[ImDiesel]

anyone using one of these...?


your opinions...?


I'm looking at the J-10 or J-15...


the S series is crazy money, and serious overkill for what my HT will be...


i purchased that $500 Monster box from CC for $300 a couple of days ago, but don't know if the APC would be a better deal, with the battery back up, so i could save my games incase of a power loss...

 

[sptrout]

I am using a J15 to power my HT system and I am very pleased with its operation. I bought it when I upgraded my HT system late last summer so I thought that while I was rebuilding/recabling everything that I might as well add a UPS as well.


It is very handy to have a common connection point for all external connections (AC, telephone circuit, OTA & DirecTV cables, etc). I am surprised how much the filtering circuits "kick-in," much more than I would have expected since I live in the Houston area. The UPS function has only been needed a couple times so far, oddly the first time was when I was on the phone with DirecTV to setup my new HR20 account. The system never blinked, even though I lost AC for several seconds.

 

[ImDiesel]

thanks for the input...


is the difference between the J10 and J15 only the amount of battery backup time...?

 

[sptrout]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ImDiesel /forum/post/0


thanks for the input...


is the difference between the J10 and J15 only the amount of battery backup time...?

Yes


Following is a paper that I wrote a few months ago, but never posted. It will give you a better idea of real world loads. (BTW - - I have since removed my subwoofer from the UPS system just to make sure that it was not overloading the APC System, although I never saw anything that would lead me to believe that is was. Just seems like it should be........).


I have seen several questions in this forum about how to size a UPS for a home theatre system. Unfortunately, there is no easy answer and it is difficult to calculate the required UPS size needed based on the manufacturer's specification sheets, which are typically worst-case numbers.


I have a power conditioning system/UPS manufactured by APC (Model J15), which is rated at 835 Watts. I use this unit to power my entire HT system. My original intent when I ordered this unit was to have the J15 only power the TV and a few other items since, according to the specification pages, I would easily overload the J15. However, having everything powered from a single point was just too tempting not to try.

http://www.apc.com/resource/include/...m?base_sku=J15


One of the many features of this system is a built-in Watt meter that constantly shows the power being supplied by the unit to the HT system. I thought that it might be helpful to some readers if I published the results of some testing I did today.


First a list of items that are power by the J15, including the power requirements from the specifications sheets if available:

1. Samsung HL-S6188 DPL TV (230W)

2. Denon AVR-3300 Receiver (~645W)

3. DirecTV HR-20 DVR (power requirements not available)

4. Oppo 971 DVD Player (20W)

5. Sony SLV-N750 VCR (16W)

6. HSU-VTF MK2 Subwoofer (recommended outlet power: 430W)

7. RCA amplifier/splitter for OTA distribution (power unknown, but very minor)


As previously mentioned, all of these devices are connected to the J15 Power System. It would appear that the sum of all the power requirements of the devices listed above would easily overload the J15, but let's look at some real power output measurements based on several viewing scenarios.


1. Everything off (actually standby since none of these devices can be actually completely turned-off without pulling the plug): 103 Watts, 12% of rated capacity.

2. TV Only: 198 Watts, 23% of capacity

3. TV & HR-20: 302 Watts, 35% of capacity

4. Same as #3, but with the Denon Receiver turned-on at a comfortable to high listing level: 336 - 380Watts, 39 - 44% capacity. (Minimal subwoofer activity.)

5. TV, Oppo 971, and Denon Receiver while playing the famous depth-charging chapter (#15) in U571: Total peak power noted was 535 Watts, 62% of capacity. Very loud in a 6000 cubic foot room.


Obviously, these numbers can vary depending on the particular situation, especially the power needed by the subwoofer and the receiver. They also assume that the power meter in the J15 is accurate and can keep-up with fast changing loads. However, in my case, I appear to be below the rated capacity of the J15 during all viewing scenarios with plenty of headroom for expansion.

 

[ImDiesel]

great post...

 

[mdryja]

I have one of these units (APC J15), too. The watt meter has been great fun. We have a Zektor DVI switcher, an Oppo DVD player, a Tivo Series3, an HTPC, and an Arcam receiver hooked up to it. Rarely do I go above 220 watts or so. (The plasma and the subwoofer are too far away to connect to it.)


What I've noticed is that whenever the plasma is on (which is on the same branch circuit from the panel), the J15 starts regulating the voltage. It filters the voltage about 2/3's of the time when the receiver is on.


