anyone use a line conditioner with their projector?
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I am seriously considering it, but I haven't installed one yet. I do tend to get some squiggles from time to time that I believe to be power line related. I haven't at this point decided whether to go with a simple filter or a UPS.
Power conditioners will improve the picture if your power line is introducing issues. If it's already fairly clean, no you won't see much of a difference. Power conditioners fix problems, they generally don't make a good situation better, so I can see how some people would see miraculous improvements and others might see nothing.
Power lines are mostly susceptible to transient under/over voltage sags and momentary spikes... and deadly lightning strikes. Mostly, power line interruptions cause transient image distortions, not usually steady-state noise and such. While they can carry high frequency noise, and do in some places, that usually does not get through most internal power supplies. For example, if you live near a powerful TV transmitter site or a HAM radio operator you may find that everything in you house is saturated with noise, it really depends on every individuals specific situation.
I have a few rater fancy UPS boxes protecting my workstations and servers. One thing they do is track the incoming line condition. If you have a look at the logs you can see all kinds of unpleasant transient issues with the power at my location.
Also, power conditioners are not specific to the Home Theater or Computer industry, they are used all over. I have noticed that the moment you walk into a Home Theater or Computer retailer suddenly the price takes a huge jump. I find better value in equipment that isn't specifically targeting those niches. APC makes a full line of power conditioning equipment. It ranges anywhere from simple personal home equipment to huge UPS systems that will run whole telephone switching offices. There are many other companies that have similar offerings. My preference is usually to go with this type of equipment from companies that have a lot or experience in the overall market, and not just in a niche.
-Ted-
While this post contains some scientific fact, it also expresses the opinion of the author. People are urged to use this information as a general guide, but to also demo equipment in their specific situation before making final purchasing decisions.
Power conditioners will improve the picture if your power line is introducing issues. If it's already fairly clean, no you won't see much of a difference. Power conditioners fix problems, they generally don't make a good situation better, so I can see how some people would see miraculous improvements and others might see nothing.
Power lines are mostly susceptible to transient under/over voltage sags and momentary spikes... and deadly lightning strikes. Mostly, power line interruptions cause transient image distortions, not usually steady-state noise and such. While they can carry high frequency noise, and do in some places, that usually does not get through most internal power supplies. For example, if you live near a powerful TV transmitter site or a HAM radio operator you may find that everything in you house is saturated with noise, it really depends on every individuals specific situation.
I have a few rater fancy UPS boxes protecting my workstations and servers. One thing they do is track the incoming line condition. If you have a look at the logs you can see all kinds of unpleasant transient issues with the power at my location.
Also, power conditioners are not specific to the Home Theater or Computer industry, they are used all over. I have noticed that the moment you walk into a Home Theater or Computer retailer suddenly the price takes a huge jump. I find better value in equipment that isn't specifically targeting those niches. APC makes a full line of power conditioning equipment. It ranges anywhere from simple personal home equipment to huge UPS systems that will run whole telephone switching offices. There are many other companies that have similar offerings. My preference is usually to go with this type of equipment from companies that have a lot or experience in the overall market, and not just in a niche.
-Ted-
While this post contains some scientific fact, it also expresses the opinion of the author. People are urged to use this information as a general guide, but to also demo equipment in their specific situation before making final purchasing decisions.
I have.
I found the most noticeable improvements to be better contrast and less noise resulting in a smoother picture.
Overall the picture is much more appealing.
[This message has been edited by LoFi (edited 09-26-2001).]
[This message has been edited by LoFi (edited 09-26-2001).]
I found the most noticeable improvements to be better contrast and less noise resulting in a smoother picture.
Overall the picture is much more appealing.
[This message has been edited by LoFi (edited 09-26-2001).]
[This message has been edited by LoFi (edited 09-26-2001).]
I have a Belkin UPS, with monitoring software, on my PC. (I'm thinking about putting something on my projector.) The "cleaned up" voltage isn't so clean... When the voltage drops below some threshold (maybe around 112 V), the UPS compensates by sending this big spike, up to like 125. In general, my voltage fluctuates around 115V. But if it drops too low, my PC will see this spike up to 125... It's not clear to me that this is good...
1 possibility is an on-line UPS, one that is constantly generating the power signal, so I imagine it should be pretty clean. But I'd want one that was physically small...
Mike
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Join the NYC-area HT club! Send me e-mail!
1 possibility is an on-line UPS, one that is constantly generating the power signal, so I imagine it should be pretty clean. But I'd want one that was physically small...
Mike
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Join the NYC-area HT club! Send me e-mail!
mflaster:
A large spike is not good, but, increasing to 125 vac is not harmful. A "spike" is usually considered to be a fast transient well in excess of 125 vac.
I was only thinking UPS because a power failure would shut the projector down with out a cool down cycle. I'm honestly not sure how damaging that would be during the one time that it might happen. I would only use it to have time to shut down, you would not want to run on UPS.
In realty, a UPS would not make a good conditioner at all. I shouldn't confuse the two issues. While there is overlap in functionality in that they will both down/up regulate (buck/boost), a UPS does not filter well and a conditioner provides no back up.
