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I have been reading through the different RP owner threads at AVS and I have to be honest it has scared me. I am definitely in the market for a 70" HDTV because I believe that size is important for getting that close to theater experience in my home. I viewed the 70" JVC HD-ILA at a local store using DVDs and HD satellite feeds and I really liked the picture other than the weaker than CRT blacks but I can live with that for a wide, large screen in a small cabinet. After reading through the JVC owner thread and others, has anybody bought a JVC HD-ILA or other microdisplay that has not been repaired or replaced within the first month or so. It seems that so many people have a problem right out the box or within a few weeks, dead pixels or stuck mirrors, smudges behind the screen, fading LCD panels, entire light engines failing and so on. While I know the technology is continually changing, the base technology of DLP, LCD and LCOS is well over 5 years old. I would think the manufactures would be well past the poor build quality stage of a new technology and now tweaking to get the best picture quality.


I bought my first Magnavox 19" color TV in 1980 and my parents still use it in their bedroom and it has only been repaired once. My 25" JVC from 1987 has only been repaired once and that was because my son watered it and it is still going strong in my bedroom. I have a 52" RCA CRT bought in 1995 that has never been repaired so that is the kind of reliability I am looking for in a TV, especially one that is costing close to $5000. It has taken me several years of saving to get the money to buy a HDTV so I do not want to spend my money and then spend most of my time watching the repair guy. These HDTVs sound less reliable than a boat which in my past experience has been a hole in the water that I have poured money into. Are the DLP, LCD and LCOS technologies really that finicky?


While I am sure I will have new technology envy I expect a TV to be a long term purchase of 10 years or more. Other than bulb changes I expect a purchase at this price point to be reliable for years. Even at 10 years, the TV will cost $500 a year not including bulb changes. That is not an insignificant amount of money for me. At 5 years it would be $1000 a year and adding repair costs to that is not acceptable to me. Adding another $600 for an extended warranty on a product already costing $5000 seems like adding insult to injury. Is there any place that has monitored the reliability of the different HDTV manufacturers over the past 5 years? Thanks.
 

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I recommend an extended warranty, and then you don't have to worry about it for 5 years. My 2-year-old Samsung DLP has worked perfectly so far, but you are correct that there are a lot of threads with defects with all the new technologies (DLP, LCD, and DILA). I bought my DLP at Tweeter and bought a 5-year extended warranty from them. The price is about the same as the price of a buib replacement, so I actually break even if the bulb goes once in 5 years (very likely). I have not seen any data suggesting that one of these technologies is any more reliable than another.
 

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All of the gripes you are seeing arise from the strange internet phenomenon (especially prevalent on AVS) in which unhappy purchasers immediately get on the boards and complain while the happy owners sit and enjoy while never posting about their positive experiences. Thus there are a disproportionate number of unhappy owners.


I've never seen any real numbers indicating that these microdisplay TVs are any less reliable than previous sets or other consumer electronics.


I GUARANTEE that there are going to be some haters on this thread any minute stating how unreliable some product is, just make sure you make them present some hard evidence, not just word of mouth of counting posts.


If you are worried about reliability just buy the 5 year warranty and be done with it, but I doubt you will need it, aside from the bulb replacement which makes it a good deal. Just be certain that your warranty covers bulb replacement, you have to read the warranty, not just what the sales person says. Many DLP warranties exclude the bulb.
 

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I have not seen definitive data to say one technology is more reliable than the other, or even say newer technology is less reliable than older CRT based technology.

And remember, when folks do have problems, if they don't call for service, it is forums like this where they may seek help. So it is difficult to judge reliability on the number of posts.

As suggested, get an extended service plan for some peace of mind. You can save money on a plan if you don't have a display with 'lamps' or just accept the fact, that lamps are a normal part of maintenance, and be willing to pay for those when they do go out.

A factory warranty should cover you for at least a year, and before it expires you can usually still get a deal on an extended plan. That way you have some time to think about it. Good luck with your choice! I know peace of mind is priceless. :)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JFISHER
I have been reading through the different RP owner threads at AVS and I have to be honest it has scared me. I am definitely in the market for a 70" HDTV because I believe that size is important for getting that close to theater experience in my home. I viewed the 70" JVC HD-ILA at a local store using DVDs and HD satellite feeds and I really liked the picture other than the weaker than CRT blacks but I can live with that for a wide, large screen in a small cabinet. After reading through the JVC owner thread and others, has anybody bought a JVC HD-ILA or other microdisplay that has not been repaired or replaced within the first month or so. It seems that so many people have a problem right out the box or within a few weeks, dead pixels or stuck mirrors, smudges behind the screen, fading LCD panels, entire light engines failing and so on. While I know the technology is continually changing, the base technology of DLP, LCD and LCOS is well over 5 years old. I would think the manufactures would be well past the poor build quality stage of a new technology and now tweaking to get the best picture quality.