I originally bought the unit mainly because I wanted a UPS for the HTPC and the Tivo Series3. I needed something that would "look good" in an AV rack, as I don't have the space to put a UPS behind the rack, and the J15 fit the bill. Frankly, the J10 would more than likely have been more than sufficient, but I added up the total power needed of all our components (theoretical maximums), and was worried we were coming too close, which turned out to be an unneeded worry . . . . Both of these units are pricey, but I have been very pleased with APC's computer-oriented UPS's over the years (and the ability to get replacement batteries even for one of our UPS's that is 9 years old!).


- Mike.

 

[bajanjack]

As previously mentioned, all of these devices are connected to the J15 Power System. It would appear that the sum of all the power requirements of the devices listed above would easily overload the J15, but let's look at some real power output measurements based on several viewing scenarios.


1. Everything off (actually standby since none of these devices can be actually completely turned-off without pulling the plug): 103 Watts, 12% of rated capacity.

2. TV Only: 198 Watts, 23% of capacity

3. TV & HR-20: 302 Watts, 35% of capacity

4. Same as #3, but with the Denon Receiver turned-on at a comfortable to high listing level: 336 - 380Watts, 39 - 44% capacity. (Minimal subwoofer activity.)

5. TV, Oppo 971, and Denon Receiver while playing the famous depth-charging chapter (#15) in U571: Total peak power noted was 535 Watts, 62% of capacity. Very loud in a 6000 cubic foot room.


Obviously, these numbers can vary depending on the particular situation, especially the power needed by the subwoofer and the receiver. They also assume that the power meter in the J15 is accurate and can keep-up with fast changing loads. However, in my case, I appear to be below the rated capacity of the J15 during all viewing scenarios with plenty of headroom for expansion.[/quote]


Very useful info....I have a LP Generator for my home which kicks in within 1+ minute of a power outage. If my equipment & usage is similar to yours, any suggestions as to how that would impact my choice of a UPS and what I should consider selecting?

 

[jwatte]

> 100 watts when on stand-by? Ouch. That's several kilowatt hours per day in waste.


I don't like the APC units, as I've had some bad experience with them. I have good experience with a 1500 VA CyberPower, 19 inch rackmount, and I've recently picked up a 1500 VA "Geek Squad" brand UPS from BB, which so far has been doing fine (and has a black/silver look) for some other equipment.


One reason to over-supply is to make sure that the UPS won't run too hot, and that it'll run for a longer time when there is an outage.

 

[lflorack]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sptrout /forum/post/9538060


Following is a paper that I wrote a few months ago, but never posted. It will give you a better idea of real world loads.


[snip some very useful information for brevity]

Excellent post! I have the same J15 unit and it does a great job with my system as well. Here's the powered equipment on the J15:

Sony: KDS-R60XBR1 Yamaha: RX-V657/DVD-S2500/CDC-685 Klipsch: RSX-5's/RSX-4's/RVX-42/RW-10 (Sub-woofer is not plugged into the J15) DirecTV: HR20 APC: J15


My standby load is 7% or about 60w -- mostly from the DVR in standby and a small cooling fan for it. I'm sure the TV (in standby too) is drawing a small amount too. With the TV, DVD, DVR & Receiver running. it is loaded to about 37%-45%.

 

[ralfwolf]

I opted not to go with a ups for my receiver. Mainly because 5+ years ago, there weren't any true AV ups units. I blew one of the amps on my B&K 307 due to a brown-out.. *not* a surge. Did some research and discovered that brown outs (extended voltage dips) can be more damaging (for amps) and harder to prevent than surges or voltage rises. Brown outs are also a big problem where I live so I had to find a solution. Most UPS units are limited in the amount of dynamic current you can draw. For instance even the J15 is a 1500VA (a little less than 900W) unit. That's less than 15A which is what some amps actually require to provide maximum output during audio peaks. In practice it's doubtful you'll need that. What I ended up doing was getting a dedicated circuit run for the HT and then purchased a Furman AC voltage regulator(AVR)/line conditioner. I haven't had an issue since and I do hear the regulator kick in. It operates using a feedback controlled servo driven variac so it does hum when in regulation mode. The advantage to this is full 15A service (no power factor) and very fast response. I think only full-time online UPS units can beat the response for voltage rises and dips.

