[Kid Red]

I read a thread yesterday about the Panny 53x54 and got interested in CRTs. So I went to Sears and was impressed with the Panny 53x54 an the JVC 56" sets. They looked hot. The sets are all elevated now, so it' hard to see the vertical viewing angle limitations. I know you can't go too far off center before it gets faded. My biggest concern was always that the center of the images were brighter then the edges. That the set itself has a bright spot and degraded the picture because of the faded edges. I did not see that on these 2 sets. They looked great edge to edge. Being a little naive about CRT RPTVs, I wanted some answers.


My wife likes it dark, almost no lights, when watching movies. Would a CRT be better then an LCD in this case? DLP is out of the question because of rainbows/fatigue, so it's between LCD and now CRT. My wife likes the LCD because of the wide viewing angle, and I could not gauge the vertical viewing angle. Is the vertical limitation as bad as the horizontal one? I mean do I need to be directly in front of the set (10-12' away) and sitting on my couch to enjoy the set? We have an 'L' configuration with the love seat and couch, with the love seat being opposite the TV. Would the couch then suffer from poor viewing angle? If I stand up in front of my couch, how bad with the fade be?


Are they any other advantages, disadvantages to a CRT other then burn in? I was told CRTs needed to be cleaned or something every year? I would have to relocate my CC speaker and AV equipment, but I know the Panny has a CC shelf. Knowing bulbs need to be replaced every couple of years on an LCD, how does that compare to a CRT? Which would last longer without maintenance? Does one degrade PQ over time?

 

[oxothuk]

CRT has two advantages - cost and black levels. If you really do plan to watch often under very dim conditions, the black level advantage will be noticeable.


For either LCD or CRT, the vertical viewing angle is much narrower than the horizontal viewing angle. So you will notice a much bigger falloff in brightness when you stand up vs. when you move side to side. You generally do need to be sitting unless you are at least 12 feet away. The angles should be a bit better with LCD because of its overall brightness.


My advice would be to draw a room layout and then go look in the store from the same distance and angle as your worst case couch position.


With CRTs you need to adjust the convergence periodically. Most people just use the auto-convergence functions of the newer TVs, while others go to great pains to get it perfect. No need for annual cleaning. As for durability, I wouldn't be too concerned - either a CRT or LCD set will last long past its technological obsolescence.

 

[Kid Red]

Great info thanks. So then, LCDs are brighter with a slightly better horizontal viewing angle and form factors are really the only advantages? While CRTs have the better black level, is it really that noticeable? I have a HD CRT tube now and was always concerned with black level because the wife likes the room dark. How bad would an LCD be in a dark room?

 

[gwsat]

Kid Red -- I agree with oxothuk that a CRT is a great choice if you prefer to watch movies in dim light because the black level of a CRT is in a class by itself. Add to this the fact that CRTs are a better value than LCDs and a far better value than either plasmas or DLPs and it seems like the way to go. There are some drawbacks such as size and weight, convergence issues, the danger of burn in, weakness as a game display, etc. but all HDTV technologies have weaknesses.


I didn't take my own advice on this score -- I bought a DLP -- but I like to watch TV and even movies in a normally lighted room and I had limitations as to the size of TV I could accommodate. These considerations made me eliminate CRTs from my list of possibilities.

 

[Kid Red]

gwsat- I hear ya. I like the Sony 50" and the 55", the Panny C14, and Hitachi is OK and I'm on the fence with the JVC DiLA. But, going CRT would be a lot easier being cheaper, and the black level issue would not be a problem. But my wife thinks the price difference may be worth it to get the LCD. Then I thought about the black level issue but then the other possible downfalls of CRT. What are the convergence issues? I see the JVC has a 81 point manual convergence. Is this a pain to do? Does it happen often? All said and done, what would have the better PQ (not limited to black level)- LCD or CRT? You mentioned gaming, what's the issue there? I currently play PS2 on my CRT tube and have no complaints.


As for weight, the Panny and JVC are around the 170lb mark, lighter then my 36" CRT tube now.

 

[KalEl]

Kid,


I went to the store planning to purchase a RP CRT. I walked out with a RP LCD (Panny LC14).


What changed my mind was the viewing angle. Our setup sounds similar to yours, 'L' configuration with the love seat and couch, plus our kids often watch the TV from the kitchen table, which is at a significant horizontal angle.


Black levels are important to me, and the CRTs do a better job than the LCDs. But, I figured none of that mattered if you couldn't see the screen from the angle you happen to be sitting. I'm amazed at how well I can see our TV from almost any location.


Guess you just gotta figure out which limitations you're most willing to live with. Buy from a store with a good return policy so you can experiment if necessary.


Good luck.

 

[gwsat]

Kid Red -- Convergence is no big deal. I still own and occasionally watch a 40" Pioneer RP CRT, which I bought in 1987. Setting the convergence on it or any other CRT is a fairly straightforward process. The only drawback is that you have to do it at all.


I am not a gamer but I have read posts here by those who are that CRTs are inferior for games. Frankly, I don't know why this would be so.


In normal light, I think that the PQ of a DLP is superior to that of a CRT but HD on either will look wonderful, If you like the PQ of a CRT you are considering buying and you have room for it I wouldn't eliminate it from consideration because a DLP's PQ might be marginally better in normal light.

 

[Kid Red]

KalEl- Funny you mention that, the main reason my wife doesn't like the CRTs is because I don't think we would be able to see it form 'our' kitchen table either. Hmm. So two people that support CRT advantages, but went with LCDs/DLPs.

