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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This looks like it may be the projector im looking for. Anyone have any information about US release or even some good english specs? I may order from japan if everything looks good. How about colorwheel speed? Is mitsu known to give good user controls on their products? There doesnt seem to be a super popular mits in this forum right now. Would be bad to order it and not be able to switch the menus to english etc. Anyone have info? darinp? bueller?


anyone able to translate this japanese site?
http://www.mitsubishielectric.co.jp/...pec/index.html
 

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The web site says the color wheel is 5x speed RGBRGB. It also mentions "independent R/G/B/Y four-color adjustments" but does not say exactly what it allows you to do with these colors. It says that the light engine features a new "non-telecene" (spelling?) configuration:


lamp -> color wheel -> relay lens -> DMD -> projection lens


But is this unusual??? Importantly, the DVI-D input is HDCP compatible. Contrary to a post in another thread here, it uses a 0.7" DMD (not 0.9"). Although the web site does not say anything about the menu language, I would be surprised if it does not allow you to change it to English or other European languages (did not see a single model in Tokyo that cannot do this).


Other than these points, the specs have been pretty much covered in other threads here.
 

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Is there anything to indicate whether it is the 1024x576 "Matterhorn" chip or if it is just a XGA DLP masked to 16:9? I've been waiting for a 4x or better 16:9 DLP that I can afford and this may be it. I can't wait until someone reviews it.
 

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Has TI ever announced this Matterhorn DMD chip? I have not seen it. And I strongly doubt that TI would start distributing it in large quantities without publicly announcing it. My current assumption is that the Matterhorn does not exist, and those native 1024x576 projectors/RPTVs use a masked XGA chip. BTW, the masking is by no means a total waste if do not need a 4:3 native resolution, since it increases the lumen output on a 16:9 screen.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks for the help sushi, wish you could have seen this model while you were in Japan. Is anyone planning on getting one of these? Not sure if its worth $800 more than an hs-10, but im really leaning towards dlp. Can anyone find out the throw distances? Im hoping for a 96" diagonal 16:9 with whichever proj. I get.
 

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Hi price3,


I was able to take a quick look at this PJ just the other week at the same AVAC store where Sushi bought his Yamaha. I got there near closing time though, so I wasn't able to do a detailed comparison with the other projectors in the same room. In the short time I was there, I must say that I was impressed by what I saw.


The Mits D1208 was running simultaneously with the awe-inspiring (and 3x more expensive) Yamaha DPX-1000. Obviously the Yamaha was superior in resolution, with a somewhat more natural color palette. But by no means did the Yamaha embarrass the Mitsubishi. Both projectors were running an NHK HDTV soccer feed which looked great. It may have been just a set-up issue, but the Mitsubishi's color saturation was a little too intense for my taste. The green of the soccer field had that deep astro-turf look to it compared to the Yamaha. It wasn't objectionable mind you, but it did look different and not quite "real" compared to the Yamaha.


Differences in black levels were difficult to judge because the Yamaha was being projected on a considerably larger screen than the Mits. Also, because of the source material (a brightly lit soccer game), there wasn't much in the way of blacks to make an accurate determination. I looked at the Mitsubishi right after visiting the downstairs showroom with lower priced PJs like the Plus 3200, Sanyo Z1 and the Sony HS-10, and the difference in perceived contrast was pretty striking.


By the way, I picked up a Japanese brochure for the LVP-D1208 and it does specify an 1024x768 DLP chip, so I'm pretty certain that Sushi is right about it being a masked XGA DLP. Sorry, my Nihongo (especially Kanji) still sucks, so I can't make out a lot of the brochure except for the numbered specs (closest thing to a universal language we have).


As far as throw distances go, here's what the brochure says: 60" (2.18 - 2.60m), 80" (2.90 - 3.47m), 90" (3.26 - 3.90m), 100" (3.63 - 4.33m), 120" (4.35 - 5.2m). So it has a considerably longer throw than a Z1 or AE300. Specified noise level is 31 db.


Hope this helps.
 

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Wow... all those brand new models side-by-side at AVAC! I hope to visit there in the near future again, even though I am still perfectly happy with my Yamaha after one month. LOL Maybe I should cook up another "unavoidable" business trip soon. heh-heh...


Thanks for the report, Ktak!
 

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"BTW, the masking is by no means a total waste if do not need a 4:3 native resolution, since it increases the lumen output on a 16:9 screen."


That would be the case if they went to the expense of designing a special reflector, which, judging by the meager output (only 550 L from a 210 W lamp), they didn't.


On the other hand, perhaps it's a true 550 L at D6500, which is similar output to the HD2's.


Ktak, could you make any judgement on the brightness?


Thanks


Only
 

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Quote:
That would be the case if they went to the expense of designing a special reflector, which, judging by the meager output (only 550 L from a 210 W lamp), they didn't.
Noah, what I meant was, if they had made it as a 4:3 projector with 550-lumen output, then it would have been 440 lumens when used as a 16:9 projector. By masking the chip down to 16:9, they "retained" 550 lumens onto a 16:9 screen, whether it is meager or not.
 

