[Murilo]

Im just curious since I just spent money purchasing an adcom 545 amp for my two front speakers after i broke the connection for my two fronts on my yamaha rx-v661. Now maybe i will feel different but in my research i had trouble understanding are amps really necessary?


Im curious who purchases amps and why, for me it was a cheaper replacement small upgrade to my speaker problem.


DO people who use amps have large speakers and play things really loud. My rooms like 15X25 7.1 system but i found my yamaha played everything fine. Mind you i dont like playing things to loud -15 was about as loud as I watched a movie and im no audiophile. But all i could decipher is amps were for very picky audio files or people who played things extremely loud. Aren't built in receiver amps today good enough?

 

[Sitting Bull]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo /forum/post/18208440


Im just curious since I just spent money purchasing an adcom 545 amp for my two front speakers after i broke the connection for my two fronts on my yamaha rx-v661. Now maybe i will feel different but in my research i had trouble understanding are amps really necessary?


Im curious who purchases amps and why, for me it was a cheaper replacement small upgrade to my speaker problem.


DO people who use amps have large speakers and play things really loud. My rooms like 15X25 7.1 system but i found my yamaha played everything fine. Mind you i dont like playing things to loud -15 was about as loud as I watched a movie and im no audiophile. But all i could decipher is amps were for very picky audio files or people who played things extremely loud. Aren't built in receiver amps today good enough?

They certainly are good enough! You can spend mega bucks on amps but they are NOT going to sound any different at normal listening levels to the ones that came in your AVR.


This website will help you understand all the ins and outs of the current "audiophile" press' purely subjective BS reviews of the high priced gear that sounds no different than moderately priced stuff.

http://www.theaudiocritic.com/plog/

 

[krab]

There seems to be 2 schools of thought on this forum.


Many prefer A/V receivers and there are many excellent units in all price ranges. You will definitely use less cables with receivers and they are generally easier to set up. Usually people don't use additional amps because most receivers have more than adequate power. Of course it's your Prerogative to add them if you feel the need but most people will tell you not to waste your $$$$.


Then, there are many like myself who prefer separate components. I have a 12' X 14' dedicated room and I get along fine with separates. Actually I have been using separates for 25 years so that's what I buy.


There are also a few good systems where the amps are located in the speaker enclosures. I have never heard them except for powered subs so I can't comment.

 

[MichaelJHuman]

There are about 4 long threads on the topic you can search on. This topic is rehashed very often.


Note, large speakers are often MORE efficient, and require LESS power than smaller speakers.

 

[Selden Ball]

Separate amps are necessary when the amps in the AVR are inadequate for the speakers and room that one has. (Upgrading the speakers is usually more effective.)


Separate amps are desirable when one wants to have more fun connecting equipment together. How else is one going to scratch the upgradeitis itch?

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by krab /forum/post/18208486


There seems to be 2 schools of thought on this forum.


Many prefer A/V receivers and there are many excellent units in all price ranges. You will definitely use less cables with receivers and they are generally easier to set up. Usually people don't use additional amps because most receivers have more than adequate power. Of course it's your Prerogative to add them if you feel the need but most people will tell you not to waste your $$$$.


Then, there are many like myself who prefer separate components. I have a 12' X 14' dedicated room and I get along fine with separates. Actually I have been using separates for 25 years so that's what I buy.


There are also a few good systems where the amps are located in the speaker enclosures. I have never heard them except for powered subs so I can't comment.

Close but the truth is the following....


1. Some speakers have impedance curves that normal AVRs can not handle.


2. Some people desire SPL that the watts from a normal AVRs can not handle. Most people do not realize that peaks during movies requires more then 100Watts!! Most AVRs product less then 100 Watts with all channels driven.


3. Some people have active designs where there is a requirement for the amp to be seperated from the processor. Ie. AVR -> DSP/Crossover -> Amp



I think that is it...Any other reason for buying an amp would go under the category of subjecitivty and audio ignorance.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Murilo /forum/post/18208440


Im just curious since I just spent money purchasing an adcom 545 amp for my two front speakers after i broke the connection for my two fronts on my yamaha rx-v661. Now maybe i will feel different but in my research i had trouble understanding are amps really necessary?


Im curious who purchases amps and why, for me it was a cheaper replacement small upgrade to my speaker problem.


DO people who use amps have large speakers and play things really loud. My rooms like 15X25 7.1 system but i found my yamaha played everything fine. Mind you i dont like playing things to loud -15 was about as loud as I watched a movie and im no audiophile. But all i could decipher is amps were for very picky audio files or people who played things extremely loud. Aren't built in receiver amps today good enough?

Im definitely not a picky audio file but in general I believe the amps in AVRs are just not good enough in many aspects. They do not handle dips in impedance very well and they general have very little power to handle the peaks during movies, which can be 20 to 30dBs (which means crazy Power is need for split seconds). Generally I try to make sure my listening level power is 1/100th of my peak power requirements and I only use high sensitivity speakers to ensure I do not need 500W!!

 

[Chicagorep]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/18208800


Im definitely not a picky audio file but in general I believe the amps in AVRs are just not good enough in many aspects. They do not handle dips in impedance very well and they general have very little power to handle the peaks during movies, which can be 20 to 30dBs (which means crazy Power is need for split seconds).

Boy penngray, I think for the first time I agree with you.