 

[jdavis37]

Kid,


If you wife is impressed with the LCD sets ( many to choose from and most look good to my eyes though I tend to see the black crush issues.. is why I bought DLP ), then, assuming you also like LCD okay, I would recommend you begin there. Buy from a place with a 30 day return policy and see how the LCD works in your home. If you still like it and your wife does also, it's akeeper. If she decides she doesn't like it, makes it far easier to go with the CRT ( no risk to you this way lol ). Sorry for my apparent sexism but WAF IS important.. there is, after all, more to life than a TV ))) And PS I do clean toilets, know how to cook and actually do it, and gladly give foot massages without being asked ( girlfriend only tho )!

 

[AcuraCL]

If out-of-the-box black level bothers you/wife, you can attempt the filter mod on Panasonics and Sonys (RP-LCD). That significantly improves blacks.


Bright room -- forget RP-CRT. You will grow to hate it if you ever watch during the daytime ... esp. a dark program/movie.


Burnin IS an issue and you do have to be vigilant with RP-CRT.


DILA might be better for blacks but the jury is still out on that. Plus, some of the optics issues of these sets is a REAL concern.

 

[Kid Red]

AcuraCL- We have a CRT tube now, with very controllable room light and know about burn in problems. You think the Sony or Panny would be OK in a dark room watching, say, Underworld? Especially coming from a CRT tube? That's always been my concern about upgrading, is that I will lose my blacks. I installed recessed lights on a dimmer to have that ability to have back lighting, however, the wife mostly turns them all the way down. That's my concern with an LCD as much as I love them.


So it sounds like you would recommend the Panny or Sony over a CRT. I do like the idea of buying and being able to return/trade in for the other option.


jdavis- WAF is very important, but not a deal breaker. I merely asked her opinion, but the electronics and stuff she knows nothing about is mostly my call. I just wanted input from her and was surprised she didn't want to go the cheap CRT route.

 

[Auditor55]

"So it sounds like you would recommend the Panny or Sony over a CRT. I do like the idea of buying and being able to return/trade in for the other option. "


Go check out the Sony's new GW RP CRT vs. Sony's new GW4 LCD's. All I have to say is, if you have the space it would be an easy choice. The Sony CRT kicks serious B-hind.

 

[Kid Red]

auditor55- Do you have a model #. Is there something about these that makes them better?

 

[Tigerriot]

I just bought Sony's new 51" WS655 CRT RPTV. I am very pleased with it.


I went through this whole situation myself. I bought a couple different LCD Projection sets including the best on the market today according to most people. Even the coveted XBR950 LCD Projection from Sony did not offer black levels as good as a CRT RPTV. After viewing an LCD Projection for a while I realized the black levels were too much of a problem for me.



Thats not to say I don't like LCD Projection sets though, because I do. I actually have one in my living room. However, this bigger set i'm talking about was my main home theater tv in the basement. I was so happy with my living room set that I thought another LCD Projection set would be perfect for the basement as well. I was very wrong. In the dark conditions of the basement the black levels of the LCD were bad when trying to watch a movie with dark scenes.



So, the simple story is this. I believe an LCD Projection is the best tv to go with for a bright living room setup. If it's going to be your main tv in a bright room than go with and LCD projection and you'll be happy. Their great for bright rooms and bright material such as sporting events. However, if you are looking for a true movie watching/sports watching tv in a basement go with a CRT RPTV.

 

[Kid Red]

Well we don't have basements in Florida It's for my main TV media/livingroom. It's bright during the day but we have very thick curtains so even during the day we can get it fairly dark, not pitch black because we have a sliding glass door perpendicular to the TV but with those blinds closed it can get dark. At night, of course we can get it pitch black which is I why I installed the pot lights.


So I'm not sure where that leaves me. The room can be bright but the shades can be drawn. The main movie nights, when we really watch TV is kinda dark. However, I don't want to watch 1pm Sunday football in darkness either.

 

[trancer23]

i have a 46 inch CRT RPTV and frequently watch movies in my chair that is 45degrees off center at only 6 feet away. The image is fine. Glare during the day however is horrible as it is accross from a bay window. Movies at night are amazing.

 

[AcuraCL]

I think you need to do a little logic matrix Kid.


Q#1

Which is more important: blacks or daytime viewing? If blacks, are you willing to try the ND filter mod to a RP-LCD? If yes, you might consider the RP-LCD. (There are actual photos showing the black level improvement in a Pan. RP-LCD.) If not, then you want the RP-CRT.


Q#2

Are you willing to watch stretch-o-vision with 4:3 content, not to watch shopping channels or channels showing station logos for any extended time. If not, then RP-LCD is a better choice. If so, RP-CRT is it.


You have to weigh Q#1 against Q#2.

 

[Tigerriot]

Ok, so this is gonna be your living room tv.


Well, I would probably still recommend the CRT RPTV to you. Particularly because you said blacks are a concern to you. If that is the case you are very likely going to be bothered by the black levels of an LCD RPTV.


If you have good curtains I don't think the CRT RPTV is going to cause you problems. Particularly because these newer sets such as the Sony I just bought have a good anti glare screen on them. It goes a good job on it's own. Just don't have light beaming directly towards the tv and you'll be fine.

 

[ADGrant]

Quote:

Originally posted by Kid Red AcuraCL- We have a CRT tube now, with very controllable room light and know about burn in problems.

CRT Direct view or CRT RPTV? The RPTVs are dimmer and more sensitive to burn in.

 

[Kid Red]

Direct view. Ah didn't know RPTV CRTs were worse off then tubes for burn in. I've always wondered why the paranoia about it.


tigerriot- Thanks. I guess I'll have to keep checking them out and weighting the options against cost and pros and cons. Not sure I could deal with the stretch modes tho, didn't think about that.