Are CRT RPTV's with 9" guns still an option?
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Misubishi makes 65 inch and 73 inch models with 9 inch guns. If you want the best picture quality possible in a rear projection set buy them. If you want inferior Picture Quality buy RP LCD, JVC D-ILA , Philips LCos, or DLP--get inferior Picture Quality--and pretend it's great. You'll feel at home with the multitudes if you do. It won't matter that the Picture Quality isn't the best because all that matters is "What's Best in your eyes" and other drivel such as factors that have nothing to do with Absolute Picture Quality, but are very important--especially in deluding yourself, but most of all very valued components in your view being likeable, tolerant, and a well respected member of the Pro Video Display Industry's PR team. Do enough research on the subject and I'm sure your choice will be exactly what you deserve!
Artwood, that response is a little over the top bro. I have a mits 65813 and a sammy kirk.
No question the mits has better movie PQ (HD or DVD) and better PQ for the darker prime time shows. And SD is better on the mits.
But HD sports and most HD programming is better on the sammy.
If I had to choose one, I'd choose the sammy because I fall asleep in front of the TV a lot - not the mits because I'm worried about it. I worry when I'm playing Xbox or doom3 on the mits. While I use both for sage tv and general HTPC stuff, I actually use the sammy as a monitor.
But the mits is a much better $deal if you don't need the versatility of a digital set. The 813 series are selling on closeout right now since the 815s are now hitting stores. Good time to be in the market if you're considering it.
jb
No question the mits has better movie PQ (HD or DVD) and better PQ for the darker prime time shows. And SD is better on the mits.
But HD sports and most HD programming is better on the sammy.
If I had to choose one, I'd choose the sammy because I fall asleep in front of the TV a lot - not the mits because I'm worried about it. I worry when I'm playing Xbox or doom3 on the mits. While I use both for sage tv and general HTPC stuff, I actually use the sammy as a monitor.
But the mits is a much better $deal if you don't need the versatility of a digital set. The 813 series are selling on closeout right now since the 815s are now hitting stores. Good time to be in the market if you're considering it.
jb
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No consumer CRT projection display can rival DLP and LCOS for display of 720p60 content. For a channel like FOX, ABC, or ESPN, no consumer CRT is going to rival the 1280x720 @ 60 fps display of a DLP when it must convert the picture signal to 1280x540 @ 30 fps for display.
| If you want inferior Picture Quality buy RP LCD, JVC D-ILA , Philips LCos, or DLP--get inferior Picture Quality--and pretend it's great. |
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Finally, another person who gets it.
| Originally posted by bfdtv No consumer CRT projection display can rival DLP and LCOS for display of 720p60 content. For a channel like FOX, ABC, or ESPN, no consumer CRT is going to rival the 1280x720 @ 60 fps display of a DLP when it must convert the picture signal to 1280x540 @ 30 fps for display. |
Finally, another person who gets it.
"But HD sports and most HD programming is better on the sammy."
Which Sammy do you have? Anyway HD sports is better? and most HD programing? What other HD programs?
"If I had to choose one, I'd choose the sammy because I fall asleep in front of the TV a lot - not the mits because I'm worried about it. I worry when I'm playing Xbox or doom3 on the mits. While I use both for sage tv and general HTPC stuff, I actually use the sammy as a monitor. "
Those are not PQ issues.
Which Sammy do you have? Anyway HD sports is better? and most HD programing? What other HD programs?
"If I had to choose one, I'd choose the sammy because I fall asleep in front of the TV a lot - not the mits because I'm worried about it. I worry when I'm playing Xbox or doom3 on the mits. While I use both for sage tv and general HTPC stuff, I actually use the sammy as a monitor. "
Those are not PQ issues.
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I noticed you left out NBC, PBS, UPN, CBS all 1080i, that fixed pixel displays must scale down to 720P.
I like DLP a lot but the color wheel and the rainbow effect, including poor black levels/shadow detail(black crush) in comparison to CRT's is just too much to ignore.
