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Hmm.. So let me summarize your post.
You are choosing not to go with mass market brands that have a stable product and great price, But trade off with sound quality and brand cachet

You are choosing not to go with premium boutique brands with great sound quality and product development but you pay premium prices for that “no compromise” solution

I’m fact, you are choosing to go with value oriented semi boutique brands that have good solid quality at reasonable prices, but do not have the resources and economies of scale - so it takes longer to finish complex products.

Arcam are not “saying” the product is ready, and they are visibly and actively working on getting it ready. So it’s really your choice. You can choose to wait it out for a good product at reasonable cost, or vote with your wallet and make one of the other trade offs with another brand.

I don’t see you going into the Sony thread railing about the sound quality to matching Macintosh, and similarly, asking Macintosh to sell their products at Arcam prices.. so why is this different?

No if Arcam has washed their hands off this and said you are stuck with what you bought, the rant makes sense. But that’s not the case. What are you really asking for?

Rant over
Hey I am not an audio snob by any means. My greater point is this. How is it you can go out and purchase a lesser unit like the inexpensive sony or what have you and you dont have pops clicks and audible hum in the system. how is it they are able to slap a cheap unit together for mass market and make it sound good enough that people aren't returning them in droves. They sell a ton of inexpensive units and if that is what your budget can afford great I dont have a single issue about entry level versus upper end stuff. Why as a consumer do we forgive the manufacture for selling us a product that doesn't work out of the box. Are all of the specs they lay out in the literature lies? I don't think they play the consumer straight at all. Everyone knows they play fast and loose with their power outputs on the amp. People love to tout huge numbers that their amp can produce so manufactures give us these big numbers. Are those numbers really accurate on an inexpensive unit I highly doubt they are. So now ARCAM has said in there literature that the AVR30 has Dirac live, but from what I read in this entire board was that the unit shipped and that wasn't and still isn't an actuality ? Never mind all of the other issues going on I am like that is crazy.
My choices at Magnolia are not that diverse so I am limited on where I go with this in a couple of days. I would love it I mean love it if the ARCAM worked seriously .I am coming at this product with open and eager eyes after my recent disaster with the Rotel RAP1580. If I had what about 15 grand I would go into say the Macintosh but I live with limitations on how much I can spend on this stuff. I do know that if I go home with the ARCAM I will be hedging that with the insurance they sell. Had I done that with the Rotel I would of been done with that unit a couple years ago now.
One last point I wanna rant on about is when you have to box up a unit and send it off multiple times ask yourself is this ok... It truly sucks!!
 

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Hmm.. So let me summarize your post.
You are choosing not to go with mass market brands that have a stable product and great price, But trade off with sound quality and brand cachet

You are choosing not to go with premium boutique brands with great sound quality and product development but you pay premium prices for that “no compromise” solution

I’m fact, you are choosing to go with value oriented semi boutique brands that have good solid quality at reasonable prices, but do not have the resources and economies of scale - so it takes longer to finish complex products.

Arcam are not “saying” the product is ready, and they are visibly and actively working on getting it ready. So it’s really your choice. You can choose to wait it out for a good product at reasonable cost, or vote with your wallet and make one of the other trade offs with another brand.

I don’t see you going into the Sony thread railing about the sound quality to matching Macintosh, and similarly, asking Macintosh to sell their products at Arcam prices.. so why is this different?

No if Arcam has washed their hands off this and said you are stuck with what you bought, the rant makes sense. But that’s not the case. What are you really asking for?

