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Apple to buy Tivo?

1900 Views 23 Replies 11 Participants Last post by rcliff, Mar 3, 2005

rcliff

Discussion Starter · Feb 24, 2005

Interesting speculation . If true, it would certainly jump start the Mac home theater interest.

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1 - 20 of 24 Posts

mooneydriver

· #2 · Feb 24, 2005

Interesting rumor. Perhaps Jobs can provide Tivo with one thing they really lack, a profitable business plan.

However, it doesn't make a lot of business sense for Apple. Tivo is overhyped and expensive and their technology is arguably inferior to ReplayTV (Replay owners have been happily skipping commercials and sharing shows over the internet for a few years now). ReplayTV has already been sold once at bargain basement prices and there is no indication that their business is recovering. I'd go after ReplayTV if I were Apple. Or even Elgato, even cheaper and less legacy product support baggage.

rcliff

Discussion Starter · #3 · Feb 24, 2005

The difference here is that Tivo has a brand name that consumers can relate to. Tivo has become a household name and Apple could potentially capitalize on that.

Joseph S

· #4 · Feb 24, 2005

I thought Apple was bankrupt and out of business for the umpteenth time?

They should really start running that "If your stock broker is so smart, then why is he still working?" ad more often.

jebel

· #5 · Feb 24, 2005

I also don't see the business sense in this for apple.

TiVo is losing money and its growth strategy has been called into question due to the rise of cheaper DVRs and losing market share. But as somebody mentioned, they got a recognizable name. Also, their relatively small market cap made them a takeover target.

I mean, a consumer electronics company that makes DVR units (or doesn't yet but it'd make sense) like a Sony or Motorolla, I'd understand. Or a media company like Time Warner, which could bolster its video services.

Wonder what Apple is planning to do with them.

pkscout

· #6 · Feb 24, 2005

Smith-Barney doesn't seem to think so . I'm glad at least one financial "analyst" hasn't bought into the hype. I'll eat this post if I'm wrong, but I don't see this happening.

jdcolombo

· #7 · Feb 25, 2005

I too doubt this will happen, but if it did, it would undoubtedly be for the software, not the hardware. Think of a Mac Mini add-on box that included a TV tuner or two, a digital audio output, plus Tivo software. Ditto for an iMac G5 (only with internal TV tuners). Might be a very interesting HTPC option, no? Apple has always been good at selling "upscale" hardware and software. So if Tivo is having trouble competing with lower-priced alternatives, who cares? That's never been Apple's primary market.

John C.

Hesitant

· #8 · Feb 26, 2005

record, edit, burn?

Moving from content creation to time shifting? Broadcast flag fun for all?

iwatch?

ishift?

Sport73

· #9 · Feb 26, 2005

I think (and not just because I REALLY want this to happen) that Apple would be crazy not to buy Tivo at the current (LOW) price. Take the hardware/software out of the equation. If you're Apple, you buy Tivo for the 3 Million subscribers and for the name, now synonomous with PVR functions. You also buy the 'brand', which is probably second only to Apple in turning owners into zealouts who LOVE the tech.

The combination gives Apple instant credibility in the TV space without having to slowly encroach into the living room via the iPod. It instantly exposes 3M people to Apple, most of whom don't use Macs, to a new 'master' of PVR's.

Buy the brand Apple, and get into the PVR market with a Media-Center/connecter Mac, I beg you.

rcliff

Discussion Starter · #10 · Feb 26, 2005

They could sell a bunch of new ipods. Hook up that ipod via the much unused Tivo USB port and take your shows on the road. Then again this wouldn't work to well if it's USB 1.1.

hmurchison

· #11 · Feb 26, 2005

It's not necessarily that Apple has to buy Tivo to get into the market. We know Apple has to enter this space and offer a DVR solution. They've even called DVR capability a "commodity item" . However Tivo as a company has a weakness in that if a DVR is a commodity then you have to make your money elsewhere.

So what has Tivo done? Started packing their UI with adds and selling their customers usage patterns on the backend. Not too good. It's obvious that they cannot survive with Comcast and TW offering lowcost DVR options as a monthly rental for less than half the Tivo sub cost.

If Apple were to purchase Tivo this is what I see happen.

Tivo's contract with Directv lasts until 2007. I wouldn't expect to see Apple make many changes other than beef up Mac support for Tivo2go and Home Media Option.

The fun would start up late 2006 when we'd finally see and expansion to the lineup. Here's how Apple might work it out.

Basic Unit -

$199 This unit would be for the basic consumer that wants DVR service. It would require that you get a .mac account for the Guide at $5 per month or you could opt for the .mac+ service at $8 per month which would include all the services that the current .mac includes like storage space, email, sync features etc. You would be able to listen to your iTunes store music on all devices.

