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Sabrina launch today was disappointing. No Android TV 11 yet. Even Stadia is delayed and no confirmation of HDMI 2.1 compatibilities like the developer edition.

So I'm waiting on more info. I'll stick with my ATV4K for now. Hoping for some better framerate matching news on some device soon. Maybe one of these threads will keep me updated?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
As someone who already owns one of the new Google dongles reports, the device also just supports non-integer refresh rates (which are shown as 24/30/60Hz in the settings). So its just the same like on ATV with the addition that you also have to switch between display modes manually.

Some think that Android 11 will bring an auto match feature because of the new framerate API that will be introduced. But as I already said in this post I don't think that this will make a difference. But even if apps will implement it there will still be the problem of lacking support for integer rates.

So as on ATV the question remains if this is just ignorance, incompetence or if there are hardware limitations in the chipset they use, so they can't support it even if they wanted to.

Personally I'm convinced now that we will never see a streaming device on the market that has automatic frame rate matching that works across all apps and supports integer and non-integer rates. I'm waiting for such a device for over 10 years now. So I guess ATV is as good as it gets and we just have to deal with it.
 

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@KingNothing81 and @brotony , I finally switched to the Shield Pro and the free, now-abandoned Android Refresh Rate app to get proper, native refresh rates from streamed content (I can confirm I get 23.976 for older movies in Netflix, or 24.0 for most Netflix original content (I also get HDR (DV) and bit-streamed, DD+ Atmos in Netflix), as well as the same across other streaming platforms (Prime, for example); it even has an experimental native-resolution switching feature that I haven't looked into, as the Shield does pretty good with upscaling. Of course, as the app hasn't seen an update in almost a year, this winning combo may not be the case for long, so here's to hoping for native support in the next major update to AndroidTV.
 

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@KingNothing81 and @brotony , I finally switched to the Shield Pro and the free, now-abandoned Android Refresh Rate app to get proper, native refresh rates from streamed content (I can confirm I get 23.976 for older movies in Netflix, or 24.0 for most Netflix original content (I also get HDR (DV) and bit-streamed, DD+ Atmos in Netflix), as well as the same across other streaming platforms (Prime, for example); it even has an experimental native-resolution switching feature that I haven't looked into, as the Shield does pretty good with upscaling. Of course, as the app hasn't seen an update in almost a year, this winning combo may not be the case for long, so here's to hoping for native support in the next major update to AndroidTV.
It seems Google decided to lock the refresh rate of apps on their new dongle, just like Sony does on their TVs with Android TV. So you can switch manually in the device settings, but apps like Kodi, Plex or the Refresh Rate app won’t be able to switch modes.

So it really seems that we are going even backwards now and device manufactures try everything to force a fixed refresh rate output upon us. The industry seems to favor to come up with more and more advanced motion interpolation algorithms that hide the side effects of frame rate conversions instead of just delivering the content at its native format. And probably just because people don’t like when their TVs blank out for a short moment. It’s hopeless.
 

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@KingNothing81 and @brotony , I finally switched to the Shield Pro and the free, now-abandoned Android Refresh Rate app to get proper, native refresh rates from streamed content (I can confirm I get 23.976 for older movies in Netflix, or 24.0 for most Netflix original content (I also get HDR (DV) and bit-streamed, DD+ Atmos in Netflix), as well as the same across other streaming platforms (Prime, for example); it even has an experimental native-resolution switching feature that I haven't looked into, as the Shield does pretty good with upscaling. Of course, as the app hasn't seen an update in almost a year, this winning combo may not be the case for long, so here's to hoping for native support in the next major update to AndroidTV.
You have to manually match framerate, right? Hopefully Android 11 changes that dynamic with auto framerate matching, app developer participation and possibly even full native mode with resolution auto matching too. BTW, I'm still primarily using with my JS9500; despite the panel issue and one connect box may be the culprit in losing remote IP controls (plugging away with IR blaster control with harmony hub. I'm saving money for a better TV until when this gets less manageable. I'm fortunate the panel issue was at bottom of screen; mostly a pretty picture still. I've not been overwhelmed by TCL reviews and posts in AVS forums lately.

I'd sure like to know what Nvidia's plans for Google TV are. I'll be more patient with Sabrina & Android 11 hopes but it's not looking good atm. It's what Google didn't say that makes this look bad. But the ATV4K was released with similar and worse fixed user settings but evolved in a better direction. Not perfect but still my primary streamer.

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk
 

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@brotony , no, it is automatic with the app configured accordingly (of course, this also means the screen will temporarily "blank" when it switches after the correct framereate is detected), but the app also has a "hotkey" function, similar to the manual, "beta" framerate matching built into AndroidTV. Like I said, it doesn't sound like this "perfect" setup will last forever, but hopefully I'll get a decent amount of usage before things change.

