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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have a Behringer EP1500 amp which would nicely power an 18 inch pro audio sub in my petit 12’X14’X9’ (Do I hear snickers?) HT. Cerwin-Vega, Harbinger and Behringer make them for about $300 and JBL makes an especially nice one for about $500. If you use an 18" unpowered sub in your HT, please share your experiences with me. Thank you for considering my question.
 

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Are 18 inch unpowered pro audio subs good for HT?


Heck ya! I was given a pair of massive JBL dual 18" subs from my old job cause they weren't being used and took up too much storage space. I brought them to my house for my HT setup and have loved them every time I turn the subs on. When I turn the subs to max I can even shake the 20,000 sq. ft. building I am using them in
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wae5 /forum/post/16999314


I have a Behringer EP1500 amp which would nicely power an 18 inch pro audio sub in my petit 12’X14’X9’ (Do I hear snickers?) HT. Cerwin-Vega, Harbinger and Behringer make them for about $300 and JBL makes an especially nice one for about $500. If you use an 18" unpowered sub in your HT, please share your experiences with me. Thank you for considering my question.

You may have more luck in the DIY subwoofer forum (link below), lots of us using PA amps (the EP2500 is a favorite for price/performance) and lots of users with knowledge of PA style subs (although I'm not one of them
)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=155


Edit: I was thinking more along the lines of the drivers themselves but re-reading your post I realized that's not what you're talking about. The only down side to using PA style subs is they aren't designed to go very low. They will get LOUD but they generally don't give you much below 45hz (many will list that they go to 35 but that's -10dB).
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by ENiGmA1987 /forum/post/16999354


Are 18 inch unpowered pro audio subs good for HT?


Heck ya! I was given a pair of massive JBL dual 18" subs from my old job cause they weren't being used and took up too much storage space. I brought them to my house for my HT setup and have loved them every time I turn the subs on. When I turn the subs to max I can even shake the 20,000 sq. ft. building I am using them in

Thanx ENiGmA! That's what I wanted to hear!
 

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It depends. Pro subs are generally tuned too high to use in the home. However, if they have enough throw you can seal them and add EQ to get the extension you desire. Or you could roll your own, in a small sealed box with EQ. The Peavey Low Rider 18 is an especially good choice, being cheap and longer throw than most pro 18's.


For a while I used a "pro" sub, a Tannoy B475, as my main subwoofer. It (and its successor sub, the VS18DR , which uses the same driver in a slightly bigger box) was unique for a pro-sound sub in that it traded some efficiency for output, with serious un-EQ'ed room output down to the mid-20s. Such a sub is not going to cost $500, though.
 

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You can absolutely use them and get about what a normal movie theater would get. You will just get down to the 30 or 40 hz range but above there the output will be great. Sound quality is generally second in line in the thoughts departments for pro audio subs. You will get better sound from something designed for home use, but it wouldn't hurt to try one out. Be sure to start with the 50 hz filter on and then try out with the 30 hz filter on the amp. Do not turn the filters all the way off!!! Your experiment will turn into a several hundred dollar quick test if you exceed xmax by a ton, which you will do if you play at high levels with just about any movie.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. I already have musical subs so I don't need another one of these. What I want is for the tyrannosaurus footfalls in Jurassic Park to have impact so for these rare moments an 18 pro sub may be just what I need. The nice thing is most places that sell them give you 30 days to return it, if it doesn't work out.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by wae5 /forum/post/17015947


Thanks everyone for your helpful replies. I already have musical subs so I don't need another one of these. What I want is for the tyrannosaurus footfalls in Jurassic Park to have impact so for these rare moments an 18 pro sub may be just what I need. The nice thing is most places that sell them give you 30 days to return it, if it doesn't work out.

Good point about the return policy. I'd like to point out that most of what you're describing above (that you'd like to add to your system) will fall below the usable output of the typical pro sub. Consumer HT subs will be much better in the 20hz-40hz range where you get the shake factor. Of course there are large PA subs that will deliver what you're looking for (something from Danley for example) but at the price it'd be more economical to buy something geared toward HT.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash /forum/post/17002453


Sound quality is generally second in line in the thoughts departments for pro audio subs. You will get better sound from something designed for home use, but it wouldn't hurt to try one out.

I would say the opposite is true, assuming one defines "better sound" as "more faithful to the input signal."


The two biggest issues in fidelity to the input signal for (good) home audio subwoofer are power compression and inductance linearity.


"Pro" woofers are going to be better at both. A typical modern "pro" woofer has a 4" voicecoil, which gives it more surface area to dissipate heat. Additionally, because they are designed to be run full-throttle, they have superior thermal management in general. So they'll perform more like their small-signal parameters would indicate than "home" woofers at loud volumes. Second is inductance linearity. Most "home" subs today still have very primitive motors, that lack even basic shorting rings. Decent motor design is par for the course with pro-audio subs. Also, because their coils tend to be shorter (one can get volume displacement with either cone size or throw) they have naturally lower inductance.


And then you get into technologies such as JBL's "differential drive," which uses spilt coils with the current running in opposite direction. These motors provide lower inductance and potentially better thermal management as well.


