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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi,


We have all been here before. Are all the amplifiers the same? Recent review of Integra dhc 60.5 which I was very interested to buy suggests otherwise.


Two independant sites and two independant reviewers have come up with same conclusion that dialogue in Integra dhc 60.5 is inchoerent and muddy. Can't be a coincidence?


Sound&Vision.com:
http://www.soundandvision.com/content/integra-dhc-605-network-av-controller-page-2



Home Theatre Review:
http://hometheaterreview.com/integra-dhc-605-72-channel-av-preamp/


What do you good folks say.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24558755


Please don't confuse amps and processors. There are plenty of differences among processors.

LOL....if he's interested in buying one it was probably just an honest mistake.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Oh....I thought even all the processors were the same...noob mistake that was led by noob reply by senior member on my other thread ( http://www.avsforum.com/t/1521063/integra-60-5 )


However my question here would be that how could the same site love onkyo 1009 and absolutely hate integra 60.5 as integra seems to be an upgraded version of onkyo's.
 

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Why would two reviews, done over half a year apart have similarities? Teachers often struggle with such questions when looking at student papers, or maybe you yourself have noted it when reading something like a movie synopsis at different websites. Why would two reviewers who report on the performance of a processor and compare it to something that they own not present room graphs at the seating position, before and after along with the settings, when that may indeed yield further insight? When you can answer those sorts of questions then perhaps you can draw some personal insights as to the competence of the reviewers and their thoroughness.
 

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I think Chu Gai was overly kind but his comment hits the mark. I stopped reading magazine audio reviews decades ago. I've learned that they are nonsense for the most part and have actually spread a lot of misinformation around the the consumer audio world. If you enjoy reading them, that's fine, but I would suggest you not take them seriously.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24559312


I think Chu Gai was overly kind but his comment hits the mark. I stopped reading magazine audio reviews decades ago. I've learned that they are nonsense for the most part and have actually spread a lot of misinformation around the the consumer audio world. If you enjoy reading them, that's fine, but I would suggest you not take them seriously.

Like some who post on this forum


Not directed at you, find your posts honest/informative, but you have to pay attention to the fanboys or girls vs. those who are really offering "sound" advice.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hussain  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24558921


Oh....I thought even all the processors were the same...noob mistake that was led by noob reply by senior member on my other thread ( http://www.avsforum.com/t/1521063/integra-60-5 )
You may not have read the response you are quoting. If not, here it is, the complete quote:
Quote:
Conventional wisdom that the basic sound of all good amplifiers is indistinguishable as long as the amp is used within its nominal capabilties.
Note the quote references amplifiers, not processors and also note the part I put in bold.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by David James  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24559683


You may not have read the response you are quoting. If not, here it is, the complete quote:

Note the quote references amplifiers, not processors and also note the part I put in bold.

I think you did not read my question in the post I asked about receivers and the reply came about amplifiers. Hence the confusion.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24559312


I think Chu Gai was overly kind but his comment hits the mark. I stopped reading magazine audio reviews decades ago. I've learned that they are nonsense for the most part and have actually spread a lot of misinformation around the the consumer audio world. If you enjoy reading them, that's fine, but I would suggest you not take them seriously.

The problem is that I cannot test receivers in my home theatre room, so I have to rely on reviewers not to make a bad mistake. I am looking to make a "blind" investment of 2000 usd so I need to know that I am not messing up. Hence I have no other method but to rely on reviews.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hussain  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24559824


The problem is that I cannot test receivers in my home theatre room, so I have to rely on reviewers not to make a bad mistake. I am looking to make a "blind" investment of 2000 usd so I need to know that I am not messing up. Hence I have no other method but to rely on reviews.

I find that researching it here on AVS is usually better then reading it in a magazine, or to go audition in a showroom if you can. Only your ears can truly judge what you like.


There are a lot of movie critics out there that trash movies that are pretty solid, I more often find myself siding with user reviews.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hussain  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24559824


The problem is that I cannot test receivers in my home theatre room, so I have to rely on reviewers not to make a bad mistake. I am looking to make a "blind" investment of 2000 usd so I need to know that I am not messing up. Hence I have no other method but to rely on reviews.

