AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 11 of 11 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,223 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Did TI finally beat the rainbow problem with these new dlp projectors. I will be looking at the new sharp in a couple weaks to find out for my self. I am concerned that my guests may see them. I am looking for responses from the 10% who are sensitive to them. I have all ready heard form the other 90%.


Thanks


William


PS. Some of my video savy guests comment on the low black level of my sony 10ht. (From what I have heard the smart II tweek may solve that)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
859 Posts
I saw the Sharp 9000 this past Sunday, after seeing the 11HT on Saturday (neither of them make me want to drop my CRT, but that's not the point of this thread). I am sensitive to the rainbow, and I suppose I'm very sensitive because I did see them on the Sharp. They were not nearly as bad as a DLP with a normal speed color wheel, they only appeared on brightly lit objects during moments of high contrast. I found it slightly annoying, but I did not experience any fatigue while watching, which I normally do when viewing a DLP. I could sit and watch it at someone else's house, but I wouldn't buy it myself. Otherwise, it's a truly outstanding projector (except in black level, but I'm a CRT owner so take that with a grain of salt), exceptionally sharp and colorful. I did make out some graininess on the superbit of the Fifth Element, but only at an unreasonable viewing distance.


Edit - I should also state that if I put up a 100 IRE grid pattern (For Convergence) on my CRT I can also see color sepration if I look from one side of the screen to the other rapidly, but only under those circumstances.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,653 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by William Mapstone
I am looking for responses from the 10% who are sensitive to them.

Polls here have shown that about 2 out of 3 people see rainbows, in my family all 5 of us see them including my 4 year old son.


Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,563 Posts
Rainbows are an interesting creature, aren't they? I agree that the 10% figure is probably not accurate. It didn't take me long to notice them on my LT85. However, as many people have said, I think that you can learn to live with them (and perhaps even tune them out?). I guess in some ways this is probably not that different than any other "defect". Once you allow yourself to become involved in a movie, you can tune out just about any defect.


Recently, my church organized a men's night in which we showed one of the episodes of "Band of Brothers". The place we met had a great conference/lecture room with staggered seating and a big screen. The screen looked to be projected from the rear by a FP CRT (I didn't go in the back to look). When they started it up, I (and everyone) noticed about the most awful big screen picture I had seen in some time. The problem was snow. The hotel must have split their coaxial cable a hundred times before it reached this room. However, despite such an awful picture, after about 10-15 minutes, I had tuned it out and enjoyed the show.


This proves something to me (which many may disagree with here). The most important aspect to great movie watching is a big screen. I think I'd rather have a poor looking, but much more enveloping, big screen than a great looking TV. Hmm...This could make a great poll.


I'll take it one step further. I was in a local A/V dealer that specializes in high end setups (FP, etc.) and custom installation. They had a theater room and boy did they have the subwoofer booming. The whole showroom area (small place) was vibrating. They were playing "Saving Private Ryan". When I went into the room, I gained a new appreciation for loud sound, but more specifically the role of a good subwoofer. My second thought, though, was that my wife would never allow me to shake the house like that. So, despite considering myself more of a videophile than an audiophile, I think that beyond a big screen the most important aspect to having an enveloping experience is a good surround sound setup with plenty of bass. Again, I think this has more impact on the "enveloping" aspect than picture quality would.


So, why is this? Well, I think that a big screen and good sound (with good rumbling) is always there to engulf you whereas many picture defects can be "tuned out". Other thoughts?


Scott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,223 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I was hoping that TI fixed the rainbow problem with that new wheel. I guess they only reduced the problem. I'll look for my self but I am not about to trade one weakness (black level) for another weakness (Rainbow). I have ruled out CRTs due to the video game factor, and like all of us are in the pursuit of a perfect digital projector (realistically speaking). I am happy with the black level on some of the new DLPs (yamaha) but untill rainbows are gone, I won't be replacing my 10HT. In the future, if Dila or LCD etc. can beat DLP in black level and TI hasn't fixed the rainbow problem, why would you buy DLP for HT.


William
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,102 Posts
I just posted something about this in another thread but I want to take it one step further. What are we using as sources for evaluating the rainbow effect? I have come to the conclusion that it may be the source. Because alot of people are using set top dvd players where the refresh rates are hard coded you would get a rainbow effect more often than on a HTPC that has the refresh rate set at the highest the PJ can do (along with a stable picture). This is just a theory and I just want to find out about this to ease my curiosity.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
859 Posts
Paul, I have seen the rainbow effect on a DLP through a HTPC running at greater than 60Hz. 72Hz to be precise. I did not get a chance to see the Sharp running through a HTPC or scaler that could vary the refresh rate, there was a Pioneer DV-37 running directly into the projector as the source. The refresh rate might help in my case, but I think not since I seem to be particularly susceptible to the effect.


William, why would you rule out a CRT projector based on videogames? I have a CRT and I play a lot games and have no ill effects. So long as you calibrate the system properly, keeping the contrast and brightness settings to sane levels, then you shouldn't have any problems with burn in. Overdriving the CRT's will give you burn in very quickly with any source material that has a still image in it, not just games. I've never seen a properly calibrated CRT with burn from games from normal use. On the contrary, I saw a Toshiba widescreen TV taken out of the box and put on display at factory settings at a Best Buy I worked at. It was playing a demo loop with text on it that changed every two minutes or so. That set had burn in with the text from Twister in a couple of months.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,102 Posts
Thanks Sean. The reason for my asking is that on my DLP I set the refresh rate as high as the PJ would allow for that resolution and it did cut reduce the rainbow effect considerably. At the time I had a Geforce card and that was producing ripping. I haven't tried my new Radeon 8500 yet. I just wanted to add that because I think a lot of people feed their projectors a signal from a stand alone DVD box. (as a footnote I never saw the rainbow effect from an HD source)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,289 Posts
I'm quite rainbow-sensitive, and I hardly notice them on the 9000. The easiest way to see them is to look at a scene that contains very bright, very fine vertical lines. Apart from that, I saw practically none on the 9000.


I have experienced the eye fatigue a few people have discussed on various threads. The strange thing is, I've watched DLP projectors (LT-150, 9000) for a couple of hours and had no problem, and then watched it for 10 minutes and felt weird. That makes me think that *that* effect may be content related or room lighting related.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
904 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by William Mapstone
I was hoping that TI fixed the rainbow problem with that new wheel. I guess they only reduced the problem.
AFAIK, there is no fix for the rainbow problem when using a 1-chip DLP, the issue is inherent in the design. Of course, the mfrs can reduce it with more elements and faster rotation in the color wheel, but it will always produce 3 separate overlaid images that will be susceptible to the rainbow effect and there will probably always be someone who can see it.


jake
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,223 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Sean,


Thanks for comments. I honestly dont know a lot about CRTs. When I bought my 10ht almost 2 years ago I chose LCD because I had heard that burn in was a problem with CRT's and games, though your comments make sense. CRT also were more expensive, although I hear that you can get 8" CRT refurbished at good prices. I also didn't want to have to pay someone to converge my CRT every 6 months.


I wish I had the knowledge and time to jump into the CRT market but at this point in time I don't have the patience to learn. To be able to plug and watch is very appealing to many of us.


William
 
1 - 11 of 11 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top