Rant over
I want to go back and touch on a point you made about Arcam not saying the product is ready. May I ask you where they publish that point. I see many people here have noted this point but where is this information coming from. I also am not an ARCAM hater by any means I truly was excited about going into this AVR30. I was doing my due diligence in reading the forum boards to see how people were doing owning these units. I was shocked and bummed out that there are so many issues.
One other point you made was about their ability to scale a product. Well I hear what you're saying but I wonder how much input either financially or otherwise Samsung has with this product line.
I also wanna touch on your point about going into other threads and yapping about sound quality and such. Me reading these boards is not to sit back on a high horse and look down on other products. Me reading these boards was to educate myself on possible issues I might see when buying a product. When I bring up the mass market product it is to make the point that they seem to get enough points right to sell a ton of them. This is audio stuff has been a hobby I don't own lab equipment for testing. I just enjoy a nice piece of equipment .
I also want to say I am not arguing with you I am curious do you currently own any of the new products from ARCAM? Has your experience living with it on a daily basis been a good one? I am coming out of the ROTEL brand I am still using an old RSX1065. I think it still sounds nice. It doesn't have all the DSP of modern units and there aren't any HDMI ports. So for a modern system I had upgraded to the RAP1580. That unit has many many issues. I am coming at this from the perspective of being beat down by that unit, trust me having issues all the time will beat you down. I respect your view point on things I truly do I am just curious if you are or have been living with a unit that has constant issues. It sucks ya get to a point where you are ok with watching tv through the tv speakers. I mean that with all seriousness.. I will end my rant on that.
 

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For those who haven't seen it yet, Shane has a new update with the latest firmware:




Basically most of the issues he was having are now fixed.
 

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For those who haven't seen it yet, Shane has a new update with the latest firmware:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg_I7xY2VEI


Basically most of the issues he was having are now fixed.
I watched the 1st video. I cringed when he said he bought it so he can tell the truth. Would he have lied if he got a sample directly from the vendor?: He also said it sounded terrible. Our ears profusely disagree. I've been a dealer for 22 years. It's common for a person to quote retail when they have a hiccup. Who paid $4500? Especially on a product that the manufacturer shipped before Dirac and other key features were released. I digress...

Funny enough, he knew Arcam had a new firmware available before he posted the video but instead he did the video review with v89 and not v95 firmware.
I wondered why he did that as well. It's not as if he didn't speak with tech support multiple times or read the forums which discussed the new firmware drop. Forgive me for being suspicious as to why he (purposely?) has two reviews.

Back to the Arcam. As I said before, I would be shocked if it was engineering's decision to release it. The final decision maker should have put on in their personal system versus assuming engineering could time the release of a working firmware. Remember, they shipped them to Magnolia before the final firmware was done. They worked off of best-case scenarios and it bit them hard. Software has a way of doing this. The bottom line is they jumped the gun. I am not going to pile on because I literally don't want to demotivate a supplier from producing a product that is pushing the market forward. From conversations with them, they get it. I bet they are going to remember the sting. So I am patiently waiting and we are getting closer and closer. In fact, I shipped a few to people that I refused to sell them to just a week ago.

Everyone is anxious to get a few more patches in combo with Dirac. After that, we will want Auro3D. Because I am a dealer and because I believe in the product, I have a lot of inventory, Currently, I'm officially 18x more anxious than everyone who owns or wants one. It won't be long before they get even closer. I suspect they will be where Monoprice is within a week.

I give Monoprice props for not releasing when they promised it was going to ship months earlier.
 

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I watched the 1st video. I cringed when he said he bought it so he can tell the truth. Would he have lied if he got a sample directly from the vendor?: He also said it sounded terrible. Our ears profusely disagree. I've been a dealer for 22 years. It's common for a person to quote retail when they have a hiccup. Who paid $4500? Especially on a product that the manufacturer shipped before Dirac and other key features were released. I digress...



I wondered why he did that as well. It's not as if he didn't speak with tech support multiple times or read the forums which discussed the new firmware drop. Forgive me for being suspicious as to why he (purposely?) has two reviews.

