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You also made another generalized statement, "You can't disable CEC via a user interface". Well if you can't disable it you're saying the only way to not have problems is to buy these "adapters" to disable the physical bus. Of course you can disable CEC via a user interface.
With respect to CEC, there is a difference between a device taking action as a result of a
CEC request (CEC says power on so device powers on) and a device simply responding/acknowledging the request (CEC says power on so device responds with new power state as a result of the command). Most CEC implementations are all or nothing and both of those scenarios either always happen together, or neither happen.

With respect to the AppleTV, the AppleTV is different. Disabling CEC control in the AppleTV UI disables CEC control but does not disable responses to CEC queries. While this is technically valid per the CEC spec, it confuses a large number of other devices in the chain that expect all-or-nothing when it comes to CEC.
 

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I understand this! You're explaining it to the wrong person in the conversation :)

Thanks!
With respect to CEC, there is a difference between a device taking action as a result of a
CEC request (CEC says power on so device powers on) and a device simply responding/acknowledging the request (CEC says power on so device responds with new power state as a result of the command). Most CEC implementations are all or nothing and both of those scenarios either always happen together, or neither happen.

With respect to the AppleTV, the AppleTV is different. Disabling CEC control in the AppleTV UI disables CEC control but does not disable responses to CEC queries. While this is technically valid per the CEC spec, it confuses a large number of other devices in the chain that expect all-or-nothing when it comes to CEC.
 

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With respect to the AppleTV, the AppleTV is different. Disabling CEC control in the AppleTV UI disables CEC control but does not disable responses to CEC queries. While this is technically valid per the CEC spec, it confuses a large number of other devices in the chain that expect all-or-nothing when it comes to CEC.
My Denon AVR works exactly the same way. With both CEC control response and ARC disabled it responds to enumeration requests. Without monitoring the CEC bus there's no way for the consumer to know what's happening.
 

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Quick question guys... Is there a way to allow apps such as Netflix to output programs in their native resolution? In order for Netflix to output 4K programs, I have to set my ATV to 4K SDR.

The problem with this is that regular HD (1080p) programs will be upscaled to 4K before being sent to my TV.

If I set my ATV to 1080P SDR, then Netflix will not output native 4K programs any longer.

I just want to be able to send the feed to the TV in it's native resolution and let my TV do the upscaling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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My Denon AVR works exactly the same way. With both CEC control response and ARC disabled it responds to enumeration requests. Without monitoring the CEC bus there's no way for the consumer to know what's happening.

Absolutely correct. But they should not need to. The average and even advanced consumer should not need to monitor CEC traffic, ever. If Apple would only acknowledge that they are doing something that confuses that " large number of devices" and modify the behavior so that the confusion is not "caused" . Life would be much more simple for many of their customers. Some will argue that the confusion is not caused by the ATV4k, but inadequacies in all of these other devices. It is really not important either way, except changing one device to play nice is likely easier than trying to retrofit all of those confused systems to accept non-standard (not by spec, but by usage) behavior by one device. I mean that they have to know that the design of their device can and does cause problems for many people. Yes?


Doesn't that make sense? At least to folks that do not believe that Apple can do no wrong?


Really... what am I missing here?
 

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Quick question guys... Is there a way to allow apps such as Netflix to output programs in their native resolution? In order for Netflix to output 4K programs, I have to set my ATV to 4K SDR.

The problem with this is that regular HD (1080p) programs will be upscaled to 4K before being sent to my TV.

If I set my ATV to 1080P SDR, then Netflix will not output native 4K programs any longer.

I just want to be able to send the feed to the TV in it's native resolution and let my TV do the upscaling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


No there isn’t a way adaptive streaming is most likely the roadblock.
 

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There's a camp that just hates CEC. You don't find it all over these forums thank goodness.

I had a similar issue with my ROKU and they addressed it with 60 days. I can't get Apple to even respond. It's unfortunate. I'm guessing they may have a common or related chipset and/or SDK because everything about the ATV behavior down to the timing of things is identical but that's strictly a guess. I don't use my ATV much and even less because of this behavior. I mostly plug it these days for side by side bug checks for my PLEX and YTTV apps.

Beyond that CEC has been a great tool for the past 5 or 6 years. Up in the closet is a box of infrared repeaters/hubs/garbage that I no longer have to have in my cabinets :) I've got 3 setups in the house with AVRs and my wife can finally operate everything :) :)


Absolutely correct. But they should not need to. The average and even advanced consumer should not need to monitor CEC traffic, ever. If Apple would only acknowledge that they are doing something that confuses that " large number of devices" and modify the behavior so that the confusion is not "caused" . Life would be much more simple for many of their customers. Some will argue that the confusion is not caused by the ATV4k, but inadequacies in all of these other devices. It is really not important either way, except changing one device to play nice is likely easier than trying to retrofit all of those confused systems to accept non-standard (not by spec, but by usage) behavior by one device. I mean that they have to know that the design of their device can and does cause problems for many people. Yes?


Doesn't that make sense? At least to folks that do not believe that Apple can do no wrong?


Really... what am I missing here?
 