LoFi:
Which one are you using?
-Ted-
While this post contains some scientific fact, it also expresses the opinion of the author. People are urged to use this information as a general guide, but to also demo equipment in their specific situation before making final purchasing decisions.
A large spike is not good, but, increasing to 125 vac is not harmful. A "spike" is usually considered to be a fast transient well in excess of 125 vac.
I was only thinking UPS because a power failure would shut the projector down with out a cool down cycle. I'm honestly not sure how damaging that would be during the one time that it might happen. I would only use it to have time to shut down, you would not want to run on UPS.
In realty, a UPS would not make a good conditioner at all. I shouldn't confuse the two issues. While there is overlap in functionality in that they will both down/up regulate (buck/boost), a UPS does not filter well and a conditioner provides no back up.
LoFi:
Which one are you using?
-Ted-
While this post contains some scientific fact, it also expresses the opinion of the author. People are urged to use this information as a general guide, but to also demo equipment in their specific situation before making final purchasing decisions.
Quote:
I'm using one (and three others for my dvd player, surround sound system and subwoofer) made by my friends. They operate a wholesale business of electrical and mechanical hardware and accessories but do these things as a hobby.
I'll check with them about the spec of the conditioner and get back to you asap.
Regards
[This message has been edited by LoFi (edited 09-27-2001).]
| Originally posted by tlum: LoFi: Which one are you using? -Ted- |
I'll check with them about the spec of the conditioner and get back to you asap.
Regards
[This message has been edited by LoFi (edited 09-27-2001).]
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I use a Blue Circle BC-84 with my Proxima DX3, and I also tried it on a G11. There was a slight, but noticable improvement in brightness, contrast, and colour saturation.
A Harmonic Tech Pro-11AC power cord also yields similar improvements on my DX3 and G11. As my DX3 uses a small "Figure-8" power connector, I attached the approprieate end on my HT Pro-11AC.
Then, if your are really crazy, install some Bybee devices on the power cord like I did http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
The end result: power condtioning will improve your picture.
I also have a PS Audio P600, but it is a long way away from my projector so I don't use it.
- Andy
A Harmonic Tech Pro-11AC power cord also yields similar improvements on my DX3 and G11. As my DX3 uses a small "Figure-8" power connector, I attached the approprieate end on my HT Pro-11AC.
Then, if your are really crazy, install some Bybee devices on the power cord like I did http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
The end result: power condtioning will improve your picture.
I also have a PS Audio P600, but it is a long way away from my projector so I don't use it.
- Andy
I installed a few Line-R 1250 conditioners/spike suppressors from APC. One for the projector and HTPC, and one for some of the audio components. I got them cheap because of the dell price discount and free shipping deals that were running recently. The power here is pretty crummy and goes off and on quite a bit. I noticed a decent improvement in contrast and saturation with it installed. The biggest thing I noticed is that it removed a lot of digital hash in my picture. It's very very smooth now. Definitely worth the pennies the conditioners cost.
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Shane
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Shane
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I am using two Richard Gray Power Company(s) with my CRT. It made a noticeable difference. The contrast improved a lot, blacks got noticeably darker with a punchier image. Colors are more saturated. Also have my audio system hooked up to it. The focus improved quite a bit and depth was improved a lot. Was well worth the bucks.
Has anyone looked at the output of some of the less expensive voltage regulators/filters (i.e. from Tripplite, APC, etc.) through an oscilloscope? I'm just curious if anyone has any advice about how the waveform is improved, and which brand does it the best, or are they all the same.
I'd think something like an online UPS, which actually generates the signal all the time, would be ideal. But no need for battery backup...
Mike
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Join the NYC-area HT club! Send me e-mail!
I'd think something like an online UPS, which actually generates the signal all the time, would be ideal. But no need for battery backup...
Mike
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Join the NYC-area HT club! Send me e-mail!
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The picture on my Toshiba widescreen HDTV definitely improved with the insertion of a Monster HTS-3500 power conditioner. There was less hash and deeper blacks, but it was not a dramatic difference. It still makes sense to protect your investment from power surges, so why not use a power conditioner to do just that as well? The Monster HTS-2000 has gotten some pretty good reviews, and is very reasonably priced.
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I use a Tripp-Lite 2400 LCR (rack mount) that covers 2400 watts and adjusts the power to a constant level. Had one on my Sony CRT, and have one now on my D-ILA. I can't say that I've noticed any improvements in picture, but I didn't buy it for that. I bought it to protect against fried equipment.
Cost me $250. I'm sure the other pricey products work too, but if you have that bad of a power problem, ta hell with some add on equipment, get an electrician out to your place immediately, it's not just your HT equipment that's being affected...
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*always looking for Hi-Vision laserdiscs*
Cost me $250. I'm sure the other pricey products work too, but if you have that bad of a power problem, ta hell with some add on equipment, get an electrician out to your place immediately, it's not just your HT equipment that's being affected...
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*always looking for Hi-Vision laserdiscs*
Quote:
It's not really about small power fluctuations. AC power, can, and sometimes does, carry higher freqency noise. In theory, if that noise goes unfiltered and gets through the power supply on a projector (or DVD player for that matter), it could cause noise in the picture. That noise would probably also cause blacks to be not as black.
