AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 27 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I still have my NEC HT1000 projecting onto a self made blackout cloth screen at 110" in a dedicated room. It has been 4 years and I am really itching to upgrade. I plan to order the Carada 110" BW next month but my real question is, would some of these new PJ be a worth while upgrade to the HT1000? Would it be enough to make my wife notice it? She thinks that the picture projected by the HT1000 is just fine. I want her to be impressed with the upgrade.


My room is about 10' by 18' with 8' ceiling. Walls and ceiling are dark burgundy with brown carpet and no windows. I get full light control. I have the Oppo 971 DVD player. Still no HD DVD or Blu Ray.


Anyone out there upgraded their HT1000? I am debating between the JVC RS1, Epson 1080, Mitsu 5000 and the Panny 1000. I really want to get the JVC but the $2000 premium is scaring me a bit and getting wife approval is a little more difficult. If I go for one of the other ones, would I still be very happy with the upgrade? With just a upscaling DVD player, would you even recommend upgrading my PJ or should I just upgrade the screen and be happy? I have about 1000 hours on my lamp. Thanks all in advance.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,980 Posts
Vs the Epson, Mits and Panny I'd wait 1 month for the Optoma HD80 (1080p) to come out at it's $2999msrp. Two HDMI inputs and a DVI input looks good, Iris, 300watt bulb. I can't wait to get my hands on one, should be soon very soon.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,068 Posts
I was using an HT1k with a blackout cloth screen in a dark room w/ light control also.

I was using it in a Constant Height capacity, 37" high with the greatest width being around 86"...though that wasn't always ideal, as screen door effect could be visible in white areas on occasion (sitting about 11" back). A fine defocusing worked generally well, though.

Apart from the resolution aspect, I was mostly very satisfied with the HT1k in terms of black levels and other image attributes.


I upgraded to a Pearl in November, and the first thing I did in anticipation of getting the pj, was to make a new larger BO screen- increased the height by 5" to 42" and the max width to 103".

Everytime I watch it, I'm amazed and thrilled that SDE is no longer a concern, even with a considerably larger image. Black levels seem to be on par with the HT1K as far as mixed content scenes go- but when a fade to black happens, depending upon the specific situation, it can be quite startling- sometimes plunging the room into an almost total black void for a second or two until your eyes adjust. It depends on how bright the previous scene was, and how abrupt the fade is, and while its not always quite that dramatic, I can fully understand now why people chase black levels the way they do.


some of the other bigger benefits for me have been
  • 16:9 AR
  • Powered zoom/focus/shift
  • full picture controls over HDMI
  • 2 HDMI inputs (as well as RBG component)
  • SIGNIFICANTLY quieter than the HT1K (major plus here!)


In general, There is almost no area where I don't feel the Pearl has been a major, substantial, and welcome upgrade over a pj I was already quite satisfied with.


The only area where the NEC (and DLP) has it over the Sony is in terms of uniformity. I watch a lot of black and white content, and the NEC effortlessly projected perfectly even, uniform, neutral greyscale image. On the Pearl, I have a slight discoloration visible in one area. It seems to lessen in severity after the PJ has warmed up for a couple of hours, and its visibility also depends on the content i.e. you can notice it more readily in a persons face, rather than a dark background. It's fairly minor, but like any flaw, once you know it is there you tend to fixate on it. This is my first non DLP pj, and from what I understand, this is a common issue with LCD and LCoS. Other than this aspect, I would say I enjoy LCoS/SXRD as much and probaly more than DLP (rainbows never bothered me- especially on the HT1K).


Definitley do not regret the upgrade.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks a lot guys. I do notice screen door a bit but that doesn't bother me too much. The areas where I want to see improvements are with punchy image (more contrast) and blacker blacks. I also would like to see more details resolved. Not sure if I can get that with an upscaled DVD.


The HT1000 has served me very well but I would like to know how much better a newer 1080p PJ would be. The last thing I want is for my wife to say, "You spent all that money for this!!!". That would hurt in more than one way ;-)


I looked up the HD80 and called a couple of stores but it still seems to be too soon to get any concrete info on this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,068 Posts
I'll be honest and admit that I think the NEC may have had a punchier image with the same content- BUT- that could be due to the fact that the images with the NEC were also quite a bit smaller, which enhanced the vibrancy and intensity.

I remember the first time I saw a Ruby and I was not all that impressed with it compared to the NEC I had at home. It also seemed to lack an impressive punch in comparision.

To me, its not a problem, as the Sonys easily have as much punch (if not more) than films at the cinema. That's always been my big goal- to replicate a cinema experience- so in that regard I'm perfectly satisfied. Others may want to look elsewhere

If thats a big concern for you, I would suggest the JVC thought that might still not have the same punch as one of the newer DLPs. There seems to be some reliablity issues with the Optomas- you may want to read thru the last few pages of the H81 thread.


Unless you step up to one(or both) of the HD formats, you won't be getting any more detail from standard definition. The NEC already 'upscales' the 480i/p content to 768.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,980 Posts
Stick with DLP. In a head to head you would prefer the image. Wait one month the $2999 or better 1080p will be available.