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I've had my new ATV 4k for about a week, and it mostly works fine. However, when I choose to play an Amazon Prime title from the AppleTV app, I end up with a blank grey screen. If I first enter the Amazon app, the title plays as expected. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
Same thing here. Wonder what's going on?:frown:
 
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Absolutely correct. But they should not need to. The average and even advanced consumer should not need to monitor CEC traffic, ever. If Apple would only acknowledge that they are doing something that confuses that " large number of devices" and modify the behavior so that the confusion is not "caused" . Life would be much more simple for many of their customers. Some will argue that the confusion is not caused by the ATV4k, but inadequacies in all of these other devices. It is really not important either way, except changing one device to play nice is likely easier than trying to retrofit all of those confused systems to accept non-standard (not by spec, but by usage) behavior by one device. I mean that they have to know that the design of their device can and does cause problems for many people. Yes?


Doesn't that make sense? At least to folks that do not believe that Apple can do no wrong?


Really... what am I missing here?
I've been an Apple user since 1984. Do I think they can do no wrong, absolutely not. But CEC is a mess in general. Is it Apple's problem or other mfrs? Probably both due to lack of standardization and the fact that the mfrs are free to implement the protocols anyway they choose. CEC is a great idea but poorly implemented in a lot of cases. If it works, fine. If not then the only other viable alternative at this point in time is a Harmony or Harmony-like remote. I'd love to use CEC without having to purchase a Harmony but it's never worked correctly across systems that I've had so I gave up on it years ago and went the Harmony way. CEC Extensions, part of HDMI 2.1, is supposed to address the issues across the board, but until HDMI 2.1 is widely adopted and integrated there's alway going to be a system setup that just won't work reliably.
 

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Quick question guys... Is there a way to allow apps such as Netflix to output programs in their native resolution? In order for Netflix to output 4K programs, I have to set my ATV to 4K SDR.

The problem with this is that regular HD (1080p) programs will be upscaled to 4K before being sent to my TV.

If I set my ATV to 1080P SDR, then Netflix will not output native 4K programs any longer.

I just want to be able to send the feed to the TV in it's native resolution and let my TV do the upscaling.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Netflix constantly changes resolution if bandwidth fluctuates and 4k material tends to ramp up through a range of resolutions until it reaches 2160p. Your tv and Apple TV would be constantly handshaking leading to picture drop outs of a few seconds every time. You’d probably miss the first 30 - 60 seconds of each show. Hdmi 2.1 should resolve this issue but would require new hardware.

Regarding the Apple TV upscaling, it really is not a negative. It’s excellent at it and is easily a match for most TVs. I know conventional wisdom is to leave everything to the tv but in this case it’s really not an issue.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
 

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A lot has changed and improved. If it's really been years since you've tried CEC you should revisit it (assuming your equipment has changed as well :) ). I love not having any of the universal remote mess and IR hubs/repeaters/... It's all in a box in my junk closet :)

No scientific study but 2013/2014 equipment years seems to have been a "threshold for change" with respect to CEC for me.
I gave up on it years ago
 

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What is the point of buying a 64gb AppleTV vs a 32gb model?


No point for most users. Content is not stored locally and most streaming apps take up very little memory. If you intend to shove loads and loads of games on your device then you might see some benefit. I’ve barely dented my 32gb storage and I don’t regret that I downsized from my 64gb 4th gen.


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Something strange happening with Amazon Prime Video Content on the APTV4K?

Most of the HDR Prime content has vanished. There are only 5 HDR programs available on Prime Video.

I am based in the UK.
 

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A lot has changed and improved. If it's really been years since you've tried CEC you should revisit it (assuming your equipment has changed as well :) ). I love not having any of the universal remote mess and IR hubs/repeaters/... It's all in a box in my junk closet :)

No scientific study but 2013/2014 equipment years seems to have been a "threshold for change" with respect to CEC for me.
I've thought about it but I have a single remote that does everything I want/need it to do. No repeaters or hubs either. Just the remote. I know what you mean about a junk box though. I've got remotes in their that I don't even have devices for. Been meaning to clean it out, maybe tomorrow .....;)
 

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A lot has changed and improved. If it's really been years since you've tried CEC you should revisit it (assuming your equipment has changed as well :) ). I love not having any of the universal remote mess and IR hubs/repeaters/... It's all in a box in my junk closet :)

No scientific study but 2013/2014 equipment years seems to have been a "threshold for change" with respect to CEC for me.
I've thought about it but I have a single remote that does everything I want/need it to do. No repeaters or hubs either. Just the remote. I know what you mean about a junk box though. I've got remotes in their that I don't even have devices for. Been meaning to clean it out, maybe tomorrow .....;)

I've found that I haven't needed to go back to a universal remote since my 2014 TV as well, which came with a candybar-style IR remote that handily controls everything connected to it, even the ATV4K (of course, I have all device-specific remotes handy, but rarely find a need to get them out).
 

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I have every single one on my 32GB models.



Also I could try to load up mine with games but it will only keep necessary slices on it and dynamically delete and download parts necessary due to app thinning. This applies to both models.


That’s the whole point. It will delete things if there’s not enough space. I don’t have a whole lot of games but if you watch a couple of 4K movies, look at your iCloud Photo Library, play some Apple Music, etc. it’s going to delete some screensavers and then re-download them again later. The more space you have then the fewer things need to be deleted.
 
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