I really think the time is now for 3 chip DLP.
| Originally posted by bfdtv No consumer CRT projection display can rival DLP and LCOS for display of 720p60 content. For a channel like FOX, ABC, or ESPN, no consumer CRT is going to rival the 1280x720 @ 60 fps display of a DLP when it must convert the picture signal to 1280x540 @ 30 fps for display. |
I noticed you left out NBC, PBS, UPN, CBS all 1080i, that fixed pixel displays must scale down to 720P.
I like DLP a lot but the color wheel and the rainbow effect, including poor black levels/shadow detail(black crush) in comparison to CRT's is just too much to ignore.
I really think the time is now for 3 chip DLP.
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Yes, unfortunately, at this point in time, all consumer CRT and DLP projection televisions make trade offs. You can't have your cake and eat it too. If you watch primarily ABC, FOX, and ESPN, it's easy to argue for a DLP. If you watch anything else, it's easy to argue for CRT.
A future 1080p LCOS or DLP might mean the best of both worlds, provided they can improve the black levels and eliminate the rainbow / screendoor effects. The Sony 70" 1080p LCOS certainly looks interesting. Now if only they'd cut the price tag by 60% or 70%...
| I noticed you left out NBC, PBS, UPN, CBS all 1080i, that fixed pixel displays must scale down to 720P. |
A future 1080p LCOS or DLP might mean the best of both worlds, provided they can improve the black levels and eliminate the rainbow / screendoor effects. The Sony 70" 1080p LCOS certainly looks interesting. Now if only they'd cut the price tag by 60% or 70%...
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I just did that, and I know at least one other person on the forum did too (calls himself web). But, the 815s are in stores now, so the 813s are going fast if not already gone.
I've had my WS 65813 since Oct 2 and I'm thrilled. I've done tweaks so far based on what's been recommended in this forum but my digital video essentials disk was back ordered over at deepdiscountdvd so it is in the mail now. Not sure if I'm going to spend the cash on an ISF calibration as I'm pretty darn thrilled with the progressive output on my new Sony 5-disk 685 player.
| The 813 series are selling on closeout right now since the 815s are now hitting stores. Good time to be in the market if you're considering it. |
I've had my WS 65813 since Oct 2 and I'm thrilled. I've done tweaks so far based on what's been recommended in this forum but my digital video essentials disk was back ordered over at deepdiscountdvd so it is in the mail now. Not sure if I'm going to spend the cash on an ISF calibration as I'm pretty darn thrilled with the progressive output on my new Sony 5-disk 685 player.
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Were you having a bad day, or are you always like that? What's up with the attack? Did a DLP attack you in your sleep or something?
| Originally posted by Artwood Misubishi makes 65 inch and 73 inch models with 9 inch guns. If you want the best picture quality possible in a rear projection set buy them. If you want inferior Picture Quality buy RP LCD, JVC D-ILA , Philips LCos, or DLP--get inferior Picture Quality--and pretend it's great. |
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I don't think the original question was purely PQ focused. Total value goes to the viability of 9" guns. I'd tell anyone to buy a 9 incher but Artwood was a little strong in his bias.
I've only watched football and baseball so far on the Mits - maybe a little soccer. The Network crime dramas in HD all look better on the mits, nature programming is also better but closer to a wash. Most (HD channel) sitcoms, news, late night programming, etc. - none of which I really watch - looks better on the sammy.
And xbox and pc games look better on the sammy.
jb
| Originally posted by Auditor55 "But HD sports and most HD programming is better on the sammy." Which Sammy do you have? Anyway HD sports is better? and most HD programing? What other HD programs? "If I had to choose one, I'd choose the sammy because I fall asleep in front of the TV a lot - not the mits because I'm worried about it. I worry when I'm playing Xbox or doom3 on the mits. While I use both for sage tv and general HTPC stuff, I actually use the sammy as a monitor. " Those are not PQ issues. |
I've only watched football and baseball so far on the Mits - maybe a little soccer. The Network crime dramas in HD all look better on the mits, nature programming is also better but closer to a wash. Most (HD channel) sitcoms, news, late night programming, etc. - none of which I really watch - looks better on the sammy.
