[Shawn Pilichis]

The jerk-off record industry is at it again. Not only are we not allowed to share music amungst ourselves, we are not even permitted to see what album covers look like. I stopped by the http://www.cdcovers.cc/ site to get a few quality covers to add to my media server and I find this:

Quote:

The money hungry people at the RIAA / IFPI have made it very clear that they don't want us to host audio covers anymore. It’s all about money folks and although we are a profit free organization that runs on voluntary basis those scumbags don’t give up and want to shut us down through threatening our host. It’s been a great adventure but we cannot afford this anymore. Therefore we have decided to take the audio section offline for good. Thank you all for your support for the past 3 years. Please don't mail us for any covers - we've deleted all the artwork. It's gone for good.

There will be a war soon, the public vs. dictatorship. The industry has no right to go on our computers and control what we do nor do they have to the right to single out web sites that essentially are no different than Amazon.com.


So, aside from the hit and miss quality of pics from online retailers, where can one find quality covers?

 

[Dreamwriter]

They probably did it to stop people from getting nice quality CD covers that they can print and use to make a CD cover for their burned CD's.

 

[Shawn Pilichis]

That's obvious but why in the hell would they even care? They don't profit from the art, they profit from the content.

 

[Mr. Biggles]

Quote:

Originally posted by Shawn Pilichis So, aside from the hit and miss quality of pics from online retailers, where can one find quality covers?

One can go here and find alternative sites, but sadly cdcovers was the consumate one stop site. It's more a pain now but you can find them. With programs like Photoshop one can always resize the small thumbs found at most sites selling CD's and make them presentable...more work I know.



Bill H

 

[jamoka]

This is getting ridiculous. These pinhead actions just make normal people more likely to pirate, IMO.


Joe

 

[JeffDM]

Quote:

Originally posted by jamoka This is getting ridiculous. These pinhead actions just make normal people more likely to pirate, IMO.

I really don't see how it really would affect things either way. I don't see how it would help sales to not have the high quality cover scans available, and I don't see how it would hurt sales if they are available.

 

[jamoka]

Well, it made me want to go pirate something.


Joe

 

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

THe key here is that the copyright industry doesn't care if there is a direct effect on sales one way or the other. These guys make money by being in control (that control ultimately translating to pigopolistic pricing power). Anything that threatens their control will be attacked because they see it as a slipperly slope, they've already lost control of the cd disc format and watched that slide into a measurable erosion of the status quo. They will do anything they think will reduce further erosion of their control.

 

[Phat Phreddy]

While I was a fan of CDcovers.cc and even defended it due to content versus fluff arguments... The truth is the 'artist' or their backers / bankroller's pay for the photographers and every stage of the creation process... It is their 'work' and is not ours to play with (on one level) but...


The fact that amazon or any other can use it as a sales tool shows the inequality, but there you go...


While there are many aspects of the Internet under culture are in my moral code abhorrent, there are many justifiable reasons why we also need to take personal stands... Having retired from my last enterprise, I can see a need for a data haven industry... Self regulating (eg no youth porn / no hate sites / no inciteful or terror organizations) but 1st amendment style right of free speech (and by this I am not advocating WaReZ or other blatant IP theft) but the ability to be beyond the long arm of the RIAA / MPAA pressure (did I say lobby) groups... I have already raised this with Asian government officials but all fear the lack of backup or support from the US lead / Nato / IMF coalitions (whle at the same time making it cost me >50% import taxes to buy a region 1 DVD while I can get a clone copy for $4 !!!)...


It was a year or two ago but I wonder who among us read the 'Welcome to Sealand... Now F**k off' article in wired... or Niel Stevensons 'Cryptonomicon'.... Any VC's out there burnt by the current markets are welcome to hit me up... I have a diverse set of real connections in many countries that do not share the same US / Euro mindsets a little backing could go a long way in changing the way these things are controlled... China is still happy to walk alone and what happened to napsters IPO and investment money (not that I advocate napster per se ) need not have happened if they had chosen to offshore themselves !!!


Anyway... Its nearly dawn with me and I wonder if this is the right forum to rant in this manner... Still better to speak what you feel... even if I may have typo's I still always enjoy a little solid discorse (or discord) and given certain constraints (IP property is as valuable as real property and human exploitation is never justifiable) the old cleche of 'information wants to be free' is as true now as it was in 86 or 87 when the phrase was first coined....

 

[pen25]

the thing to do is support your local artists.. stop buying their cd's and stop listening to thier radio stations.. stop letting the radio stations and riaa control your listening habits.. if everyone gave up buying thier cd's this xmas and wrote a letter to the riaa and say this is being writen instead of a cd being bought cause you guys cannot control my shopping habits.. skip a concert and let the radio stations know you will not be listening to them if they continue to support the riaa scum bags by playing their music.. when there is a remote broadcast call the store and the stores homeoffice to let them know you would have shopped there but decided to goto (competiter) because the radio station was there and you do not support them.. build a website talking about how you feel about the riaa and thier ways.. call the state and national rep. and let them know you do not agree with the way the dmca is being used.. i didnt shop this weekend at any of the sales not because of the hastle but because of what the retailers did to sites like fatwallet..


now goto the local bar and support a local band and buy one of thier cd's and ask them if they mind if you share the cd with your friends and online.. let them know you wont share the entire thing but just a few songs.. I have friends in a few bands here that have asked me to share thier cd's.. they want to get the word out cause honestly they are good..