 

[piazza]

I have two whole-house AVRs in use - one for conversion to 110V for my AC outlets and stablizing 220V appliances throughout the house, and one for 220V voltage-regulation and 110V for my audio/video equipment (dedicated audio room and A/V rack in living room). The AVRs are the PowerVar ABC 3800 2S. Big units that can handle more, as i have future plans for expamsion


Anyway, my question is regarding the chain when using a UPS and AVR. My APC UPS units (200w?) that I have on my PC setups state in the documentation that the UPS should not be plugged into an AVR, but directly into the wall AC outltet. Is it not okay to run the UPS off the 110V output of the AVR? (A UPS solution to power the 3800 AVR is too costly and not needed.) I want to simply protect a few components - server, CAV6.6, amplifier, and LCD - that are all 110V. We have frequents brownouts and blackouts only last an average of a few minutes. I simply want to keep them running when the power goes off and on more than once in a short period.


Thanks!

 

[sptrout]



Quote:
Originally Posted by piazza /forum/post/16751398


Anyway, my question is regarding the chain when using a UPS and AVR. My APC UPS units (200w?) that I have on my PC setups state in the documentation that the UPS should not be plugged into an AVR, but directly into the wall AC outltet. Is it not okay to run the UPS off the 110V output of the AVR? (A UPS solution to power the 3800 AVR is too costly and not needed.) I want to simply protect a few components - server, CAV6.6, amplifier, and LCD - that are all 110V. We have frequents brownouts and blackouts only last an average of a few minutes. I simply want to keep them running when the power goes off and on more than once in a short period.


Thanks!

No, you should not connect a UPS to the AC output of an AVR. More than likely the power rating (wattage or current) of the AC outlet on your AVR is very low and intended to support only very low power consuming devices. In addititon to the normal steady-state current draw of a UPS, there is also a concern about the surge current that will be required if the UPS' batteries are depleted and then the power comes back on. Under these conditions the UPS must pass enough power through it to supply whatever you have connected to it, but also recharge the UPS' battteries.

 

[tvrgeek]

Search the forums a bit. This subject has been beat to death, but people still seem to want to waste their money.

 

[Splicer010]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ImDiesel /forum/post/9537858


thanks for the input...


is the difference between the J10 and J15 only the amount of battery backup time...?

In a sense yes...The J10 is 1000VA and the J15 is 1500VA...And obviously depending on the power draw thru the unit depends on the length of backup time available...

Quote:
Originally Posted by sptrout /forum/post/0


I am surprised how much the filtering circuits "kick-in," much more than I would have expected since I live in the Houston area.

The 'filtering circuits' are active 100% of the time...I think you meant the voltage regulation that "kicks in"...

 

[Splicer010]



Quote:
Originally Posted by tvrgeek /forum/post/16754750


Search the forums a bit. This subject has been beat to death, but people still seem to want to waste their money.

Yuppers...The ones who want to waste their money are the ones that think a power conditioner is a waste of money...

 

[Ratman]

A "power conditioner" is only good if you need your power conditioned for some reason. How does one know?


All situations are different, but most don't require more than a surge/spike suppressor.

 

[sptrout]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Splicer010 /forum/post/16754941


The 'filtering circuits' are active 100% of the time...I think you meant the voltage regulation that "kicks in"...

Yep, you are correct, and I am still suprised how many times the regulation circuits kick in! We have been having a heat wave here in Houston the past several weeks and the regulator "active" LED comes on frequently.

 

[Splicer010]

Mine does too...Normally one would think most don't require more than a surge/spike suppressor...Pretty amazing the things you learn about your power once one of these conditioners gets hooked up isn't it...

 

[tvrgeek]

I can make led's come on any time you want. It won't make it sound any better.

By the way, inside all your equipment, the first thing the power does is go into a REGULATOR. If that is not adequate for your raw house power, be mad at the manufacturer for not designing a unit to work within the intended environment.


The good news is, all these expensive conditioners don't really hurt anything, so by all means, go ahead. Well, they do waste power, so I guess they could be attacked from the green crowd. Just don't tell them how big you sub amp is!

 

[localnet]

Check these guys out http://www.refurbups.com/


I just bought a refurb rack mount unit from them for $289 + $20 shipping. An APC brand unit that normally retails for a grand +. I will install this weekend and see how it is, just got it yesterday. I would check them out.


Mike