And xbox and pc games look better on the sammy.
jb
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Congrats on your new set. A something to keep in mind. Hold off on extensive tweeking and/or ISF calibration for at least 3 months. These sets tend to drift a bit before they settle-in. The picture tends to improve quite a bit during the break in period (deeper and richer) but those perfectly dialed-in settings loose the original reference point. If you've already put some effort into tweaking you should re-do them after that period is over (doesn't hurt anything but kind of burns your time a bit).
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And to the original topic - 9" gun sets are still very viable and desired. That being said, there is no perfect set for everyone/opinions are like %%%holes/buy what's right for you with your money/home entertainment is meant to be enjoyed not treated like religious dogma
| Originally posted by Steve_in_L.A. I just did that, and I know at least one other person on the forum did too (calls himself web). But, the 815s are in stores now, so the 813s are going fast if not already gone. I've had my WS 65813 since Oct 2 and I'm thrilled. I've done tweaks so far based on what's been recommended in this forum but my digital video essentials disk was back ordered over at deepdiscountdvd so it is in the mail now. Not sure if I'm going to spend the cash on an ISF calibration as I'm pretty darn thrilled with the progressive output on my new Sony 5-disk 685 player. |
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And to the original topic - 9" gun sets are still very viable and desired. That being said, there is no perfect set for everyone/opinions are like %%%holes/buy what's right for you with your money/home entertainment is meant to be enjoyed not treated like religious dogma
For one moment let's not discuss the obvious such as which technologies perform better.
Would it be fair to say that black level and resolution are two important components of Picture Quality? Would it also be fair to say that if one could get BOTH and at a lower cost than in other sets that that would constitute a great value?
The Mitsubishi 9-inch guns will give you MORE resolution AND BETTER black levels than other sets per square inch than any other sets anywhere. NO other sets will have better black levels and MOST will not offer as good resolution.
Now oh learned know it alls, proponents for the technologies they purchased and ever defenders of aspects other than Picture Quality please give me a list off all sets that do better in BOTH resolution and black level for a lower price...I'm waiting. There are no such sets. There aren't better values, so I guess you'll just have to change the topic to other areas, but when you do explain why other picture quality components make a bigger difference in Picture Quality than RESOLUTION and BLACK LEVEL. He who has ears to hear let him hear. Case Closed again!
Would it be fair to say that black level and resolution are two important components of Picture Quality? Would it also be fair to say that if one could get BOTH and at a lower cost than in other sets that that would constitute a great value?
The Mitsubishi 9-inch guns will give you MORE resolution AND BETTER black levels than other sets per square inch than any other sets anywhere. NO other sets will have better black levels and MOST will not offer as good resolution.
Now oh learned know it alls, proponents for the technologies they purchased and ever defenders of aspects other than Picture Quality please give me a list off all sets that do better in BOTH resolution and black level for a lower price...I'm waiting. There are no such sets. There aren't better values, so I guess you'll just have to change the topic to other areas, but when you do explain why other picture quality components make a bigger difference in Picture Quality than RESOLUTION and BLACK LEVEL. He who has ears to hear let him hear. Case Closed again!
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DE JA VU
This same discussion seems to get reincarnated every week these days on this forum. Nobody is getting tired of it yet (other than me)?
This same discussion seems to get reincarnated every week these days on this forum. Nobody is getting tired of it yet (other than me)?
