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I'm not considering Anthem, but thanks. (reasons: first one has to do with user support/repairs; distant second is aesthetics) I'm sure Paradigm would highly suggest the pairing, though. lol.

Markus767- as I understand it, ARC is ONLY used for room correcting/optimizing the bass response of the 9H. This is why I was wondering if that, and the DL in the Arcam's AS IS would work (ie running speakers "small")....granted, the proper solution would be a fix where warranted. But having said that, perhaps in using the 9H and how they feature ARC for the bass and not the entire freq spectrum, would not be too unreasonable. That, or just shut off DL in the Arcam and let ARC do what it needs to do in the bass frequencies. My inquiry is an honest one based on the fact that I have had ZERO experience with any of these modern RC tools.
Don't overcomplicate things and don't spend money on devices with features you don't need. Get an AVR with decent room correction. Those 9Hs are made for 2 channel only configurations.
 

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Don't overcomplicate things and don't spend money on devices with features you don't need. Get an AVR with decent room correction. Those 9Hs are made for 2 channel only configurations.
Markus,

Thanks. Trust me, the last thing I desire is unneeded doo-dads, baubles, or complications; and I know what I'm looking for ultimately. Second- I'm not sure an AVR is the direction I desire to go with the particular room application (the AVR-850 is the only one I've considered due to a few things including its class G amplification.) My other options are only looking at seperates...with or without active speakers.

On Third point, not true sir. Paradigm suggests the 9H for multi-channel as well, in their literature. Thanks!
 

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Markus,

Thanks. Trust me, the last thing I desire is unneeded doo-dads, baubles, or complications; and I know what I'm looking for ultimately. Second- I'm not sure an AVR is the direction I desire to go with the particular room application (the AVR-850 is the only one I've considered due to a few things including its class G amplification.) My other options are only looking at seperates...with or without active speakers.
Well, all I can say is that the AVR-85 isn't what you're looking for.

On Third point, not true sir. Paradigm suggests the 9H for multi-channel as well, in their literature. Thanks!
Of course they suggest you to buy more :) But why would I want those speakers for a multichannel setup? Better get a couple of decent subs and satellites.
 

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Well, all I can say is that the AVR-85 isn't what you're looking for.



Of course they suggest you to buy more :) But why would I want those speakers for a multichannel setup? Better get a couple of decent subs and satellites.
Ah but you stated with an intrinsic degree of authority that "the 9H is ONLY DESIGNED for 2ch"...which is patently false, Markus. This is nothing but your spin/opinion. Not everybody wants 'satellites and separate subs'.. depending on their goals and rooms. So then those with towers in HT are doing it wrong? I respectfully beg to differ. You cannot simply strongarm others comply to your opinions & tastes. Meanwhile, I have a few other options I'm considering as well. Which I won't bother bringing here so as to not derail the thread any longer. I think I've 'learned' all I needed. Cheers!
 

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Ah but you stated with an intrinsic degree of authority that "the 9H is ONLY DESIGNED for 2ch"...which is patently false, Markus. This is nothing but your spin/opinion. Not everybody wants 'satellites and separate subs'.. depending on their goals and rooms. So then those with towers in HT are doing it wrong? I respectfully beg to differ. You cannot simply strongarm others comply to your opinions & tastes. Meanwhile, I have a few other options I'm considering as well. Which I won't bother bringing here so as to not derail the thread any longer. I think I've 'learned' all I needed. Cheers!
Well, if your goal is faithful sound reproduction you do want satellites and separates. There's a ton of data out there to support it. These slides are a good start: http://www.harman.com/sites/default/files/white-paper/12/11/2015 - 06:25/files/LoudspeakersandRoomsPt3.pdf

A lot more detail in Toole, "Sound Reproduction".
 

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Well, if your goal is faithful sound reproduction you do want satellites and separates. There's a ton of data out there to support it. These slides are a good start: http://www.harman.com/sites/default/files/white-paper/12/11/2015 - 06:25/files/LoudspeakersandRoomsPt3.pdf

A lot more detail in Toole, "Sound Reproduction".
Thanks, Markus. I do have the Toole book, and I'll bookmark your link- thanks BTW. Meanwhile, while I take exception to the statement "if your goal is faithful sound reproduction you do want satellites and separates" your initial statement earlier was "better get a couple of subwoofers and satellites"...having said that, not only do people that I value have other opinions of that, systems I've heard configured otherwise repudiates that; everybody is entitled to their opinion...but let's not cloud opinions with facts.

BTW, I have 30+ years experience in recording and live performance (music industry), and I know faithful sound reproduction when I hear it. Have a great evening, Markus!
 

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Thanks, Markus. I do have the Toole book, and I'll bookmark your link- thanks BTW. Meanwhile, while I take exception to the statement "if your goal is faithful sound reproduction you do want satellites and separates" your initial statement earlier was "better get a couple of subwoofers and satellites"...having said that, not only do people that I value have other opinions of that, systems I've heard configured otherwise repudiates that; everybody is entitled to their opinion...but let's not cloud opinions with facts.

BTW, I have 30+ years experience in recording and live performance (music industry), and I know faithful sound reproduction when I hear it. Have a great evening, Markus!
Exactly :) By the way, it's morning where I live :)
 

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I wonder if Arcam is going to stick to their guns and not update the receivers. I assume it's just a firmware update since Dirac Live is implemented there.

Based on my previous experiences with them, they tend to be more on the side of "take it or leave it" when it comes to their products.
 