 

[Mr. Brownstone]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/18208800


Im definitely not a picky audio file but in general I believe the amps in AVRs are just not good enough in many aspects. They do not handle dips in impedance very well and they general have very little power to handle the peaks during movies, which can be 20 to 30dBs (which means crazy Power is need for split seconds). Generally I try to make sure my listening level power is 1/100th of my peak power requirements and I only use high sensitivity speakers to ensure I do not need 500W!!

This is all true conceptually, but it always comes down to a particular user, his speakers, his room and his listening habits. If the original poster is using a receiver and the system is consistently achieving the listening levels he wants with the material he actually plays, then, no, he doesn't need nor is likely to benefit from more-powerful amplification. And I dig excess power.

 

[Noubourne]

No, amps are not necessary.


If you want to experience something, just go there firsthand and experience it yourself. Go to the opera. Go to the theater. See concerts. Stand under a helicopter as it takes off. Lay siege to the Dark Tower and take up the broken hilt of your father's sword Narsil to sever the One Ring from Sauron's finger.


Nothing compares to the real thing.

 

[Brian McKay]

Do you need a V6 or V8 engine in your car when a 4cyl will get you to the speed limit? Nope but just like a bigger engine, your system will be able to accelerate (peak transients) faster without running out of power (clipping).


Lots of high end speakers will eat a receiver up as the impedance will dip quite low and without the extra current capacity your going to clip the amp which is death for speakers.

 

[MKtheater]

I think that is the problem. Penn mentioned it earlier, many people don't realize how much power is actually needed. Specs are nice but they never tell the whole story and whi knows if they are accurate. Now the OP does not watch loud movies or music and had already bought an amp so I don't know he posted this thread as he can tell us the difference when he gets the amp, if there is one. I know I did an experiement recently and I need much more power for my speakers that any spl calculator told me. Basically I was clipping, shutting down, and compressing 200 watts and lower amps in 4 ohms. I thought it was an impedance thing but I used a 4 ohm higher powered amp and everything is fine. All the calculators said I needed 25 watts to reach my goals, I guess there is more to this than we think.

 

[Djoel]

Clipping, and the SHUT DOWN flashing in ones AVR's screen is something I never ever what to see..very disheartening if you ask me.


DJOel

 

[Chicagorep]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian McKay /forum/post/18210576


Do you need a V6 or V8 engine in your car when a 4cyl will get you to the speed limit? Nope but just like a bigger engine, your system will be able to accelerate (peak transients) faster without running out of power (clipping).


Lots of high end speakers will eat a receiver up as the impedance will dip quite low and without the extra current capacity your going to clip the amp which is death for speakers.

That's a good analogy Brian. Mind if I use it?

 

[phantom52]

They are if you buy speakers that 4 ohm or are hard to drive and a budget receiver. Buy a budget receiver with pre-outs and then get the amp. That way you can buy whatever speakers you want. Lots of choices for the receivers and the amps. Harder to find speakers that you want to keep for a long time.JMHO.

 

[michanecash]



Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 /forum/post/18211828


They are if you buy speakers that 4 ohm or are hard to drive and a budget receiver. Buy a budget receiver with pre-outs and then get the amp. That way you can buy whatever speakers you want. Lots of choices for the receivers and the amps. Harder to find speakers that you want to keep for a long time.JMHO.

Stupid question time.


So when you wire an amp, you run your wires out of the receiver, into the amp and then to your speaker right? I have been looking into an amp, but have never previewed a system with one, or actually even seen one hooked up before.

 

[Brian McKay]



Quote:
Originally Posted by michanecash /forum/post/18211873


Stupid question time.


So when you wire an amp, you run your wires out of the receiver, into the amp and then to your speaker right? I have been looking into an amp, but have never previewed a system with one, or actually even seen one hooked up before.

Line level out to your amp (either balanced or unbalanced) and then speaker wire to the speakers. You also get into more elaborate setups with miltiple amps for bi-amping, which would be line level (from the preamp) to an external cross-over to the amps and then to the speakers. This is basicly what you are doing with a powered sub.


Think of it as taking your reciever and splitting into 2 boxes - a preamp and a poweramp.

 

[Lhasa-lover]



Quote:
Originally Posted by michanecash /forum/post/18211873


...So when you wire an amp, you run your wires out of the receiver, into the amp and then to your speaker right.

Bottom line...right.

 

[phantom52]

Its as Brian stated, but to make it simpler very few receivers have balanced outputs. So for the sake of ease you need a receiver with pre-outs to go into the amp. And then the speakers are connected to the amp. In most cases a good 3 channel amp is sufficient unless you are driving 4 ohm speakers all around. In which case you would want either a good 5 channel or 7 channel amp. In the case of easier to drive speakers the 3 channel would be used to drive the L/C/R fronts and let the receiver power the surrounds. There are many amps to choose from, with Emotiva at this time seeming to be the best buy or "bang for the buck" amps. One of these in however many channels you want or need and a good budget receiver with pre-outs makes for a very good system.

 

[ruadmaa]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Noubourne /forum/post/18210323


No, amps are not necessary.


If you want to experience something, just go there firsthand and experience it yourself. Go to the opera. Go to the theater. See concerts. Stand under a helicopter as it takes off. Lay siege to the Dark Tower and take up the broken hilt of your father's sword Narsil to sever the One Ring from Sauron's finger.

Nothing compares to the real thing.

Many people have gone to live concerts never realizing that they were really listening to a recording instead of the vocalist actually singing. I believe there was a big stink about some Madonna concerts a while back.