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Thanks Chris. I have heard this and I intend to follow up. I'm not among what are probably the most anal here, although I am very serious about quality. But, I'm so pleased with the film-like quality of DVDs like LOTR at this point that I am not currently feeling the need to spend $700 for ISF calibration. Based on what I've read about them, issues like bad focus or dirty lenses 1) seem to apply less to brand new sets and more to those that have been sitting around in a dusty corner for at least a couple of years already, and 2) in any case, these issues do not seem evident with my set in a way that ruins the enjoyment of watching. Like most new owners, though, I won't rule it out. I mean, we hear SO MUCH about ISF calibration endlessly from the magazines and from forums like this one, how could we ?
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Marc, just want to say I appreciate your willingness to continue to weigh in on these CRT RPTV threads. I printed the whole mitsu CRT thread recently and have used your advice there and others for my initial tweaking. I appreciate that it must get old after a while, but just look at the interest this new thread is generating! Any other words of wisdom you'd care to hyperlink us to here would be welcome!
I'll also just add at this point that since Feb I've REALLY, REALLY wanted a table-top solution to my HT needs (focused on LCD RPTV mostly), but after going through some serious learning and thinking, I am in love with the results from this CRT in a way I didn't think would be possible here until late this decade. The downside of course is the massive size of the set. That aside, my first month with the unit has exceeded my expectations.
| Congrats on your new set. A something to keep in mind. Hold off on extensive tweaking and/or ISF calibration for at least 3 months. These sets tend to drift a bit before they settle-in. The picture tends to improve quite a bit during the break in period (deeper and richer) but those perfectly dialed-in settings loose the original reference point. If you've already put some effort into tweaking you should re-do them after that period is over (doesn't hurt anything but kind of burns your time a bit). |
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| This same discussion seems to get reincarnated every week these days on this forum. Nobody is getting tired of it yet (other than me)? |
I'll also just add at this point that since Feb I've REALLY, REALLY wanted a table-top solution to my HT needs (focused on LCD RPTV mostly), but after going through some serious learning and thinking, I am in love with the results from this CRT in a way I didn't think would be possible here until late this decade. The downside of course is the massive size of the set. That aside, my first month with the unit has exceeded my expectations.
I was also sold on the idea of having a tabletop display, and believe me... I wanted to love the technology. I live in NYC, in a 5th floor walkup with narrow stairs and no elevator. I looked at all the technologies within my price range (which excluded plasma) and although they each had their strong points for me (mostly size) I could not get past the digitally unnatural feeling I got from fixed pixel displays. After arriving at this forum, I was led toward the 9 inch guns on the Mitsubishi's. Let me say that after 3 weeks of owning a 73713, I couldn't be happier and I positively know that I made the right choice for my needs, although it was a nightmare experience (with a happy ending) getting it in the apartment. I watch mostly DVD's with my Denon 3910, and it looks almost as good as HD. For a truly cinematic experience, there really is no contest. It looks closer to film than any of the other technologies I have seen, including plasma. I don't play videogames on the set or connect it to my computer. I don't watch SD and very little HDTV, so I cannot fully comment on its comparative performance in those departments, but I can tell you that HDTV looks beautiful (not so much when the Yankees are losing, though) and SD is certainly acceptable. If DVD viewing with the best possible PQ is your priority then in my opinion, it should be a no-brainer.
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I'm here just waiting on the sidelines on this one, but I'll jump in if need be, you know I love rp-crt.
PS. I just did the black filter mod and it made a big difference. I think a two stop filter though would work better for night viewing though, but definitely improved. I also watched all three Star Wars Movies through my HTPC (fdshow in zoom player) and it was just awesome, gotta love 1280x720p true 1:1 pixel mapping. You guys know I love pictures so don't tempt me.
| Originally posted by NVboy It's wearing pretty thin on me, but only because Jose isn't around (yet) to spice things up a bit. |
PS. I just did the black filter mod and it made a big difference. I think a two stop filter though would work better for night viewing though, but definitely improved. I also watched all three Star Wars Movies through my HTPC (fdshow in zoom player) and it was just awesome, gotta love 1280x720p true 1:1 pixel mapping. You guys know I love pictures so don't tempt me.
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