2 channel mode.
It seems that in just 4 years HT has matured to a level that the differences in electronics in the same price point are getting pretty small. That's good news for all consumers. You don't have to worry it you bought the right peice of equipment. If the raves from all the various owners on these forums are at all accurate, they all seem to be performing as promised. A few years ago you had to be kinda weary. Now the questionable area is more in the realm of video playpack. Time to jump into digital or not, is HDTV here or not, if I pay 5000 for a TV this year that may or may not be HDTV ready will I regret it next year, etc. In four years hopefully, all of this will be as much of a no brainer as buying a VHS machine is now. By that I mean, they should all work and work well.
Joined
·
307 Posts
The DAC's in the Nova are Burr-Brown PCM-1716's saw them when took the cover off of my unit to inspect the boards.
I agree with your ideas about high-end electronics in DD & DTS but in stereo I have found a large variation amongst many of the top processors.
The one unit that is rumored to have the absolute best DAC's is the Cal.
According to reviews and comments it owes this to a multibit DAC where Casa-Nova has a single bit. However I believe that the power supply is also important and from what I've heard Nova has one of the best availiable.
As good as the Cal may sound(I haven't heard it) the looks and design are not on the level of the Theta's. It's hard to trully appreciate a modular unit untill you take those four screws off and hold the card in your hand, realizing that it's that easy to upgrade! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
I agree with your ideas about high-end electronics in DD & DTS but in stereo I have found a large variation amongst many of the top processors.
The one unit that is rumored to have the absolute best DAC's is the Cal.
According to reviews and comments it owes this to a multibit DAC where Casa-Nova has a single bit. However I believe that the power supply is also important and from what I've heard Nova has one of the best availiable.
As good as the Cal may sound(I haven't heard it) the looks and design are not on the level of the Theta's. It's hard to trully appreciate a modular unit untill you take those four screws off and hold the card in your hand, realizing that it's that easy to upgrade! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
1 - 13 of 13 Posts
- Status
Join the discussion