Mid Unit -

$299- This unit would contain a larger HD and built in wireless capability. You would have the ability to link to your own personal audio and video files on your computer as well as photographs.

Power Unit -

$499- This would the the unit for AV aficionados. Large 300+GB hard drives. Built in DVD Burner. Firewire ports for adding more external hard drives. This unit would be based on the Sony/Toshiba/IBM Cell processor. It would have an OLED screen built in so that the tag data from the music tracks or annotations added to pictures would be displayed without the need to pipe them through to the TV.

The basic features of these units would be. A standard width casing. USB 2.0 on all units. Firewire on the top unit. The top two units would playback your files on your home network. Ethernet would be included on all models. HDMI connectors and analog connectors would be on the back. SPDIF audio as well. Wireless standard on top two models 802.11n. The top unit would allow for better encoded video due to the Cell processors power. CableCARDS standard on top two models.

Software -

The software would look similar to Tivo's UI and contain all the great features like Wishlist and Season Pass however you would have new areas of the software(depending on model) the beefier units would have pages for managing your own files, broadband internet files and cable content. Support for stores would be built right in. The units would launch with Netflix download support, Amazon.com CD/DVD store access and of coure Apple's very own iTMS. Each page would be branded. Eventually the store API would be opened up to other companies who want to pay the license fees associated.

The beauty of this setup is that Apple doesn't buy Tivo to "simply" become yet another company with a DVR. They would beef up this strategy so tha they are supporting iTunes Music Store, your own personal files and broadband content all in one device with one remote (bluetooth on top two models). Consumers won't buy into "just" a DVR but they will buy into something that manages "all" their media. Apple can either create this on their own from scratch or build off of the start that Tivo has created. Sign me up for the $500 model!

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Hesitant

· #12 · Feb 27, 2005

My view is Apple did try a tv and game 'box' option via a mpeg solution and Pippen.
http://www.macgeek.org/museum/pippin/
http://www.larwe.com/museum/apple4120.html

This might interest ppl - Apple Chief Financial Officer Peter Oppenheimer talks about

"leverage wireless networking to stream content to their home entertainment system"

I like the solution- no extra fans, expensive boxes with limits - use the Mac you have and just move the data.

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/02...imer/index.php

slashdot.org about the above
http://apple.slashdot.org/apple/05/0...?tid=187&tid=3

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hmurchison

· #13 · Feb 27, 2005

I no longer trust anything that comes out of Apple's mouth.

Quote:

Oppenheimer repeatedly stated when asked during his quarterly financial calls with analysts that Apple had no interest at the present time into getting into the low-end computer market. So it was a surprise to some to see Apple in January unveil the Mac mini, the first computer Apple has ever sold for US$499.

That's what we call a lie in the real world.

Quote:

While Oppenheimer admitted some consumers may be interested in media center PCs and that a Mac mini might be suitable, he said that "most customers" would prefer to have a more powerful computer in their office or den and leverage wireless networking to stream content to their home entertainment system.

I sense a product pitch coming

Quote:

As a practical example, Oppenheimer pointed to AirTunes -- a feature of iTunes that works in conjunction with Apple's AirPort Express wireless networking hub. The AirPort Express features an audio jack that can connect to the home entertainment system using a mini jack or a digital optical cable. Music can then be streamed from the computer playing iTunes to the stereo.

Ahhh there it is! The pitch for Airtunes.

Note Oppenheimer is a CFO not a CIO so I take what an account says regarding what people prefer with a large grain of salt.

1. People do NOT want to leverage a powerful (Read expensive) computer in their office or den to leverage expensive wireless technology.

2. Who do you think you are selling to? My mother hasn't the patience to setup a wireless network to leverage anything. She wants familar setups like a box with the standard play/plause stop and FF/RW buttons.

Streaming isn't ready for wide homenetwork deployment. 802.11g is prone to interference and doesn't perform that well. 802.11n is a ways off before it's officially ratified and even then it doesn't have Quality of Service so you are hoping that your network doesn't bog down and interrupt your streaming video.

Local storage is the way to play back the larger files until we have wireless networks with QoS and fast speed. No I don't want to leverage an expensive computer in the den to playback video files on my computer. I want my expensive computer to keep the STB in the livingroom stocked with my multimedia files...I want streaming as an option but not the "only" option.

How many times do we have to hear Apple crow about how much innovation they do. Last time I checked It was Microsoft that had just announced their second generation Media Center with expanded DVR functions and STB receivers to handle the multimedia. MS is exactly where Apple should be.....now who's innovating?? It's going to take a lot more than a Mac mini and Airport express to create a decent Mac based media center. I think Apple can do it but enough with the freakin' "reality distortion field" blather. Make it happen with Tivo or without them.