 

[Phat Phreddy]

While your points are valid... Not all musical experiences are obtainable locally and through grass roots channels... I have enormous respect for Blues Traveler / Blueground Undergrass / G Dead etc (even fish and others whose music does not tickle my funny bones) simply because they support the permissible trading of live concerts (Blues Travelers harmonica playing is sensational IMHO) and I think they have probably sold more records because of it...


I would argue that as we lead into a distribution medium that revolves around supporting artists rather than buying packaged pop pixies, that building communities of fans who gain benefit and perhaps the odd freebies actually gives the artist more kudos and loyalty (and in return revenue however it is collected)... To my mindset, the media giants that can put 5 teen turnons together and pay for the MTV airtime and promo's are the dinosaurs (I sincerely hope so) and online communities based around interaction with the artists concerned is the democratization / paradigm shift of of the new music distribution....


If you look at acts like Kruder and Drofmiester or even Thievery Corp who are real sonic engineers in thier own field (dubby / trip hop / sonic tapestries) and quite honest about their sample stealing / influences (are there any new musical ideas any more ??) these people have understood how to use the internet for their own gain... When they have a sample clearance it may end up on their CD's... When they refuse (like the stunning Madonna remix) they leak the MP3...


Then consider the whole UK bootleg scene... While many of these 'mash ups' are not much more than bedroom beatmix games, I still feel that 2ManyDJ's was one of the most influential and powerful albums of 2002 (as does David Bowie who hangs out on their message board (see Kylie recently do her vocals over an 80's track at the VMA's ??) and pimps them every chance he gets on UK radio)... These are songs which will never get the execs to say yes (Nirvana over Destiny's Child... Throw Dolly Parton with Lou Reed ??) yet cohesively it works (check www.2manydjs.org ) this innovation is what 'copyright' is taking from us... New and vibrant genres for the 21st century !!!!!


Sample driven, trainspotter (in the vinyl scense) new music... Record companies hate it... But if they fight too hard it will simply distribute itself...


(SIDE NOTE) Due to horrific complications of getting 45 tracks (or is it 46 ;-) ) cleared 2ManyDJ's (AKA the Flying Dawaley Bros AKA Samatha Fu AKA Soulwax... People I know from Belgium my old locale) only allowed to sell thier compliation inside the benelux... With a market that small it meant it had to be a lose money to make the record proposition... Yet they still did it !!!!

 

[cgmoore]

Pen25: amen, brother. Disco sucks. Memorex will never be as good as live! Never!


Gerald

 

[Phat Phreddy]

Another important aspect is that he RIAA and MPAA are controlling more than that last A... This is a worldwide culture and the net has facilitated this.... Yet the lobbying in Washington (and as HST would emphasize or even empathize, I am a un repentant political junkie) money talks and this is why we are faced with the fight over high rez DVD / every other transition to digital media... yet my guess is exactly like video never did kill the movie going public (or the radio star ; ) ... So will multiple VOD streams with provide them $$ like no other system they have ever had access too..


Its just a shame they want to fight the early adopter instead of use us as this consumer research division.... Lets be honest... Video never did kill the radio star !!!


Listening to: 'Danger! High Voltage' from '2 Many DJ's' by '2 Many DJ's' on Media Jukebox

 

[Dreamwriter]

What the music industry needs to do is embrace digital music, and make it their own, rather than fight it, try to do away with MP3's altogether. What I'm talking about is they should realize that the problem isn't going to go away, no matter how much they crack down, and instead they should startup services *selling* MP3's. I mean, think about it - as hard as it can be for the average joe to find an MP3 of a song they like nowadays, if there were a service where they could pay $1 and download it legally, tons of people would do that. I myself tend to not buy many CD's at all, because in most cases, there is one, maybe two songs on the CD I'll end up liking, and a ton that I don't. Heck, I just ran into that problem, I bought the DVD-A of Hotel California, and guess what, the only song on that that I like is, Hotel California. Now, $1 isn't much at all, I'm sure that's such a low price it would make it not worth someone's effort to go searching for a website or IRC channel or whatever with the song for free. And as CD's tend to cost $15, and have 10 to 15 songs on them, artists won't be making any less money that way, unless they fill their albums with trash filler. This would definitely stop them from doing that as well. Stores could even get MP3 "vending machines" in them: put in a $1, choose an MP3 and download it straight to your MP3 player.

 

[Phat Phreddy]

Well Dreamwriter, I am (nearly) your polar opposite... While I fully support what you say about many 'pop' albums having 1 -2 (possibly god forbid) 3 tracks that are listenable... I am still an album listener.... I do believe that real musicians (and that encompasses the electro world whatever 'old skool' analogue thinkers may feel...) make a strong attempt to structure an album as a single piece of work... The old literary adage of beginning / middle / end is also very important in an audio artwork...


