[chap]

I currently have the Dish 5000 and the Hi-Pix. I know that Dish Network is coming out with some PVR products that can do HD, but does DirecTV have anything in the future even scheduled? Now that DirecTV FINALLY got showtime I have no need to carry both DirecTV (which I only had for HDNET)and Dishnetwork (which I originally got for Showtime, and then got a Dish 5000 to record with).


I actually haven't recorded anything in a while, but in the event that I do want to record I just like having the option.

 

[h2ofun]

169time is in active development.


dave

 

[chap]

Dave,


I don't suppose they have an actual time frame for that do they?

 

[Allen Fleener]

Chap


The current issue of A/V interiors mentions a JVC dish network box with firewire out to hookup their dvhs deck to, due sometime this year. Is that a huge tease or what?

 

[h2ofun]

Chap, not come on. 169time made that mistake before I came into the picture. Done is done. I can tell you that RIchard is working full time on this project, I am putting in way way too much time myself for a hobby, and others are working on the effort too. I told RIchard last night that I cant wait until I can write on this board that I have my first HDnet tape from the dtc100. Its coming. That first step will probably be a lab enviornment but at least it will prove he can do it. I am pushing Richard as hard as I can to get this feature done. And it will be since no one else has said they have the knowledge to do it that I have read. It is very technical what he is going to do which makes it all the more fun to watch. All I can say are the folks that have supported 169 by having a unit already will be the first ones that will be able to get their hands on this when its ready.


Dave

 

[chap]

Dave,


I wasn't trying to take a shot at 169 or anything if thats what u thought. I was honestly interested in knowing if there was a time frame for when it would be released. Till then (or unless someone else comes out with a scenario) I will keep Dish.

 

[h2ofun]

If I could say a real time frame for direct, I would know the stock market and would be retired. No way is 169 going to make the same mistakes in the past with a promise and then it doesnt pan out.


Again, all I can say is work is being done full time. Can anyone else say a product is being worked on that will do direct?


Dave

 

[chap]

Dave,


Thats what I'm trying to find out . Maybe DirecTV will cave in and make there own product.

 

[Dylan Savage]

Why doesn't anybody just make a component -> 8VSB modulator (like an RF modulator for composite video, only up-sized) so that we could record ANY HD signal with a hipix?


Is there something about this that is impossible/too hard? Seems alot easier than a $1500+ mod to an STB.

 

[h2ofun]

If it was easy, they would be all over the place.

The big boys currently wont touch because of the politics.


Dave

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Soon you will not be able to use your Dish 5000 with your HiPix to record HD.


Check this out http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3537

 

[h2ofun]

go 169, go 169 )


dave

 

[mikey mo]

Politics is right. I just learned that "Commercial Advance" is no longer included on new VCR's.

 

[Dylan Savage]

Dave.. what exactly is an 8VSB stream? Is it mpeg-2? Is it some kind of digital representation of analog? I guess a few details would help me figure out how hard it would be to build such a thing.

 

[jacmyoung]

Quote:

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski Soon you will not be able to use your Dish 5000 with your HiPix to record HD. Check this out http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3537

We know this day will come eventually, we also know the 5000/mod users will band together to prevent the signal switch by court order if necessary, until a satisfactory solution is provided to them

 

[h2ofun]

Dylan, you will have to get from others the techincal stuff on 8VSB.

I assume you can search on the net.


dave

 

[PVR]

>> Why doesn't anybody just make a component -> 8VSB

>> modulator (like an RF modulator

>> for composite video, only up-sized)

>> so that we could record ANY HD signal with a hipix?


Aside from politics, there are a few (major) practical problems.

The component outputs are high bandwidth uncompressed

analog outputs, so you would need very expensive

"signal capture" hardware to get the HD back into

a digital form. Then you would need a very expensive

HD MPEG2 encoder to re-encode it. Then you would need

the elusive 8VSB modulator to put an ATSC wrapper on

the MPEG2 and broadcast it as an RF signal.


Even with all that you would have reduced the picture

quality by doing digital -> analog -> digital.


I wonder if there might be some high end commercial

products that are designed to (for instance) let

someone distribute HDnet on a cable system or to

an apartment complex? Like something from Drake?
http://www.rldrake.com/digital/index.html


>> what exactly is an 8VSB stream?

>> Is it mpeg-2? Is it some kind of digital

>> representation of analog?


8VSB suggests that it is an ATSC datastream

which has been "modulated" for RF broadcast

on the OTA frequency spectrum. The Dish modulators

output the ATSC stream as an 8VSB signal on chan 3 or 4.

(there were some early prototype dish modulators which

did UHF like chan 14 or something).


The ATSC datastream is a 188 byte packet format which

can pass along multiple MPEG2 datastreams (video and

audio) as well as data broadcasts, program guide info

and things like that.

 

[Chris Williams]

Quote:

Originally posted by PVR 8VSB suggests that it is an ATSC datastream which has been "modulated" for RF broadcast on the OTA frequency spectrum. The Dish modulators output the ATSC stream as an 8VSB signal on chan 3 or 4. (there were some early prototype dish modulators which did UHF like chan 14 or something).

For a long time, one of the only HD sources available to retailers was the Sencore HD Simulator . This was a Windows 98 or NT based box with a hard disk and a couple of special-purpose PCI cards. One of which was a RF modulator that put out an 8VSB signal on channel 14/15.


A company as small as Sencore could produce a 8VSB modulator for a market as small as HD electronics retailing - numbering only a few hundred units. This indicates several things:


Someone made standard chips for modulating a transport stream to RF.


It's not insanely expensive to do so.


I can take pictures of this board if anyone is interested.

 

[FredV]

Quote:

Originally posted by Chris Williams Someone made standard chips for modulating a transport stream to RF. It's not insanely expensive to do so.

Right, modulating to 8VSB is not the issue, it's cheap and easy. The issue is getting from the uncompressed component analog to the highly compressed MPEG2 data in the ATSC stream. That's very hard and very expensive.


The Sencor and the $300 Dish modulator are simply modulating an existing ATSC stream, a relatively trivial task.

- Fred

 

[Glimmie]

Quote:

Originally posted by FredV Right, modulating to 8VSB is not the issue, it's cheap and easy. The issue is getting from the uncompressed component analog to the highly compressed MPEG2 data in the ATSC stream. That's very hard and very expensive. The Sencor and the $300 Dish modulator are simply modulating an existing ATSC stream, a relatively trivial task. - Fred

FYI, Zenith does amke a single chip ATSC 8vsb modulator chip. It does however need MPEG2 input. It's in their WEB site. You can by one for $100 and some license agreement.


Dish uses this part in the HDTV modulator. If you really want one to play with, rather than pay Zenith, just wait. There should be plenty of modulators on EBAY for $1.00 and 0 bids if the change happens.