The ATV 24.00 Hz issue is clearly apparent on my JS9500, so I now have a 2019 Shield Tube with the same Refresh Rate app configuration there, and moved the ATV to our guest-room plasma.
 

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So to be fair it seems it wasn’t Google’s decision to lock the frame rate on the new dongle, but it’s a common issue with Amlogic chipsets.
About Kodi and the locked resolution/refresh rate, here is a snipet of responses from a Kodi dev back in 2018 when people fired bug report of this same thing on different devices (Fire TV, Mi Box):
Amlogic's Android Oreo SDK doesn't support auto frame-rate switching in Kodi even if the hardware is more than capable of doing it, they didn't implement Android's Display API correctly. Kodi 18 also dropped support for Amlogic's propriety AMLCodec and moved to MediaCodec that is supposed to be supported on every Android device now.
You only solution is to use an old Kodi 17 or SPMC based on Kodi 16 if you want to use auto frame-rate switching.
Of course nobody forced Google to use Amlogic chipsets. And maybe that’s why Amazon uses Mediatek chips now in all of their recent Fire TV devices. But it’s proof that there can be hardware/firmware issues. And same may be true for ATV4K.
 

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So it seems we won’t get a reaction from our Apple guys ... not that I expected one.

I’m really out of ideas now ... I think we have done all we can. And it’s such a shame that nobody from Apple has at least the guts to tell us that a fix for this will never come.

Instead the Apple TV app will also be available on XBox soon.
Spreading the TV app across all platforms I think it’s quite obvious that Apple doesn’t care about its own streaming device anymore. Maybe there will be another ATV with upgraded hardware. But the lack of innovation regarding tvOS and there unwillingness to fix issues like this makes me think that Apple TV as a hardware platform is about to die soon.
I’ve got a Samsung 2017 high end TV and the Apple TV app isn’t available. Instead it’s available on any low end 2018 Samsung smart TV. While Disney, amazon, Netflix etc is available on any smart TV you can think of, the Apple TV app is available only on 2018+ Models. This is bothering me extremely cause I don’t want to buy a new 2000$ tv only for one single app.

And btw: a new Apple TV is extremely likely to be presented along with the new iPhones at the Apple October event. The fact that Apple skipped tvOS 14.1 beta and went directly to 14.2 beta is another big sign that there will be a new Apple TV in October that’ll be shipped already with tvOS 14.2. if you are interested in the new Apple TV, maybe you should sell your current one. Or if you aren’t interested in Apple TV anymore at all cause your smart TV does everything Apple TV does, but does it only better, you should get rid of it either :p

 

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I’ve got a Samsung 2017 high end TV and the Apple TV app isn’t available. Instead it’s available on any low end 2018 Samsung smart TV. While Disney, amazon, Netflix etc is available on any smart TV you can think of, the Apple TV app is available only on 2018+ Models. This is bothering me extremely cause I don’t want to buy a new 2000$ tv only for one single app.

And btw: a new Apple TV is extremely likely to be presented along with the new iPhones at the Apple October event. The fact that Apple skipped tvOS 14.1 beta and went directly to 14.2 beta is another big sign that there will be a new Apple TV in October that’ll be shipped already with tvOS 14.2. if you are interested in the new Apple TV, maybe you should sell your current one. Or if you aren’t interested in Apple TV anymore at all cause your smart TV does everything Apple TV does, but does it only better, you should get rid of it either :p

Yeah ... that's the big problem with Smart TVs ... they get "out of support" very quickly. And if there are new apps and features they are only released for the current and maybe last year's line up. On some older TVs some apps may even stop working. But that's a problem across all major brands. That's their way to push you to buy new stuff regularly. And that's why I always favored buying streaming devices like Shield TV or ATV and use my TV just as a display.

And my TV is even older. It must be about 10 years old now and is FHD only without being "smart" at all. But I'm still satisfied with the picture quality and don't want to buy a new one as long as the old one still works. So all I ever wanted is a streaming device that can deliver smooth and stutter free playback at native frame rates without the hassle of switching modes manually. But obviously that's too much to ask.

I'm skeptical we will see the new ATV this year. I think if there will be another event it will be focused on the new iPhones. And 14.1 was skipped on all platforms in the beta program not only for tvOS. So it may not have anything to do at all with a new ATV. I guess there are still some bugs to fix that were introduced with version 14, so they will release 14.1 directly and without going into beta. And we will see no progress or any new features with tvOS 14.2 on ATV again.