In the shift to the downloadable music this is one thing I really dislike about the 'new media' phenomenon... Listen to Maceo Parker perform a set or (to totally jump genre's) Alien Soap Opera (an offshoot of The Orb + N African / Arab vocalists/ musicians) are two that instantly spring to my sleep deprived mind.... Neither of these can be listened to in a track by track fashion.... They are albums... They only gel and become cohesive (I strongly recommend ASO if you like the evolution of electronic music to new frontiers... Available through... [email protected] ... Again buddies of mine !!) but this is where 'pop' leading us... 2 - 3 tracks per albums worth hearing... The rest purely filler....


Could you imaging listening to P-Floyd 'The Wall' out of sequence ?? or even DSotM ?? They are musical journeys... This is why I dont like to collect MP3's and create playlists... If music is junk, it is junk... If it is created with passion / feeling / integrity, then I owe it to the creator to at least listen to what they feel is the correct sequence....


Forgive me for rambling.... Its now >11AM with me and sleep has not visited my fractured mind for 36 hours or so (damn this insomnia)... If I am making less sense than usual forgive me...

 

[BGPGuy]

If you are going to pirate something, then just do it and be quiet about it. Don't whine and act outraged when they take away access to something that is not legally yours to begin with. I find the logic behind this new generation scarier then the corporate controls. If someone finds a way to hack my credit card or bank account, I guess they have the right to take my money??? This sense of entitlement to something knowingly not your own is f****d up. If I pirate something, at least I can acknowledge it is wrong. I may still do it, but I will not create this illusion I am the good guy and it is rightfully mine.

 

[RussSchultz]

Boycotting concerts will hurt artists, not the record companies. Most bands make their money on touring and merchandise.

 

[pen25]

but if you boycot the concert they will stop letting the riaa do what they are doing.


as far as complaining about those who share??? I have over 1000 cd'sdo i dl some songs oh yea.. if it wasnt for kazaa napster i wouldnt have found hawaian music.. or arabic artists.. have i bought those cd's? yes i have.. but will i buy another metalica cd?? heck no i wont.. i download music to see if i will like the songs.. if i like them then i buy the cd.. if they are avid about stopping this then i wont buy thier stuff.. just as i will tell the local bands to play thier own music instead of covers.. as i will tell the club owner i would perfer to hear more orig music..


now back to the thread about dling cover art.. I can see if you are using the art for profit then it should be an issue.. the music industry fights something it cant control.. I love jimmy hendex but i wont buy any of the new albums as the estate doesnt get any money.. though i have almost all of his music alrrady..

 

[JJay]

Quote:

Originally posted by RussSchultz Boycotting concerts will hurt artists, not the record companies. Most bands make their money on touring and merchandise.

Actually this is not true--very few bands have tours that make money. Most tours are done in the hope it will spur enough record sales to recoup the studios upfront money and hopefully make it worth while to let the band make its next record.


Record sales, except for the mega bands who can make millions touring, is where any potential money making is at for bands. Publishing is non-recoupable and goes straight to the band (assuming they write their own songs) from record one sold.

 

[JJay]

Quote:

Originally posted by pen25 but if you boycot the concert they will stop letting the riaa do what they are doing. as far as complaining about those who share??? I have over 1000 cd'sdo i dl some songs oh yea.. if it wasnt for kazaa napster i wouldnt have found hawaian music.. or arabic artists.. have i bought those cd's? yes i have.. but will i buy another metalica cd?? heck no i wont.. i download music to see if i will like the songs.. if i like them then i buy the cd.. if they are avid about stopping this then i wont buy thier stuff.. just as i will tell the local bands to play thier own music instead of covers.. as i will tell the club owner i would perfer to hear more orig music..

The problem with your argument is the facts don't support it. I always hear this from people who try to justify the theft of intellectual property of others. Tens and tens of millions of songs were passed around on napster (and now kazaa and others) over the last few years by, greatly, the ability of college students access to high speed connections on college campuses. This amazingly astronomical surge in 'sharing' of music has not lead to the same incredible surge in cd sales--negating your rationale for pirating music.


And even if your argument was correct it still wouldn't matter. The fact of the matter is, buyers of music (and other IP) do not get to dictate to the musicians/labels how that music is distributed. And if the buyers disagree with that distribution method, it definitely does not give them a right to steal the songs--or as you say 'share'. Consumers have two choices--they can buy or not buy cds. If enough people choose to not buy, alternate distribution will be considered/implemented by the labels (which I'm all for BTW). Again, its not a right of consumers to come up with their own distribution path.


I have many problems with record labels looking from the artist relations side, but I understand that the labels up front millions of dollars to bands (most of which you have never, or ever will, hear of) and their only means of recouping that money is through record (cd) sales. And the only way a band will get to make another album is if it can show the potential to sell enough cds to recoup the up front costs of the label (in general). In fact, the lower revenue from less cd sales allows for less money to sign bands--especially those less mainstream sounding.


And not to be holier-than-thou, I have also pirated music and software. I don't however try to justify it by somehow saying its fighting the way its distributed--just like if I stole a Reese's I don't justify it by saying they should be packaged in 3 peanutbutter cups, not 2's or 4's.