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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Guys I've been somewhat out of the loop in recent years. I purchased my 5080HD about three years ago. Love this tv, I realize its not 1080p but frankly, I've yet to see anything on the market today or since then (other than the others in the KURO line) that can top the overall PQ of my set.


Obviously this would be somewhat debatable, but generally speaking I get nothing but great info and data from this site.


So I thought I would ask, if anything Panny is doing (or sammy for that matter) next year may unseat my 5080? Black levels today still can't seem to get consistently dark like my Pio. I'm somewhat interested in upgrading to a 54, 58 or 60 inch set but do NOT want to sacrifice PQ.


I'm pretty happy with this set so an upgrade is not on the horizon, but I have been kicking the idea around just a bit as of late.


Thoughts?
 

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I sold my 5080HD to a friend of mine and purchased a pn58C7000. I'm really happy with the quality of the video, and the larger screen. I don't miss the Pioneer. I watched Alien and Aliens in Bluray this weekend and I was absolutely floored. Sure, in some scenes the Pio was darker, but the Samsung is plenty dark, and I can still discern most of the shadow detail in these two very dark films. I actually watched Aliens in the 2D>3D mode and was simply amazed at how much more realistic the film looked. I wouldn't go back.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by rontonio /forum/post/19535235


I sold my 5080HD to a friend of mine and purchased a pn58C7000. I'm really happy with the quality of the video, and the larger screen. I don't miss the Pioneer. I watched Alien and Aliens in Bluray this weekend and I was absolutely floored. Sure, in some scenes the Pio was darker, but the Samsung is plenty dark, and I can still discern most of the shadow detail in these two very dark films. I actually watched Aliens in the 2D>3D mode and was simply amazed at how much more realistic the film looked. I wouldn't go back.

Interesting, because the 7000 and 8000 were side by side and ISF calibrated at my local magnolia along with a couple of Panasonics. The Panny's looked good but really for the first time in a long time the Samsung looked better to me and it rivalved my TV...at least that seemed to be the case. The processing was just better on the sammy, or so it seemed...


The store is never a good place to judge a tv, but it was convenient they had the two top sammy's and two top panny's side by side for instant comparison. I played around with the various picture settings and in all cases I felt the sammy's had better pictures than the pannys...marginally better, but still better. The panasonics seemed to float the black level fairly often...the samsung's seemed more solid and when it came to picking up small details and shadow detail the Sammy's once again edged out the panny's...at least to my eyes...


Hopefully next year we'll see improvements in both lines and perhaps some power efficiency gains as well. If they can knock the blacks down to .004 to .006 and have them STABLE I think that would be the point I jump in. I believe the 5080 calibrated is .008 and my black levels haven't changed at all, at least not that I can tell and I am pretty particular about that stuff. .004 would cut the dark room glow down significantly and puts it on par with some of the pioneer elites and the 5020's if my memory is functioning properly
 

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Yes.


Samsung plasmas have about the same black level as the 5080 and are 1080p too. The C8000 also has a better ambient light filter so blacks look good in almost all conditions.


Panasonic VT (.004 black level) is superior to the 5080 but in a year or two, blacks will triple, so that's your call.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by H_Prestige /forum/post/19537396


Yes.


Samsung plasmas have about the same black level as the 5080 and are 1080p too. The C8000 also has a better ambient light filter so blacks look good in almost all conditions.


Panasonic VT (.004 black level) is superior to the 5080 but in a year or two, blacks will triple, so that's your call.

I should have noted, the two tv's on display next to the Samsungs were the G series and the S series. So I was unable to compare the VT side by side. It was on display but it was in a seperate room with different source material. The G series seemed to be pretty bad in comparison with the other three. The S series offered a good picture but there was some noise and a grainy aspect to the picture that is hard to explain. It's like the image was overprocessed and soft if that makes sense. Not sure if the same thing would be visible in the a side by side with the 8000 and the VT series...


But I won't buy anything until next years models come out and can be evaluated. But I was struck at how good the PQ was on those samsung's in particular.
 

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My advice is wait for a larger size display to come available with equal or better picture. 1080p isn't automatically better than 720p for TVs unless you're using it as a computer monitor. 720p sets get that stigma because most available now are gimped, cheapo versions so people look at them, see more expensive 1080p sets, and make the assumption that 1080p is always better. It depends on how old and how good the 720p set is.