Also, if you look at some of the raw pro drivers from better makers (B&C, BMS, JBL, Eminence's better lines, and even Peavey has some really, really good drivers today) you'll see that they are very low in distortion as well.


What a "pro" woofer (singly) won't do is play as loudly down low as a top-tier "home" subwoofer. (I am assuming one has the gear and capability to EQ either one to whatever ultimate response curve one desires.) The best "pro" woofers will have maybe 10-15mm of linear throw. The best "home" woofers today will roughly double that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DS-21 /forum/post/17018120


I would say the opposite is true, assuming one defines "better sound" as "more faithful to the input signal."


The two biggest issues in fidelity to the input signal for (good) home audio subwoofer are power compression and inductance linearity.


"Pro" woofers are going to be better at both. A typical modern "pro" woofer has a 4" voicecoil, which gives it more surface area to dissipate heat. Additionally, because they are designed to be run full-throttle, they have superior thermal management in general. So they'll perform more like their small-signal parameters would indicate than "home" woofers at loud volumes. Second is inductance linearity. Most "home" subs today still have very primitive motors, that lack even basic shorting rings. Decent motor design is par for the course with pro-audio subs. Also, because their coils tend to be shorter (one can get volume displacement with either cone size or throw) they have naturally lower inductance.


And then you get into technologies such as JBL's "differential drive," which uses spilt coils with the current running in opposite direction. These motors provide lower inductance and potentially better thermal management as well.


Also, if you look at some of the raw pro drivers from better makers (B&C, BMS, JBL, Eminence's better lines, and even Peavey has some really, really good drivers today) you'll see that they are very low in distortion as well.


What a "pro" woofer (singly) won't do is play as loudly down low as a top-tier "home" subwoofer. (I am assuming one has the gear and capability to EQ either one to whatever ultimate response curve one desires.) The best "pro" woofers will have maybe 10-15mm of linear throw. The best "home" woofers today will roughly double that.

I will agree that the best pro audio drivers sound great, but the one the op is talking about use lesser quality drivers, maybe aside from the jbl and I am still not sure about a $500 jbl. If you were talking about danley or worx then I will completely agree, but for the lesser cost pro subs the rated specs are usually not even close to what you get. It may be rated to do 40 hz but further investigation may let you find that its more like 50 hz and just a straight downward pointing response or close to it afterwards. I just think that with most drivers that are pro drivers their xmax is more limited (5-6 mm) and will reach way beyond xmax when a 20 hz tone is tried to pass through it at 110 db.
 

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I have a Madison M1-218 which is a 13 cubic foot enclosure with a slot port housing two pro 18" drivers. First of all it takes a lot less power to get high SPLs, has great impact, and with test tones would even go down to 10hz. I didn't measure how loud down there, but that fact that it was able to reach without total distress was a plus in my book. I got the best results when I had it in a sealed room as the benefit of room gain helped to pick up the slack where it would generally start to roll off. I don't use it in my current theater as it is an open floor plan as I'm achieving better results with 4) sealed high excursion 18s nearfield.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manic1! /forum/post/17024899


PA subs are not meant for low bass. I have 2 18 inch Yamaha club series subs for my P.A. rig and they are only good to 30 HZ. Right from there website:

SW118V

18" cast frame driver

Response down to 30Hz

Efficient Bass reflex design

Great for use with dance music

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/...07&CTID=229400


For a HT sub you want something that goes lower that 30 hz.

You are using the exact subs I'm considering buying in this thread!
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1175641

Care to provide more details on your exp? What amp are you using? Do you have problems with them bottoming out on movie LFE material? Are you still using the yamaha subs? What exp. do you have with actual home subs - which models?
 

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I dont mean to still attention from the op but I felt it would be a waste to start a thread just for this.


Does a 15 inch speaker perform louder than a 12inch speaker of the same constructio? If yes is this always the case or are their exceptions or does it have to do with frequency?
 

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FWIW, as I'll recall, awhile back I had wondered the same thing as the OP, and if you look at alot of the specs for any 18" pro audio sub, all of em will list that they can only go as low as like 35-45hz or so.
 

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Like DS-21, some pro woofers can hang but they are often very expensive. This review was quite interesting on the topic:

Quote:
I removed two Velodyne DD-18s from this install and replaced it with one Tc (Pro) 5100. The Tc Sounds blew the Velidynes away. The Tc Sounds woofer played lower, louder, and with no audible distortion at over a 135db in a 24'x 20' (480 sq.ft.) room

source:
http://www.parts-express.com/pe/show...number=293-674
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea /forum/post/20025055


$900 for just the speaker!?!?!



2.5" travel!

More importantly, almost 95dB sensitivity. Very impressive XMax considering the sensitivity.


I still pick the LMS5400 over the 5100 because I want 10Hz



btw, People are buying $3K subwoofers all the time, why are you worried about a $900 driver? Build a 4 cuft box ($100), buy a 4000 Watt amp ($600) and a EQ/LT circuit ($200) and you have a $1800 subwoofer that can not be beat by anything talked about daily in this forum in the same price range.


If you do not want to build anything contact Funky Waves and ask them to put a 5100 instead of the 5400 into their sub designs. Of course I think the MSRP is > $3K on that design.
 
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