Back to the Arcam. As I said before, I would be shocked if it was engineering's decision to release it. The final decision maker should have put on in their personal system versus assuming engineering could time the release of a working firmware. Remember, they shipped them to Magnolia before the final firmware was done. They worked off of best-case scenarios and it bit them hard. Software has a way of doing this. The bottom line is they jumped the gun. I am not going to pile on because I literally don't want to demotivate a supplier from producing a product that is pushing the market forward. From conversations with them, they get it. I bet they are going to remember the sting. So I am patiently waiting and we are getting closer and closer. In fact, I shipped a few to people that I refused to sell them to just a week ago.

Everyone is anxious to get a few more patches in combo with Dirac. After that, we will want Auro3D. Because I am a dealer and because I believe in the product, I have a lot of inventory, Currently, I'm officially 18x more anxious than everyone who owns or wants one. It won't be long before they get even closer. I suspect they will be where Monoprice is within a week.

I give Monoprice props for not releasing when they promised it was going to ship months earlier.
Hello I see you are a retailer. Can I ask you a couple of questions. I have been looking at the AVR30 I was pretty solid on going that way until I stayed up last night reading this thread. I must say I am very concerned about all the issues people are having.I am coming out of a situation where I had nothing but problems. I want to ask you if you were spending your own money would you plunk it down on an AVR30, are you confident enough they will get it together? Secondly I wonder where the news about the delays on software and delaying sales were. The team at the Magnolia where I go didn't mention any of the things I have seen on here. Was there some sort of memo released to sellers or to the public? I am nervous about getting into something that might be just as bad as what I am leaving.
 

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Hello I see you are a retailer. Can I ask you a couple of questions. I have been looking at the AVR30 I was pretty solid on going that way until I stayed up last night reading this thread. I must say I am very concerned about all the issues people are having.I am coming out of a situation where I had nothing but problems. I want to ask you if you were spending your own money would you plunk it down on an AVR30, are you confident enough they will get it together? Secondly I wonder where the news about the delays on software and delaying sales were. The team at the Magnolia where I go didn't mention any of the things I have seen on here. Was there some sort of memo released to sellers or to the public? I am nervous about getting into something that might be just as bad as what I am leaving.
I was spending my own money. :) I wrote out a very large check for my inventory. I knew the status before it shipped and I could have canceled. My customer's problems become my problem so I elected to postpone selling them. But I know the director of engineering and his team is talented. They outsourced the video board to another talented design group. I have some very technical customers that are beta testers. So it's easier for me to access the probabilities.

I've been through several processor releases before to various degrees. Most engineering teams find their legs after a couple of months after their release. It's the way it goes. Some are better releases, some worse.

Magnolia management knew that it was going to be released pre-Dirac, pre-Auro-3D, etc. No offense to the Magnolia salesperson. But when smaller dealers are writing out their own checks, they dig deeper into the inner workings.
 

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I was spending my own money. :) I wrote out a very large check for my inventory. I knew the status before it shipped and I could have canceled. My customer's problems become my problem so I elected to postpone selling them. But I know the director of engineering and his team is talented. They outsourced the video board to another talented design group. I have some very technical customers that are beta testers. So it's easier for me to access the probabilities.

I've been through several processor releases before to various degrees. Most engineering teams find their legs after a couple of months after their release. It's the way it goes. Some are better releases, some worse.

Magnolia management knew that it was going to be released pre-Dirac, pre-Auro-3D, etc. No offense to the Magnolia salesperson. But when smaller dealers are writing out their own checks, they dig deeper into the inner workings.
Thank you for that explanation that does settle my mind. I very much appreciate your knowledge on the subject. I will shoot you a direct message. I guess I never asked or thought to ask if a piece was being held and had issues. I have spent my afternoon poking around to see what combinations I can piece together from the selections available in the Magnolia universe. In a perfect world I would be looking at other shops but my money is tied to them right now in this instance. I will say the group I have felt with over the years has been very nice and tried to help me as best they could. I am not on the board to bash anyone or pick on anyone for their perspective on audiophile topics. I am spending this time to educate myself on particular units to help me iron out which one I should buy next. thank you for hitting me back I appreciate it.
 