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The Mitsubishi was projected on what looked to me like an 80 or 90 inch screen and it was plenty bright to my eyes. This is immediately after seeing the lower priced Sanyo and Panasonic, both of which have a higher light output (at least on paper). Keep in mind that the AVAC store has total light control, although there was some reflected light in the room from the Yamaha DPX-1000 which was being projected on what had to be at least a 120 inch screen, taking up a big chunk of the left wall. The screens were perpendicular to each other, rather than side-by-side, which made it easier for me to focus my attention on one screen at a time.
 

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Sushi,


"...if they had made it as a 4:3 projector with 550-lumen output, then it would have been 440 lumens when used as a 16:9 projector. By masking the chip down to 16:9, they "retained" 550 lumens onto a 16:9 screen, whether it is meager or not."


I don't understand. If all they did was mask it, the illumination of the masked portion is lost.


On the plus side of the lumen rating, there's no white segment, so it's the equivalent of a 1000 L pj that has one.
 

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Noah,

I think what Sushi means is that the output measurement of the Mitsubishi is based on the 16:9 screen area only, whereas the light output measurement for a typical XGA 1024x768 projector is based on the average output over the entire 3:4 screen.


According to the Stewart website, ANSI lumens are derived by measuring reflected light from 9 points on a screen, each measuring 1/3 of the screen width. The average of the nine readings in lux (lux = lumen/square meter) is multiplied by the number of square meters of the image (overall screen size) at the plane of the meter reading. The result is the light output of the projector in lumens.


So when only the 16:9 area of that 4:3 XGA panel is taken into account, the output would be only 440 lumens instead of 550. That's because the lux rating is being multiplied by fewer square meters. Since the non-16:9 area of the Mitsubishi panel is never active, it probably wasn't factored into the lumen calculation. The measurement is based on the 16:9 area only.


If I'm getting this wrong, somebody please correct me.
 

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Yes, Ktak had it right. Sorry for my ZEN English. LOL


In addition, with the DMD chip properly masked, of course Mits would modify the light source condenser/aperture so that it illuminates the non-masked portion of the chip only, which I believe is very important to minimize the stray light and hence maximize the CR.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
are there other current projectors that use a masked xga chip? This sounds like a reasonable alternative for those who want 4:3 smaller than 16:9. I realize that part of the chip would be "wasted" in this configuration, but it seems like what I'm looking for as an inexpensive 16:9 dlp.
 

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I see what you mean, but again, the bottom line is only 550 L from 210 W; the HT1000 gets 1000 L 4:3/750 L in 16:9 from a 220 W lamp.


"In addition, with the DMD chip properly masked, of course Mits would modify the light source condenser/aperture so that it illuminates the non-masked portion of the chip only..."


Certainly they would if cost were no object, but the numbers above indicate otherwise. It's cheaper and more expedient to use an exisiting 4:3 reflector.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
If i could get the HT100 for less than $3500, id jump right on it, maybe in the next few months the price will drop another 4-500 or so to be in line with the mitsubishi. Sure would be nice to have a US Warrantee. I emailed Mitsu US headquarters about the release of this model here, so far no response.
 

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It's worth pointing out that lumens are not a measure of light energy, but a measure of perceived light (flux corrected by a standard spectral response curve). One 100 lumen lamp can produce several times the light energy of another 100 lumen lamp, even though most people will perceive them to be equally bright. It's only really fair to compare the light output of two projectors when they are both calibrated to the same color temperature.


Anyway, I really like the idea of this projector. I want a DLP projector, but I can't tolerate 2x wheels. I want a 16:9 screen, and I want to watch 4:3 material pillarboxed inside the screen (since 4:3 sources are generally lower quality). I don't want to think about an anamorphic lens and I don't want light spill. For these reasons, a 4:3 projector is just not appealing. However, HD2 projectors are completely out of my range.


I wonder if Mitsubishi is buying chips that failed QC in the areas above or below the 16:9 area? It would seem ideal, they could be cheaper and TI would make money from parts that would otherwise be tossed.


The other thought I had was that they could mask XGA chips to 960x540. It seems like it would be an easier resolution to scale. I think that TI really needs an entry-level 16:9 part to move into the entry level market. Masking 4:3 chips would be a low-cost way to start.
 

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Quote:
I wonder if Mitsubishi is buying chips that failed QC in the areas above or below the 16:9 area? It would seem ideal, they could be cheaper and TI would make money from parts that would otherwise be tossed.
Yeah, I was thinking about the same thing. I think it is quite possible, although we will never find it out.


My guess is, in general the 4:3 chips are currently much less expensive than the 16:9 chips, due to the big demands for data projectors. However, the figures will change quickly within the next few years, as the hometheater FP market really takes off.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Still no response from Mitsu corp. Do you think they will respond to email inquiries or am I being naive?
 

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I see a viable market niche for a 800x600 chip masked to 800x450. It could have a 4x color wheel. It could switch between 1:1 crop mode like the X1 or a scaled mode. It would be pretty ideal as a DVD/SDTV device. I think TI needs more of a presence in the low-end HT market.
 
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