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When you say "bass management", what exactly are you referring to? I think we're taking about different things.

Until they fix signal flow spending any money on Arcam AVRs would be foolish.


Did Emotiva also implement Dirac Live in the same way as Arcam?


I suppose the best way to enjoy Dirac is using any AVR or processor with pre-outs and an 88A? Unless you can afford the Datasat?
 

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Did Emotiva also implement Dirac Live in the same way as Arcam?


I suppose the best way to enjoy Dirac is using any AVR or processor with pre-outs and an 88A? Unless you can afford the Datasat?
It is my understanding that Emotiva got it wrong as well, but I havent owned one or followed that thread. Maybe someone that knows more will chime in. They were never really an option for me since they did not implement immersive audio (atmos or dtsx).
 

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It is interesting that those who have reviewed/demoed/installed either the Emotiva unit or AVR850 Arcam units and calibrated with DL (that are well-familiar with DL) haven't had a problem ....up until now. Not throwing stones here at all, just observing. Makes me wonder WHY this issue has only come up now? (again not questioning you guys, just thinking out loud)..if there is an error here, perhaps the source of it in the firmware is DIRAC itself, and not Emotiva or Arcam. Hmmm...
 

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It is interesting that those who have reviewed/demoed/installed either the Emotiva unit or AVR850 Arcam units and calibrated with DL (that are well-familiar with DL) haven't had a problem ....up until now. Not throwing stones here at all, just observing. Makes me wonder WHY this phenomena has only come up now? (again not questioning you guys, just thinking out loud)

I think that we are fortunate that someone like Markus is on the thread to alert users to the fact.


Also, if your mains have minimal corrections below the crossover, it probably wont be all that noticeable..........but it will still be wrong!


In my instance, when I finally got around to putting on a clip I'm familiar with, it was immediately noticeable, as the Dirac L/R filter reduced about 7db between 35hz and 65hz. I ran REW, and the same 7db reduction was there with L set to small, and gone with L set to large (despite no sub).


The trusty old Denon with Audyssey XT manages a flatter response with BM on, and my wife is wondering where our 5 grand actually went!
 

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It is my understanding that Emotiva got it wrong as well, but I havent owned one or followed that thread. Maybe someone that knows more will chime in. They were never really an option for me since they did not implement immersive audio (atmos or dtsx).

Thanks for that. Yes, there is something I don't like about Emotiva to be honest.


Anyway, the best option will be dictated by your own market.
The Yamaha CX-5100 is very cheap here in Australia. If I had a rack or cupboard I could hide this stuff in it would be a great option with a pair 88As.
 

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I think that we are fortunate that someone like Markus is on the thread to alert users to the fact.


Also, if your mains have minimal corrections below the crossover, it probably wont be all that noticeable..........but it will still be wrong!


In my instance, when I finally got around to putting on a clip I'm familiar with, it was immediately noticeable, as the Dirac L/R filter reduced about 7db between 35hz and 65hz. I ran REW, and the same 7db reduction was there with L set to small, and gone with L set to large (despite no sub).


The trusty old Denon with Audyssey XT manages a flatter response with BM on, and my wife is wondering where our 5 grand actually went!
Oh I agree about Markus (and it sounds like Dirac doesn't want to say it's 'fact')...what I wasn't saying too clearly is, maybe the problem isn't so much Emotiva or Arcam, but that MAYBE Dirac supplied flawed firmware to these companies...and why it has taken so long for somebody to catch this? DL just didn't come out yesterday. lolololol. Thanks, Michaelharvey.
 

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It is interesting that those who have reviewed/demoed/installed either the Emotiva unit or AVR850 Arcam units and calibrated with DL (that are well-familiar with DL) haven't had a problem ....up until now.
The problem is "sounds good to me". People have no reference they could compare to. The only reference is their expectations.

Not throwing stones here at all, just observing. Makes me wonder WHY this issue has only come up now? (again not questioning you guys, just thinking out loud)..if there is an error here, perhaps the source of it in the firmware is DIRAC itself, and not Emotiva or Arcam. Hmmm...
I doubt that Dirac Live itself is the problem because the measurements show very obviously that the issues is caused by flawed signal flow. By the way, miniDSP (DDRC-88A/BM) and Datasat have implemented Dirac Live correctly.
 

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The problem is "sounds good to me". People have no reference they could compare to. The only reference is their expectations.
Right. Got it.



I doubt that Dirac Live itself is the problem because the measurements show very obviously that the issues is caused by flawed signal flow. By the way, miniDSP (DDRC-88A/BM) and Datasat have implemented Dirac Live correctly.
So though the software/firmware is licensed from Dirac, the end manufacturer still has leeway to implement it correctly, or incorrectly...which would fall back on either Emotiva or ARCAM...I would think DIRAC would be somewhat if not highly interested to maybe not 'police the situation' but at the same time, make sure end mfg implements it correctly..as incorrectly makes DIRAC look bad.
 

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So though the software/firmware is licensed from Dirac, the end manufacturer still has leeway to implement it correctly, or incorrectly...which would fall back on either Emotiva or ARCAM...I would think DIRAC would be somewhat if not highly interested to maybe not 'police the situation' but at the same time, make sure end mfg implements it correctly..as incorrectly makes DIRAC look bad.
The measurements presented so far don't indicate a problem with DL itself. The heavy lifting is done by the Dirac Live calibration tool which runs on Mac/PC and is 100% under control of Dirac Research.
 
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