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Unfortunately, “Release early and Fix later” has gone from a Silicon Valley strategy to a mainstream mantra. There are lots of merits (customer feedback on features, prioritizing features important to customers, market share, mind share etc) to the strategy when done right. Unfortunately this is example releasing too early and the negative effect it can have.

As SteveH mentioned, the silver lining is that hopefully management will sit up and take notice, and that usually means more attention to rectifying the situation and a better product in the end.

Makes sense to watch this thread for the state of readiness, and jump in when you feel comfortable, or move on to something else if you don’t see improvements at a steady clip - so far 3 significant updates every 2 weeks is quite encouraging
 

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@robphx

I don't mean to be snarky, but if you want more people to read your posts (I didn't), put in some paragraph breaks.

I can't hold my breath that long.


Wow I have spent the last couple of hours going through this whole thread. I read the excitement and enthusiasm to get ones hands on noe of the new ARCAM products. I am coming out of a similar relationship with the Rotel RAP1580. Understanding these are similar products only. The issues of firmware and bugs and amps quitting HDMI issues they are the same in the end. As the consumer have we gone and surrendered and accepted products that dont work as billed. Its like buying a new car and the spec sheet is incredible the paint stunning, but when you hit the gas to get on the freeway it sputters and blows smoke so that your only going 40mph. I mean yeah it works sorta but is that really what we wanna be buying. Tha AVR30 is 6 grand last I checked that is a lot of money. I made a comment on another thread and someone commented that the gentleman didn't update to a newer firmware. My mind exploded then. So ARCAM can just ship out products for a premium price tag that dont work as designed??? How can this be how is it we are compromised ourselves to accept this. I was really looking forward to getting the AVR30. I must admit I am in a bind as I cannot spend another 5 grand or so to get myself in Macintosh and a Sony or Pioneer or Marantz really does anything for me to be honest. I will give those brands one compliment they dont have the level of bugs and poor software design as my experience with Rotel and now it seems ARCAM. So I will be buying the over priced warranty I think it will cost me an additional 500 bucks. This will at least buy me a an out if after three attempts at repair I either get a refund or slide into something else. I am not thrilled I have to spend money like that. It is a shame I have to hedge my bet like this. I am in a weird situation where I am getting out from one unit that had major issues all over to the AVR30. If I was not pinned down I would go to another shop and see what I could put together for my budget but I am stuck all due to a unit that never worked. I got pretty frustrated reading people justifying a defective product. I get it I tried to stay positive on my unit as it was being sent back for repair after repair after repair. Trust me after a year or two of dealing with that 4-6 thousand dollar paper weight you will get upset and do anything to get out from under it. I kind of went on a rant there but man I got so depressed reading this whole thread. Not one person got to fire there unit up with out any trouble. I can't believe the whole Dirac live issue. Why do they sell it in the brochure but it isn't even available yet for it. WOW where else but in the audio realm can we be given a bill of goods and sold snake oil all the time. It is just crazy how audio lovers get rolled. Does anyone remember years ago where coloring your CD with green markers was supposed to sound better. It is insane.I better go to bed soon enough I will be here posting my frustrations about my ARCAM . Ugh seriously not looking forward to more headaches.. well if anyone made it to the end of my rant god bless ya and for those who didn't god bless you too lol .. well I hope tomorrow is a better day for everyone and I hope that everyones systems are trouble free.
 

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Well maybe why they released before it was finished, is because they are owned by Samsung now through Harman.
And we all now that samsung has had some glitches with trying to push out products that haven't been tested all the way, like the note phone that exploded or the first foldable that brook for all the reviewers.

So if everyone stays patient and first start to complain when they have release FW 1.0 before judging the products.

Still a lot better then emotiva that are up on FW 1.7 but still has no dirac and several bugs with optical hdmi res. Etc.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
 

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I was having a look at the competition the other day, and saw that NAD also announced a new receiver due to be released before the end of 2019, the T-778.