But I hope I'm wrong. I'm very curious about the new ATV and if they will fail again in supporting integer rates. So I could finally close this case and think about selling my ATV and showing my Shield TV more love again. ;)
 

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Yeah ... that's the big problem with Smart TVs ... they get "out of support" very quickly. And if there are new apps and features they are only released for the current and maybe last year's line up. On some older TVs some apps may even stop working. But that's a problem across all major brands. That's their way to push you to buy new stuff regularly. And that's why I always favored buying streaming devices like Shield TV or ATV and use my TV just as a display.

And my TV is even older. It must be about 10 years old now and is FHD only without being "smart" at all. But I'm still satisfied with the picture quality and don't want to buy a new one as long as the old one still works. So all I ever wanted is a streaming device that can deliver smooth and stutter free playback at native frame rates without the hassle of switching modes manually. But obviously that's too much to ask.

I'm skeptical we will see the new ATV this year. I think if there will be another event it will be focused on the new iPhones. And 14.1 was skipped on all platforms in the beta program not only for tvOS. So it may not have anything to do all with a new ATV. I guess there are still some bugs to fix that were introduced with version 14, so they will release 14.1 directly and without going into beta. And we will see no progress or any new features with tvOS 14.2 on ATV again.

But I hope I'm wrong. I'm very curious about the new ATV and if they will fail again in supporting integer rates. So I can finally close this case and think about selling my ATV and showing my Shield TV more love again. ;)
yes i think so too. Idk if there will be a new atv this year. Or if it will be next year.
 

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Just for the record: tvOS 14.0.2 is out now. Issue fixed? I can’t test it yet so it would be super cool if one of you guys could test it. What is the changelog of tvOS 14.0.2?
 

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Just for the record: tvOS 14.0.2 is out now. Issue fixed? I can’t test it yet so it would be super cool if one of you guys could test it. What is the changelog of tvOS 14.0.2?
Obviously there were some tvOS only issues to be fixed quickly. But of course our issue is still present.

If you are interested in the official release notes for tvOS, you can visit this site:
As you can see it’s just the usual ...
This update includes general performance and stability improvements.
... as for most tvOS updates shown there.

Edit: And if you are curious about the release notes for the developer betas, you can go here:
And if you look at the ones for the tvOS 14.2 beta, you can read:
There are no new release notes for this beta software update.
So as I already said, don’t expect any new features for the upcoming tvOS 14.2 update.
 

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At this point, I suspect Apple is aware of the problem but won't acknowledge it because it can't be fixed.
How do you come to that conclusion? I mean apple has not reacted at all. idk if that's a sign that apple is aware of this issue but can't fix it or if no reaction is just no sign at all for anything..
 

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How do you come to that conclusion? I mean apple has not reacted at all. idk if that's a sign that apple is aware of this issue but can't fix it or if no reaction is just no sign at all for anything..
Because it's been an ongoing problem and Apple isn't stupid. They can fix bugs. But to acknowledge there's a flaw in a device would also draw attention to the flaw, which they then would have to fix. Who would want to buy a knowingly flawed component? By being silent about it for so long, I read that as Apple unable to fix this particular bug so they'll keep quiet about it.

Too much of a stretch?
 

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At this point, I suspect Apple is aware of the problem but won't acknowledge it because it can't be fixed.
Is there any possibility that Apple is aware of the issue, but unwilling to fix it at the moment because the solution isn't satisfactory to them?

I say that because when the Apple TV 4K first released it didn't support matching dynamic range or framerate at all, because they didn't like the disruption caused by the display flickering to a black screen. They wanted that cohesive, uninterrupted experience.

Thankfully they changed their minds relatively quickly on that, but I'm wondering if supporting non-integer framerates is a similar thing to them. Maybe they don't want to support even more framerates then they already do, causing even more disruptions in the video signal than they currently allow. Perhaps they are waiting for a new version of the box so they can support HDMI 2.1 and Quick Media Switching, eliminating the black screen when matching framerates altogether?
 

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Is there any possibility that Apple is aware of the issue, but unwilling to fix it at the moment because the solution isn't satisfactory to them?

I say that because when the Apple TV 4K first released it didn't support matching dynamic range or framerate at all, because they didn't like the disruption caused by the display flickering to a black screen. They wanted that cohesive, uninterrupted experience.

Thankfully they changed their minds relatively quickly on that, but I'm wondering if supporting non-integer framerates is a similar thing to them. Maybe they don't want to support even more framerates then they already do, causing even more disruptions in the video signal than they currently allow. Perhaps they are waiting for a new version of the box so they can support HDMI 2.1 and Quick Media Switching, eliminating the black screen when matching framerates altogether?
There don’t have to be more disruptions only because you support more display modes. At the moment ATV switches to the non-integer mode even for integer content. If ATV would also support integer refresh rates, it would just switch to the appropriate integer mode. So you have one mode switch in both cases. But by supporting integer rates there would be no more dropped frames.