The thing to remember is that this noise does not come from the power company, it's something that the power lines pick up on the way to your home, most likely real near, if not in your home, since it will attenuate rather quickly.
Some in-home offending equipment might be:
X-10 home control system.
Lamp dimmers.
Phones or intercoms which connect to each other using the AC power line.
Some motors and compressors.
Badly designed switch mode power supplies in computers and other equipment.
etc, etc.
If you have a near by noise source and it's causing issues a conditioner may resolve it.
Also, the filtering on the power supply of equipment is a point to remember. Like projectors, no two power supplies are created equal, and each will inherently have different degrees of AC noise immunity.
As a result you get people who swear by huge improvements, where others can see none. It would be invalid to assert that a conditioner is a must-have add-on for 100% of the people. Just as it would be invalid to assert that conditioners causing improvements are in someone's imagination.
Best way to find out; pick up one you can return and try it out.
-Ted-
| ...by fewer or smaller voltage fluctuations? |
The thing to remember is that this noise does not come from the power company, it's something that the power lines pick up on the way to your home, most likely real near, if not in your home, since it will attenuate rather quickly.
Some in-home offending equipment might be:
X-10 home control system.
Lamp dimmers.
Phones or intercoms which connect to each other using the AC power line.
Some motors and compressors.
Badly designed switch mode power supplies in computers and other equipment.
etc, etc.
If you have a near by noise source and it's causing issues a conditioner may resolve it.
Also, the filtering on the power supply of equipment is a point to remember. Like projectors, no two power supplies are created equal, and each will inherently have different degrees of AC noise immunity.
As a result you get people who swear by huge improvements, where others can see none. It would be invalid to assert that a conditioner is a must-have add-on for 100% of the people. Just as it would be invalid to assert that conditioners causing improvements are in someone's imagination.
Best way to find out; pick up one you can return and try it out.
-Ted-
I've been using a UPS with my digital recorders for quite awhile now, mostly to protect against momentary power losses that would disrupt a recording. The unit I'm using now is of the "fail over" variety -- it switches in if power dips, but isn't generating the sine wave most of the time.
However, my impending purchase of the Sharp 9000 will necessitate relocating my equipment (to make room for the screen) and I want to take this opportunity to increase my UPS capacity to deal with California's lovely power situation.
If possible, I'd like to get UPS's that are also power conditioners, but I'd like to not break the bank.
Anybody have any suggestions?
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Mike Kobb
(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)
However, my impending purchase of the Sharp 9000 will necessitate relocating my equipment (to make room for the screen) and I want to take this opportunity to increase my UPS capacity to deal with California's lovely power situation.
If possible, I'd like to get UPS's that are also power conditioners, but I'd like to not break the bank.
Anybody have any suggestions?
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Mike Kobb
(Formerly "ReplayMike", but no longer affiliated with the company; these opinions are mine alone.)
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I use the Ultimate Outlet to feed my D-ILA G11U projector. I can't say that I noticed a whole heck of a lot of difference, but I haven't done any AB comparisons and the picture does look great.
Ideally I would like to have the PS Audio P600 to feed it, but for that kind of cash I will upgrade other items first.
Brian
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Our Home Theater... http://www.fatbulldog.com
Last updated 10/12/01
Ideally I would like to have the PS Audio P600 to feed it, but for that kind of cash I will upgrade other items first.
Brian
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Our Home Theater... http://www.fatbulldog.com
Last updated 10/12/01
To follow up on Joe's and Ted's posts, I recommended the power conditioners I'm using to 2 friends who use Barco Cine 7 PJs. They saw my HT and were impressed. There was no noticeable improvement to the projected image for 1 of them after the conditioner was hooked up with the PJ. He lives alone in a far off place in the countryside while my other friend and I live in the city.
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I just built my HT system, installed all the gear in a closet. I plugged it all in, with my Tivo and Projector the only things running through an APC UPS. Any source has 60Hz hum rolling through it. I can put a two prong ground lift on the UPS and the powerstrip I have feeding the rest of the components (VCR, DSS, Recevier), and the hum is gone. But I don't feel too safe lifting the ground. Any other way I can get rid of the hum? It is there on both the S-video and RCA video inputs of the projector.
thanks!
Paul
thanks!
Paul
Quote:
That sounds like a ground loop. I would suggest that you try running everything through the UPS.
Also, is everything plugged into the same outlet? If not, try to make sure that all equipment connects to the same ground at the same outlet.
Also, try to be sure that the shields on the cable and the equipment chassis themselves are not inadvertently hitting another ground; i.e. metal pipe, metal rack sitting on concrete, etc.
-Ted-
| I can put a two prong ground lift on the UPS and the powerstrip I have feeding the rest of the components (VCR, DSS, Recevier), and the hum is gone. |
Also, is everything plugged into the same outlet? If not, try to make sure that all equipment connects to the same ground at the same outlet.
Also, try to be sure that the shields on the cable and the equipment chassis themselves are not inadvertently hitting another ground; i.e. metal pipe, metal rack sitting on concrete, etc.
-Ted-
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