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Apple TV or Mac Mini with OSXBMC?

2665 Views 13 Replies 10 Participants Last post by J-e-L-L-o, Jun 21, 2008

Nummer 6

Discussion Starter · Jun 18, 2008

For a few months now I have been reading up on all the pro/cons of both media streaming solutions for the Mac. The problem is I am still undecided and I hope that maybe someone on these forums has experience with both platforms and could comment.

I wish to rip my DVD collection and add several HD files (WMV HD/mkv/AVCHD etc.) on to a central media server and have a great looking interface in my main media room (and perhaps later in the bedroom as well).

Since I consider DVDs on the fringe of acceptable quality (after getting into HD DVD and BluRay) I wonder if the transition to mp4 will render them unwatchable. By that I mean when I find a title through browsing the interface will I still dig out the original disc just for that tiny little bit of extra picture quality? That would defeat the purpose of all the ripping work.

Music streaming is also important but not my main concern. I have some iTunes DRM tracks in my library though. This makes me lean towards the Apple TV as it has no problem with those files. iTunes movie rentals are not important to me.

But is it really worth it to reencode my whole Video Library, which amounts to roughly 500 titles? Or should I hack the Apple TV and only reencode 1080p files? Hacks seems bothersome and will probably be wiped out by future official updates. I am not really into tinkering all the time, I want this thing to be used daily.

OSXBMC on the other hand looks great on YouTube but I cannot try it out as I am running an iMac G5. This software can play most of my files natively but there seems to be no consensus on 1080p material. But OSXBMC is more or less a private endeavour and who knows if it will mature to near perfection?

I like the form factor of the Apple TV better than the Mac Mini but since they are both small and will be diminished by all the other stuff in my rack anyway that should not be the deciding argument.

Does anyone here have THE killer argument to sway me in either direction? Or an angle which I have overlooked? Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated...

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gigaguy

· #2 · Jun 18, 2008

To me DVDs look better played from a standalone DVD player than they do played in my Mac Mini DVD drive or ripped uncompressed to the hard drive and played with VLC. Loses some detail IMO.

I have a Sony 46" HDTV (1080p) and a 2.0 Mac Mini Core 2 Duo hooked via HDMI. Wish they looked better thru the Mac, is it because of the middling video card in the Mac? I have been hoping to rip DVDs to an ext hard drive but so far less than impressed with video quality thru the Mac Mini. not even talking about HD material. hope this connects somewhat with your ? about video quality.

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ftaok

· #3 · Jun 18, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by gigaguy /forum/post/14105013

Wish they looked better thru the Mac, is it because of the middling video card in the Mac? I have been hoping to rip DVDs to an ext hard drive but so far less than impressed with video quality thru the Mac Mini. not even talking about HD material.

Are you using Leopard? I'm still on Tiger, so I am also disappointed with Apple's DVD Player's video quality.

However, I have read where the DVD Player application on Leopard is much improved over previous versions. Can't say if it rivals a dedicated progressive-scan or upconverting DVD player ... only that it's supposed to be better than on Tiger.

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nightowl

· #4 · Jun 18, 2008

I think you will be better served with a Mac Mini hooked up. You will have a lot more versatility, although as gigaguy mentions above, the PQ isn't quite where it should be with rips.

I've been using OSXBMC for several months now, and am pretty happy overall with it, it plays all, outputs DD/DTS, and has the ability to use plugins and scripts. It's not exactly plug and play, and there are sometimes weekly updates to the program, which will require you to re-install your skin and sometimes your plugins.

I'm providing all of this in the interest of disclosure, as only you can decide which is the better way to go for you in your setup.

I have no working experience with ATV, but given Apple's track record, I think you are correct that a future upgrade could wipe out some/most/all of the hacks that are out there.

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HTPC_Dude

· #5 · Jun 18, 2008

I just setup a MacMini 2.0 with Leopard and have noticed a slight degradation in PQ versus my upconverting DVD player. The Mini is connected via HDMI to a Mits HC1500 720p projector, image size is ~100". To me the slight loss in PQ (maybe 5%-10%) is worth it for the convenience of being able to play any of my DVD's without the hassle of finding the disk, loading into the player, and waiting through the annoying warnings and title screens. One click of the remote and the movie plays or resumes from where I left off. Like has already been said, it's going to be your decision if the PQ is acceptable.

As for Apple TV or Mac Mini, I chose the Mac Mini route for the versatility of having a full computer at my disposal instead of a hacked video appliance. Also to not further degrad e PQ and not spend more time converting ripped files to .mp4 files I chose the Mini.

As for OSXBMC, I've downloaded it and I must be a fricken idiot because I've not been able to get it working let alone get it to look like what you see in the video on Youtube. There are lots of settings and places to load path names but it's all a bit confusing to me. Probably a good topic for another thread. Maybe nightowl can point me in the right direction.