One thing I could imagine is that they think that it may confuse people if they would see integer and non-integer rates listed in the settings. Because many people don’t even know that both variants are out there. And it doesn’t help at all that device manufacturers including Apple show the refresh rates rounded up to 24/30/60Hz in their device settings, although all of them are actually the non-integer ones (23.976/29.970/59.940Hz).

So what Apple could do to avoid confusion is to make the integer rates “switch only modes”, so that they are only available for the match frame rate feature but aren’t accessible/visible to the user in the display settings. This is how Amazon handles this on their Fire devices. In the settings menu people can only choose between 50 or 60Hz but the match feature can also switch to additional display modes (including integer 24Hz). If Apple would implement it this way most people wouldn’t even notice the difference. But it would make a great difference to us.

And if there are people that are really annoyed by their screen blanking out because of the mode switches, they could just disable the match feature. It’s only optional, so it’s not something that is forced upon all users. And that’s a good thing.

So apart from being just ignorant, there is only one answer to the question why Apple doesn’t fix this that makes sense to me: And that’s because the hardware can’t do it. But we shouldn’t underestimate the ignorance of big companies. ;)
 

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One thing I could imagine is that they think that it may confuse people if they would see integer and non-integer rates listed in the settings. Because many people don’t even know that both variants are out there. And it doesn’t help at all that device manufacturers including Apple show the refresh rates rounded up to 24/30/60Hz in their device settings, although all of them are actually the non-integer ones (23.976/29.970/59.940Hz).
In my PC with Windows 10 that is connected to my TV via HDMI, it shows non-integer refresh rates labeled as integer refresh rates in the display properties refresh rates list, for example in Intel Graphics Command Center's refresh rate settings list in Windows 10, it shows 23.976 Hz labeled as 23p and 59.940 Hz labeled as 59p. Can't Apple just relabel the current 24 Hz (23.976 Hz) as 23p and the current 60 Hz (59.940 Hz) as 59p and then add the integer refresh rates and label them as 24p, 30p, and 60p. The Intel Graphics Command Center in Windows does it this way in it's refresh rate settings list. Also am I correct in saying that 4k 24.000Hz is less GPU intensive than 4k 59.940 Hz? Suppose it was a hardware limitation, CPU/GPU power in the Apple TV 4k is not a reason that Apple has not added the integer refresh rates to the Apple TV 4k and it's more of a compatibility issue with integer refresh rates?
 

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I have an Amazon Prime Video subscription for a few more days, so I was curious about how their Thursday Night Football stream looked. As far as I could tell by eye, it was frame skipping, so I think they’re encoding at 60.0fps.
 

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In my PC with Windows 10 that is connected to my TV via HDMI, it shows non-integer refresh rates labeled as integer refresh rates in the display properties refresh rates list, for example in Intel Graphics Command Center's refresh rate settings list in Windows 10, it shows 23.976 Hz labeled as 23p and 59.940 Hz labeled as 59p. Can't Apple just relabel the current 24 Hz (23.976 Hz) as 23p and the current 60 Hz (59.940 Hz) as 59p and then add the integer refresh rates and label them as 24p, 30p, and 60p. The Intel Graphics Command Center in Windows does it this way in it's refresh rate settings list. Also am I correct in saying that 4k 24.000Hz is less GPU intensive than 4k 59.940 Hz? Suppose it was a hardware limitation, CPU/GPU power in the Apple TV 4k is not a reason that Apple has not added the integer refresh rates to the Apple TV 4k and it's more of a compatibility issue with integer refresh rates?
Yes ... if you only want to show refresh rates without any decimals, this would be a solution. But writing 23.976 as 23 is very bad math and even more wrong then just rounding up a little bit. And I don't know if this would be less confusing for the average user. I still think that it would be the best soultion to not show the "real" integer rates at all in the settings, but to make them only available for the match frame rate feature. So most people wouldn't even notice the change at all.

And I really don't think that this has anything to do with the hardware not being powerful enough. The difference between the integer and non-integer rates is so small that it shouldn't matter. But the GPU could indeed be responsible for this in another way. The ATV4K is running on a A10X chip and the GPU is a PowerVR from Imagination Technologies. So looking at the GPU it's not Apple's own hardware. So what I could imagine is that that they don't have "full control" here because of that. So there is no way for them to add support for additional display modes.

And that's way I still have a little bit of hope left for the new ATV. I hope they will use a custom chip with their own GPU, so they can take care that this time it will also be able to output integer refresh rates. Let's keep our fingers crossed. ;)
 

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So again no new Apple TV on Apple’s October event. In fact Apple TV wasn’t even mentioned once during the whole presentation.

That Apple skipped 14.1 in beta was because of the new upcoming iPhones and had nothing to do with tvOS or ATV in general.

And I don’t think that we will still see anything new to be announced this year regarding Apple TV. :(
 
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