As far as possible projector problems all the companies will have some. You get a warranty so don't worry that into the deciding. Hell I had two serious problems with my HT1000's, fixed under warranty.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts
I recently made the jump from an NEC HT1100 to a Panasonic AE1000u. I was really very happy with my HT1100 before the change, but, WOW! What a difference. The Panasonic outdoes my old NEC HT1100 in ever way. It is much brighter, it has a better black level, more contrast, it has much much more resolution this is very noticeable on 1080i content. With good HD content. I aways thought my HT1100 looked great, but the AE1000u has that "looking through the window" effect and I cannot believe the image quality. I am also very happy with SDTV performance which is something that my HT1100 did so much better than most of the 720p projectors I had owned or saw.


The NEC was a great projector and competed well with many 720p projectors. But the Panasonic AE1000u and probably all of ther new 1080 projectors are

really in a whole another league.


Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,457 Posts
I haven't used my HT1000 in a long time but the RS-1 is definately a big step-up. The HT1k was dim, needed better contrast and black levels, and sometimes better resolution. The RS-1 delivers all this and more, but that's to be expected. The RS-1 was only $200 more than the HT1k when I bought the latter several years ago, which shows how much projector depreciation sucks.


I would agree with GuitarMan though... if you don't have issues with DLP artifacts then stick with DLP or the Pearl/RS-1. As to if the wife will see an 'improvement' is hard to say for brighter scenes, but most likely with dark/mixed scenes it would be a very big YES.


Unfortunately its probably not worth $4k+ to the average viewer, but then you're only here if you're obsessed, right?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfire99 /forum/post/0


I would agree with GuitarMan though... if you don't have issues with DLP artifacts then stick with DLP or the Pearl/RS-1.

I am curious as to what makes you say this? While I have not ever had the pleasure to see the Pearl or RS1 and I and sure they look great, the Panasonic AE1000u is a huge improvent over the HT1000 in ever possible way and when I watch it I can't really see any areas where it could be improved in any noticeable way.

Other than noise. It could be a bit quieter.


Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,457 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCroly /forum/post/0


I am curious as to what makes you say this? While I have not ever had the pleasure to see the Pearl or RS1 and I and sure they look great, the Panasonic AE1000u is a huge improvent over the HT1000 in ever possible way and when I watch it I can't really see any areas where it could be improved in any noticeable way.

Other than noise. It could be a bit quieter.

Because DLP will still give you the best bang-for-the-buck in image quality, especially that all-important intra-scene contrast. SXRD/LCOS will give you potentially better black levels and the same pixel structure benefits of LCD with higher native contrast. I say this of course not considering price, and of course that is where LCD shines.


If I didn't see rainbow artifacts and I wasn't concerned about dithering then why not go with the new Infocus or Optoma 1080p's? I'd still want to go with a Pearl or RS-1 before I started considering LCD, but that's just my preference, because I am a black-level freak and simultaneous CR freak (for the same reason, it makes things more realistic on screen).


This is just my opinion, and I know others will disagree. I would take ANYTHING over the HT1k, just to get something modern and 1080p, so it's not like I'm saying modern LCD is not as good as a machine from 3-4 years ago.


We still need a proper shootout between all these machines. That's why there's so much consternation here about exactly what differences there are. We have professional reviewers but nothing beats a good old-fashioned group slug-out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
409 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by wildfire99 /forum/post/0


This is just my opinion, and I know others will disagree. I would take ANYTHING over the HT1k, just to get something modern and 1080p, so it's not like I'm saying modern LCD is not as good as a machine from 3-4 years ago.


We still need a proper shootout between all these machines. That's why there's so much consternation here about exactly what differences there are. We have professional reviewers but nothing beats a good old-fashioned group slug-out.

I agree that a good old fashion 1080p shootout is called for. I would add that the new 1080p LCDs have made a quantum leap in contrast and black level performance over just the last generation 720p LCD offerings from last fall. And with the virtually invisible pixel structure of the AE1000u, fill ratio is no longer an issue like it was at 720p. I owned 3 LCDs (720p) before moving to the HT1100 2 years ago. At the time I would have concluded, as you have, that DLP was clearly superior to LCD in the areas of contrast and black level. But today, I would question if that is still the case and even if it is, I wonder if we have reached the point of diminishing returns in this area of performance.


I bought my AE1000u at Costco last month because I wanted the option to return it if I was not completely blown away by its performance. At my time of purchase I would have put the odds at 50/50 that I would return it, but as you can see I have been more than happy with the image it throws. And at less than $3000 I would recommend it to anyone.



Tom
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
707 Posts
If you go with anything other than the JVC which I understand will

top out your budget, I would invest in the Toshiba HD-A2

(or an HD player you feel fits your budget) to show it off.

The pj can only do so much. You may find that improving the source

is the most cost effective way to get that extra wow you are looking for.