It's pretty hard to make a bad mistake. I'm not aware of any incompetent receivers among the major brands. They have different room correction routines but the results are similar between brands. There are different features but most brands have similar lineups with similar brands. As long as stay with the major makers and choose a model with the features you want and will use, you are likely to be happy with it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24559913


It's pretty hard to make a bad mistake. I'm not aware of any incompetent receivers among the major brands. They have different room correction routines but the results are similar between brands. There are different features but most brands have similar lineups with similar brands. As long as stay with the major makers and choose a model with the features you want and will use, you are likely to be happy with it.

However in this case 60.5 seems to be an exception with two reviewers confirming the bad dailogues.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hussain  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24560444


However in this case 60.5 seems to be an exception with two reviewers confirming the bad dailogues.

That assumes that you believe them. I wouldn't pay any attention at all to it. Magazine reviews are nonsense.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24560552


That assumes that you believe them. I wouldn't pay any attention at all to it. Magazine reviews are nonsense.
Usually, folks on this site run down magazine reviews because they feel the mags are just chasing advertising $, falsely raving about "spacious" sound, or "shimmering" highs and "thunderous" lows. For not one, but two of the mags to criticize a major brand offering, for the same problem, does suggest the problem may be real. What would be their angle to criticize this particular receiver?


For my money, it's a valid concern. Something to do with the HDBaseT technology maybe?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jontyrees  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24560930

Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24560552


That assumes that you believe them. I wouldn't pay any attention at all to it. Magazine reviews are nonsense.
Usually, folks on this site run down magazine reviews because they feel the mags are just chasing advertising $, falsely raving about "spacious" sound, or "shimmering" highs and "thunderous" lows. For not one, but two of the mags to criticize a major brand offering, for the same problem, does suggest the problem may be real. What would be their angle to criticize this particular receiver?


For my money, it's a valid concern. Something to do with the HDBaseT technology maybe?
The reviews are criticized because they're shallow, superficial, follow a predictable and largely unimaginative format, relying heavily upon any advertising documents the vendor may send along to fill up space. Perhaps to be expected when they're only paid a couple of hundred dollars per review and aren't on anything resembling a substantial salary.


Mickey Fremer is pretty much a two channel vinyl guy. What in God's name makes him qualified to put a processor through its paces is beyond me. Hence, if he doesn't include room responses in his review, a more likely explanation for finding the sound wanting is that he screwed something up. As to the other guy, who knows. Maybe the same reason. Maybe he read Fremer's review and decided to take the safe route and paraphrase things. Safety in numbers you know. Either way, that particular processor is geared to the ahataiab installer market.p so unless you plan on going that route and paying someone to set the thing up, excusing you from the heavy lifting, maybe one should look elsewhere.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chu Gai  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24562299


The reviews are criticized because they're shallow, superficial, follow a predictable and largely unimaginative format, relying heavily upon any advertising documents the vendor may send along to fill up space. Perhaps to be expected when they're only paid a couple of hundred dollars per review and aren't on anything resembling a substantial salary.


Mickey Fremer is pretty much a two channel vinyl guy. What in God's name makes him qualified to put a processor through its paces is beyond me. Hence, if he doesn't include room responses in his review, a more likely explanation for finding the sound wanting is that he screwed something up. As to the other guy, who knows. Maybe the same reason. Maybe he read Fremer's review and decided to take the safe route and paraphrase things. Safety in numbers you know. Either way, that particular processor is geared to the ahataiab installer market.p so unless you plan on going that route and paying someone to set the thing up, excusing you from the heavy lifting, maybe one should look elsewhere.
Magazine reviews are another data point. You wouldn't want to take them as gospel, but I'd give them a little more credence than most of the single reviews on sites like this. Take the mass of reviews on sites like this and you might start to get a decent picture of a particular unit or brand. There's so much bias and favoritism from enthusiastic amateurs - it's as if they are rooting for their chosen football team. I would agree that one of those reviewers might have read the other's review, and just followed with the same criticism. They are at least trying to be objective though, and aren't trying to justify their own purchases as people here often do. I haven't the faintest idea who Mickey Fremer is, but if he has an ear on either side of his head, he's as qualified as anyone else to review that processor. What do the amateurs say about that unit?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by FMW  /t/1525452/are-all-amplifiers-the-s...d-by-reviewers-across-the-board#post_24559913


They have different room correction routines but the results are similar between brands.
Please provide links/data to support this assertion. MCACC, YPAO, Audyssey XT32 etc. are very different products.
 
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