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Nummer 6

Discussion Starter · #6 · Jun 18, 2008

Thanks for all the replies so far. I am especially grateful for all the observations about the picture quality output of the Mac Mini. Seems like the graphics card (or lack thereof) comes into play here. It's really difficult to judge this as there isn't even an in-store display of the Apple TV to be found here. And no Mac Mini in a Home Theater environment for sure.

Now is the Apple TV the same in the video output stage? I've heard the graphics processor is specialized for h.264 video and might provide better results. Also I have not ruled out OSXBMC because a MacPro with a good video card might be the best of both worlds. Has anyone ever seen such a setup?

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Further

· #7 · Jun 19, 2008

I don't know which city you live in or near, Nummer 6, but you might try MediaMarkt. Where I live (Amsterdam), they carry Mac computers and might have an AppleTV. Assuming they do in Germany as well, you might ask them to connect it to one of their TVs or home theaters to demonstrate for you. You can start here to find the closest store to you.

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Ted Todorov

· #8 · Jun 19, 2008

It amazes me that Apple has company stores in even tertiary U.S. cities/shopping malls, but still doesn't have them in Paris, Amsterdam and the like. Considering that Europe has a greater population than the U.S. (and immense wealth) Apple should be devoting more effort there. Not to mention that both Paris and Amsterdam are HUGE tourist destinations.

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HTPC_Dude

· #9 · Jun 19, 2008

I'd say that if cost isn't as much of a factor, that is if you're considering a Mac Pro for an HTPC, then I'm sure you'll be more than happy with the results since a Mac Pro has the upgradeablity lacking in the Mac Mini.

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Anthony A.

· #10 · Jun 19, 2008

i am not a mac owner, but i have the same dilemma as to which route to go... mac mini or atv. i am leaning towards the mini as i can play my video_ts rips fine, but i was always under the assumption that the codec installed is responsible for the ultimate pq. getting a high end video card simply takes the load off the cpu, but if you have a powerful enough cpu, wouldn't it only matter which codec you install for video output? if that is the case, then the integrated video card may be just as good as a newer spec intel graphics card. can someone correct me if im wrong?

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Further

· #11 · Jun 19, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted Todorov /forum/post/14115241

It amazes me that Apple has company stores in even tertiary U.S. cities/shopping malls, but still doesn't have them in Paris, Amsterdam and the like. Considering that Europe has a greater population than the U.S. (and immense wealth) Apple should be devoting more effort there. Not to mention that both Paris and Amsterdam are HUGE tourist destinations.

Unfortunately, Apple's philosophy here is a little different. Amsterdam has two Apple-only stores (plus several other stores that also sell Apple products) that, as I understand, received some kind of support (subsidy?) from Apple. I should add that before these stores opened (about 4-5 years ago), there were a total of zero stores in Amsterdam selling Apple.

Paris has a very large electronics/media department store called fnac. Apple either has leased a department in the store or the store set up the Apple department itself. I've been there several times and they also have demonstrations with someone showing how to do music or photo or something on a Mac. Everytime I have seen this (I was there only last week), there is a pretty big crowd that stands and watches (the Mac display is mirrored on a large-screen display behind the presenter and he or she has a sound amplification system).

However, Apple support here is awful! One of the stores in Amsterdam does well selling products, but knows less about repairing Apple than my grandchildren (hint: I have no grandchildren). Also the official Apple telephone support here (based in Ireland) is almost as bad.

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mpenton

· #12 · Jun 19, 2008

I'd think that living in Amsterdam would provide some compensation for not having great computer support ;-)

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HTPC_Dude

· #13 · Jun 20, 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony A. /forum/post/14115929

i am not a mac owner, but i have the same dilemma as to which route to go... mac mini or atv. i am leaning towards the mini as i can play my video_ts rips fine, but i was always under the assumption that the codec installed is responsible for the ultimate pq. getting a high end video card simply takes the load off the cpu, but if you have a powerful enough cpu, wouldn't it only matter which codec you install for video output? if that is the case, then the integrated video card may be just as good as a newer spec intel graphics card. can someone correct me if im wrong?

One issue I've run into is that Front Row only uses Quicktime and I'm not sure if you can install other, better (if there are any) codecs, that will improve picture quality. The 2 Ghz Core2 Duo CPU seems to run 720p without issue, haven't tried a 1080p video clip yet, maybe someone else can comment.

Of course you could use the VLC player, again not sure what codecs are available, but FR doesn't use VLC so not as seemless.

My Intel Mac Mini HTPC is barely a week old and I'm liking it more and more, PQ is very good right out of the box. Possibly if I were running a Windows box with FFDshow I'd see an improvement but for now I love the ease of use the Mac gives you.

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J-e-L-L-o

· #14 · Jun 21, 2008

well i dont have a mini but use a macbook pro for htpc and video looks great to me.

i dont have an upscaling dvd player to compare to, but honestly, my ripped dvds look better played through leopard's dvd player than my ps3. (to me) it upscales great to my 42" 120hz lcd.

i use perian and when i open frontrow...all my movies can be played. .mkv, .ts folders (and vobs) from dvds as well as .avi.

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