In your case, there's very little need to upgrade except for getting something larger... and again, you're best bet is just waiting till they come out with something that actually gives your set a run for its money with no baggage attached.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by dlplover
My advice is wait for a larger size display to come available with equal or better picture. 1080p isn't automatically better than 720p for TVs unless you're using it as a computer monitor. 720p sets get that stigma because most available now are gimped, cheapo versions so people look at them, see more expensive 1080p sets, and make the assumption that 1080p is always better. It depends on how old and how good the 720p set is.


In your case, there's very little need to upgrade except for getting something larger... and again, you're best bet is just waiting till they come out with something that actually gives your set a run for its money with no baggage attached.
Whatever I buy next will be bigger than my 50. My 720p set looks better than most everything if not everything on the market today...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_Prestige
Panasonic VT (.004 black level) is superior to the 5080 but in a year or two, blacks will triple, so that's your call.
This is getting old. It might someday triple but the tests show so far it will be slightly less than double after 2 year average of tv watching.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by neoshredder27
This is getting old. It might someday triple but the tests show so far it will be slightly less than double after 2 year average of tv watching.
Double after two years is pretty substantial. .008 is still respectable though...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 6SpeedTA95
Double after two years is pretty substantial. .008 is still respectable though...
.007. I think that is good enough after 2 years to consider. The price is huge though but if I had the money, that would be my choice.
 

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According to the December article in Home Theater Magazine in a test specifically done by Thomas Norton in response to the Panasonic darkening issue the following results were seen. At the start levels were 0.008. After 2700 hours levels were 0.008-0.009. After two days he re-measured and found the level to be 0.010-0.011. After 24 hours it stabilized at the 0.009-0.010 level.
 

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Sure, you can wait until next year or the year after to get a new plasma, or you can just buy one now for a good price since the 2010 plasmas are near the end of their cycle. Believe me, the blacks and the shadow detail are such that you will be satisfied with your purchase. The colors are gorgeous. I'm to the point that if displays don't get any better, I'll be all right with it. They are way better than the local cinema, and so good already that it takes no effort to forget the black level numbers and get into the film. Isn't that what it is all about? Involvement? Enjoyment?

I went through the same exercise when I purchased the C7000 last week. If I waited until next year, the prices of what will certainly be marginally better screens (at best) wouldn't drop to levels that I could justify until at least next summer. I didn't want to wait until summer. Oh, and at that point maybe I should wait until 2012 for the "next big thing"?

Believe me, any top line plasma will make you happy. The Kuro was really good, but the screen just wasn't big enough. Don't over think this or you'll get stuck in specifications hell.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by neoshredder27
This is getting old. It might someday triple but the tests show so far it will be slightly less than double after 2 year average of tv watching.
I thought CNET's samples almost doubled after 1 year of use.


At any rate, it is a pretty significant change going from Pioneer 8G Elite black levels to 2010 Samsung/4280 Kuro black levels. Not that those have bad black levels or anything, so I still recommend the VT25 so long as you know the nature of the product and what will happen eventually.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy sullivan
According to the December article in Home Theater Magazine in a test specifically done by Thomas Norton in response to the Panasonic darkening issue the following results were seen. At the start levels were 0.008. After 2700 hours levels were 0.008-0.009. After two days he re-measured and found the level to be 0.010-0.011. After 24 hours it stabilized at the 0.009-0.010 level.
This is kind of weird. CNET's samples pretty much doubled with less than 2000 hours. Did Panasonic make some further optimizations after April?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by H_Prestige /forum/post/19540285


This is kind of weird. CNET's samples pretty much doubled with less than 2000 hours. Did Panasonic make some further optimizations after April?

I wish that I could ad more insight. The article is in the December issue of Home Theater Magazine. According to the author, Thomas Norton, because he had received so many inquiries from readers regarding the darkening problem with Panasonic Plasmas he asked Panasonic if he could keep the TC-P50G20, reviewed in the August 2010 issue and do some long term testing. Panasonic agreed. The test began with the G20 having 175 hours on it and using the Minolta LS-100 light meter the Panasonic was fed a mid-brightness, full-white field at 40 to 60 IRE, beginning with the same picture setting (THX Picture Mode) used in the original review. The set was run 24/7 until it accumulated 2700 hours.

His conclusion is "you are not likely to spot this degree of increase unless it happened just as you were watching a full-black image on the screen.
 
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