Even if you do go for the JVC I would still look to add one or both of the

HD formats.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
424 Posts
hahah isn't it amazing that this 3-4 year old little nec can still trade punches with the latest and greatest in all areas except resolution, what a achievement i say. i still have my ht1k and i recently brought home a hc5000 from my work for comparison and i found the following


brightness - about t even

black level - easy win for the nec

dark senes - easy win for the nec

colour - this is where the hc5000 showed the nec whos boss, colors are a step up in accuracy and saturation, not a massive step but definately noticeable

detail - again the hc5000 wins in this category but again not by as much as you would expect , when both units were fed a hd-dvd the difference was surprisingly subtle


all in all the ht1000 still kicks ass and until i can buy a PJ which can beat it in all areas (i would say the JVC is the only one i think which will satisfy me and hence why it will be my next PJ) but as for any thing else ,dont bother
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Why did I have a feeling that most will say only the JVC will have a "wife approved" improvement over the HT1000. I guess that if I am going to upgrade, I should just bite the bullet and get what I really want. If I don't, I will always look back and ask myself why didn't I do it. I have done it in the past. At the same time, I just wanted to make sure that I do not leave out the great contenders like the Panny, Sony and the Mitsu.


If this was my first purchase, I think that I would be very happy with any of these 1080p PJs. Since I am upgrading, I really want to be blown away with the improvement over the HT1000. It makes me feel great that the HT1000 is still a decent contender.


Anyone underwhelmed by their upgrade?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,457 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Prakash /forum/post/0


Anyone underwhelmed by their upgrade?

Heh... I'm underwhelmed. I thought the JVC would really be 'black' with a full black field being projected, but it still puts out a lot of light (perceptually). That was about the same big frustration I had with the NEC, and it's probably about the same level given how big a screen I tried to get the NEC to project on. The difference of course is that given the same black level, when the sunshine comes up on the screen, the JVC makes your eyes water and scream in pain, but the NEC would just make them go 'meh'.


I remember how one member here commented that their kid asked how the HT1k "projected black", which was funny considering that it really did have true 'black' capability if only in very mixed scenes and even then only for part of the screen. The JVC can do it for the full screen and with absolute authority if there's at least some bright object somewhere, so that's a step up but not what you'd call wildly more engaging.


One thing is for sure... I am glad to get away from fixed offset projectors! I just wish they'd do real 'blackouts' already. Is it hard to just shove a plate or ND2 in the light path once in a while? Well, thus far no projector is perfect. How disappointing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks Wildfire. That is a little disappointing to hear as I was hoping that the screen would indeed be black and very close to that. The HT1000 always bothered me in that area. I never liked the grey bars during widescreen movies or the side pillars.


I too am looking for a PJ where I do not need to worry about the vertical offset. That just drives me nuts. My PJ is ceiling mounted and my screen to far too low on the wall. I would like it to be higher but I can't do that with the HT1000 without getting into keystone (3D reform). I would really like a PJ with lens shift. However, the wife would never care about the lens shift. All she would look at is how much better is the image on the new PJ versus the HT1000.


If the PJ is that much brighter than the HT1000, then have you considered just leaving the Neutral Density filter all the time to deepen the blacks? Sounds like you may have plenty of lumens to try this. Would that make the blacks "inky" and reduce the brightness of the blacks during dark scenes?
 

·
Registered
JVC NZ8, 2.35:1 125" screen, Marantz AV7705, 7.2.4 Def Tech speakers, Sunfire Theater Grand 400x7
Joined
·
3,599 Posts
I upgraded from an NEC HT1000 to the Ruby when it first came out. Big improvement when you watch a mostly HD material on a 10' screen. I'm sure that you'll be happy with most 1080p upgrades over the XGA HT1K.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Thanks Steve. Glad to hear that. I was all set to get the JVC RS1 but my receiver died on me (8 years old). When I went to replace the receiver, I realized that my speakers were pretty crummy. Got caught in the upgrade excitement and ended up buying a Denon 2807, B&W MD603 Mains and B&W LCR600 Centres. I wanted to get the Onkyo 805 but they cost too much in Canada. Hopefully the Denon will serve me well. I am going to keep my surrounds (Celestion) and my sub (Cerwin Vega) for now. Guess what that means, I need to save up again for the RS1. Oh well what can you do.


I will be upgrading my screen next to the Carada BW 110" and then to the RS1. Can't wait for this setup to be complete.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
366 Posts
I have an HT1000 and am getting anxious to upgrade. It was bought in 2003 and it was (and still is) an awesome PJ. But as we now have BR via a PS3 I am anxious to upgrade to a 1080P projector.


Any idea what a used NEC HT1000 is worth? It is in brand new condition and just put in the second bulb this week. So the bulb has maybe 2 hours on it. I realize thats a tough question. Brand new I believe they were going for $5500 but you know how that goes...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,068 Posts
I sold mine on ebay last summer. Listed it at $50 and it closed at $330 (iirc- but that could have included shipping). It was mint, with all the orig accessories and packaging, but the only bulb was over 2K hours and dim.

A year later with a new bulb, I would guess you could get about $400 for it. Just my gut feeling.
 
1 - 20 of 27 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top