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Hesitant

· #14 · Feb 27, 2005

So are ppl thinking of a networked Lacie Silverscreen?
http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10481

Other products may only offer closed codecs and inovative drm. I do not want a media box that has to be connected to the net- waiting as it connects and then "allowing" me to watch a movie x more times, locking up for 10 mins as it tells me about new movies and products before the movie starts ie adding new ads/banners with a skip lock, a record button that you can never use, sending back detailed data on viewing habits or just getting the next worm. Waiting for version 2.x that will not crash 3/4 of the way into a classic movie.

pkscout

· #15 · Feb 27, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by hmurchison
1. People do NOT want to leverage a powerful (Read expensive) computer in their office or den to leverage expensive wireless technology.

While you may not what to do this, it's a pretty big leap from you not wanting it to all people not wanting it. This same comment goes for the rest of the post too.

You have outlined well what *you* want. Please don't assume it's what *I* want. In fact, what you described is basically none of what *I* want. A media server in a different room (or rack) with a small playback type device is actually exactly what I want. I do it in a limited way now with an Elgato EyeHome in the living room and a macMini in another room with all my media files. No, it isn't perfect, but it'll do until the technology gets better.

rcliff

Discussion Starter · #16 · Feb 27, 2005

IMO, if Apple does indeed want to get into the living room (and this is a big if) this is a no brainer. Steve had made it very clear about a year ago that they had no interest in going in that direction but this may have changed. They can acquire Tivo for what amounts to pocket change considering their current cash position and get a big jump start into the DVR market along with a significant customer base. I see both brands as having many similarities as well their customer bases.

hmurchison

· #17 · Feb 27, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by pkscout
While you may not what to do this, it's a pretty big leap from you not wanting it to all people not wanting it. This same comment goes for the rest of the post too.

You have outlined well what *you* want. Please don't assume it's what *I* want. In fact, what you described is basically none of what *I* want. A media server in a different room (or rack) with a small playback type device is actually exactly what I want. I do it in a limited way now with an Elgato EyeHome in the living room and a macMini in another room with all my media files. No, it isn't perfect, but it'll do until the technology gets better.

I sell computer for a living I have my finger on the pulse of what consumer want far more than Apple's accountant. Today's streaming media still sucks and todays wireless technology is too slow and doesn't have guaranteed bandwidth. I don't speak for anywhere close to the masses but I'm no dummy...theres maybe one system right now that has a good "out of box" experience and that's the new Sonoma system. But that's music and streaming music is easy...wait until people want to stream video....much tougher battle.

As you even admit yourself the technology is slowly getting there but it's not even close to something that you could have the non-techie consumer setup. Local storage with good links to networked files is the way to go IMO.

If Apple can crow about how innovative they are without industry rebuttal then I feel it's my duty to point out where they are totally off. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

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mechou

· #18 · Mar 1, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by hmurchison
I sell computer for a living I have my finger on the pulse of what consumer want far more than Apple's accountant. Today's streaming media still sucks and todays wireless technology is too slow and doesn't have guaranteed bandwidth. I don't speak for anywhere close to the masses but I'm no dummy...theres maybe one system right now that has a good "out of box" experience and that's the new Sonoma system. But that's music and streaming music is easy...wait until people want to stream video....much tougher battle.

As you even admit yourself the technology is slowly getting there but it's not even close to something that you could have the non-techie consumer setup. Local storage with good links to networked files is the way to go IMO.

If Apple can crow about how innovative they are without industry rebuttal then I feel it's my duty to point out where they are totally off. I could be wrong but I doubt it.

It's precisely because you sell computers for a living that you're wrong about this. Nobody in their right mind would want local storage for videos (too large & unmanageable). The more likely scenario is a central file server/video source "backend" with many (small but powerful, maybe even netboot) clients to the living room, bedroom, kitchen, etc.

802.11g may indeed be prone to interference, but have you ever even calculated what bit rate is necessary to stream a video? Let me give you a hint, it's below the sustained throughput of 802.11g. If wireless spectrum moves to 5GHz spectrum things can only improve. Anyway, plenty of houses are also have structured wiring now, so streaming video at home (wired) may not be as big a problem as you think it is.

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Joseph S

· #19 · Mar 1, 2005

Quote:

that has a good "out of box" experience and that's the new Sonoma system. But that's music and streaming music is easy...

and

iMac G5

eMac

MacMini

Powerbook G4

Powermac G5

iBook...

Every single mac ships with streaming music set to go out of the box. Just click to allow it to do so in iTunes.

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CKAmin

· #20 · Mar 2, 2005

Quote:

Originally posted by hmurchison
I sell computer for a living ...

No wonder you want people to have a computer in each of the living room, kitchen and bedrooms with built in (read: expensive) mass storage rather than a central server with cheap, distributed thin clients (heck, even built into displays) to convert and show the data stream.

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