However, this has been delayed by a couple of months and as far as I'm aware is still not yet available. Interestingly, this also includes Dirac, but its release has been postponed until about the same time as the Dirac module is available for the Arcams.

So I wonder if the cause of the Dirac delay is Dirac itself, and not a fault of Arcam's.

Obviously different strategies between NAD and Arcam, in terms of releasing their hardware as advertised, or while still not feature-complete. Arcam clearly getting a lot of stick for releasing an unstable and incomplete product, whereas I would have thought NAD's strategy would increase expectations and interest. Still, don't see anywhere near as much activity on similar threads dedicated to the NAD receivers.

Personally, although I am really enjoying my AV20, if my dealer allowed it, I'd return my Arcam for the NAD, purely to keep the wife happy, as the NAD unit is smaller and would presumably be a better fit in our cabinet.
 

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So I wonder if the cause of the Dirac delay is Dirac itself, and not a fault of Arcam's.

Obviously different strategies between NAD and Arcam, in terms of releasing their hardware as advertised, or while still not feature-complete. Arcam clearly getting a lot of stick for releasing an unstable and incomplete product, whereas I would have thought NAD's strategy would increase expectations and interest. Still, don't see anywhere near as much activity on similar threads dedicated to the NAD receivers.

Personally, although I am really enjoying my AV20, if my dealer allowed it, I'd return my Arcam for the NAD, purely to keep the wife happy, as the NAD unit is smaller and would presumably be a better fit in our cabinet.
No, it is not Dirac it is Arcam.

The NAD is a 12 ch processor with 9 amplified channels on-board. It's simply a T777v3 with an LCD screen. Not exactly apple to apples with the latest Arcams. More like the previous generation of Arcams.
 

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No, it is not Dirac it is Arcam.
Interesting that you should say that, as far as i am aware Emotiva, Nad and Arcam are all waiting on Dirac?

Admittedly Arcam have released a product that wasn't/isn't ready for release at the moment, however, with the latest firmware/software release it certainly seems to be getting closer.
 

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Interesting that you should say that, as far as i am aware Emotiva, Nad and Arcam are all waiting on Dirac?

Admittedly Arcam have released a product that wasn't/isn't ready for release at the moment, however, with the latest firmware/software release it certainly seems to be getting closer.
The Dirac Live 2.0 Code for Arcam and NAD has been done since 6 months ago, maybe more as they use the same DSP platform. As for Emotiva, they are the only ones that took ADI Griffin DSP platform route and Dirac gave them the API about 8 months ago. It's now up to Emotiva to write their own Dirac Live code as Dirac won't be writing the code for ADI Griffin DSP.
 

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Interesting that you should say that, as far as i am aware Emotiva, Nad and Arcam are all waiting on Dirac?

Admittedly Arcam have released a product that wasn't/isn't ready for release at the moment, however, with the latest firmware/software release it certainly seems to be getting closer.
As Marc mentioned, Dirac isn't at fault. As I mentioned earlier, the Arcam Dirac release is in Beta testing (per Arcam). So they aren't waiting on Dirac. It's like building a house. The last item is the flooring. For instance, you need the test tones on all speakers to be implemented in the software before you can release Dirac.

Building the hardware is the "easy" part. The devil is in the details. ;) In this case, software. Big picture, too many vendors underestimated the software details. This includes D&M's Audyssey app which took many months longer than they anticipated. Or Lyngdorf's MP-50 where it took 6 months to get a stable firmware (much faster on the MP-60). They all thought it was going to go smoother than they anticipated.
 

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Has anyone noticed that CEC control no longer works in the v95 firmware? After updating, my Apple TV 4K no longer turns off the receiver and TV and the option to set it to do so is grayed out. I believe this is because the Trashcam is somehow preventing CEC control. With CEC control enabled on the Trashcam, it worked fine before the update. Now it doesn't.
 
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