I bought my first Magnavox 19" color TV in 1980 and my parents still use it in their bedroom and it has only been repaired once. My 25" JVC from 1987 has only been repaired once and that was because my son watered it and it is still going strong in my bedroom. I have a 52" RCA CRT bought in 1995 that has never been repaired so that is the kind of reliability I am looking for in a TV, especially one that is costing close to $5000. It has taken me several years of saving to get the money to buy a HDTV so I do not want to spend my money and then spend most of my time watching the repair guy. These HDTVs sound less reliable than a boat which in my past experience has been a hole in the water that I have poured money into. Are the DLP, LCD and LCOS technologies really that finicky?


While I am sure I will have new technology envy I expect a TV to be a long term purchase of 10 years or more. Other than bulb changes I expect a purchase at this price point to be reliable for years. Even at 10 years, the TV will cost $500 a year not including bulb changes. That is not an insignificant amount of money for me. At 5 years it would be $1000 a year and adding repair costs to that is not acceptable to me. Adding another $600 for an extended warranty on a product already costing $5000 seems like adding insult to injury. Is there any place that has monitored the reliability of the different HDTV manufacturers over the past 5 years? Thanks.
The simple answer is yes. The extent of unreliability varies with the technology.

Obviously DLP will be the least reliable with color wheels spinning and the most mechanical and moving parts, followed by LCOS-Based sets and LCD RPTVs, which rate to be the least troublesome of the group. All have compensating positives and negatives, but if you are buying a microdisplay and are troubled by reliability, especially a DLP, don't go without an extended warranty. simple.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SammiK
The simple answer is yes. The extent of unreliability varies with the technology.

Obviously DLP will be the least reliable with color wheels spinning and the most mechanical and moving parts, followed by LCOS-Based sets and LCD RPTVs, which rate to be the least troublesome of the group. All have compensating positives and negatives, but if you are buying a microdisplay and are troubled by reliability, especially a DLP, don't go without an extended warranty. simple.
Note that these are just opinions without any facts to back them up. As stated several times above, there are no data that any one of these technologies is less reliable than another. Just read the original poster's list of problems with DILAs, and this opinion that DLP is less reliable does not hold up. Just buy whatever looks best to you or best meets your needs, and make sure to get an extended warranty for your own peace of mind.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP
Note that these are just opinions without any facts to back them up. As stated several times above, there are no data that any one of these technologies is less reliable than another. Just read the original poster's list of problems with DILAs, and this opinion that DLP is less reliable does not hold up. Just buy whatever looks best to you or best meets your needs, and make sure to get an extended warranty for your own peace of mind.
I would strongly disagree. Talk to the people who service these TVs and you'll hear the same reliability rankings from all of them. No one disagrees that microdisplays are more unreliable than CRTs and no one who has spoken to service techs disagrees that the order of reliabilty from best to worst is: 1) LCD 2) LCOS 3) DLP.
 

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It probably has more to do with the brand than the technology. Sony LCDs have had problems. JVC DILAs have had major problems. I would agree that Sony LCOS may be more reliable (they seem to have hit a home run with the Qualia, although for $13000). Of course it remains to be seen how their lower priced LCOS sets will do. I would still recommend going with what best meets someone's needs, rather than people's opinions about reliability.
 

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Maybe you should start a poll "who has a microdisplay television that has NOT had a problem?" :) Remember, as other others have stated, this site is a great place to seek help when there is a problem with a television. There are many hard core "do-it your-selfers" that will even install their own color wheels on DLP's. I have seen very few if any threads stating "I have had _______TV for the past ______years and have had no trouble."


I have been fortunate in that I have had a Sammy DLP "with one of those spinning color wheels" that has been working without problem since February 2004. I shared you concerns last year, when the TV was purchased, but have been trouble free. I did buy an extended warranty for piece of mind, and hopefully will never need it.


I have also had a Sony 34 inch widescreen direct view television for 2 years, and no problems there.


To date I have had bad luck with the "old fashion" direct view TV's - #1 turned green after 5 years, and #2 "blew up" after 6 months.


I think your best option is to pick the TV that looks best to your eyes and enjoy it. Good luck with your decision.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SammiK
The simple answer is yes. The extent of unreliability varies with the technology.

Obviously DLP will be the least reliable with color wheels spinning and the most mechanical and moving parts, followed by LCOS-Based sets and LCD RPTVs, which rate to be the least troublesome of the group. All have compensating positives and negatives, but if you are buying a microdisplay and are troubled by reliability, especially a DLP, don't go without an extended warranty. simple.
The largest service center in my area...suburb of Chicago...is were my very close friend has been a service tech with 25 years in the business, he told me that they service more Sony LCD RP products than any other manufacturer. So I would say LCD has the most problems...But he also said DLP products were second on the list...maybe that's why he has a 65" CRT RP. :rolleyes: I have had a DLP for over 2 years now with over 3800 hours without 1 single problem. :)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651
The largest service center in my area...suburb of Chicago...is were my very close friend has been a service tech with 25 years in the business, he told me that they service more Sony LCD RP products than any other manufacturer. So I would say LCD has the most problems...But he also said DLP products were second on the list...maybe that's why he has a 65" CRT RP. :rolleyes: I have had a DLP for over 2 years now with over 3800 hours without 1 single problem. :)
You prove his point. almost 2 of every 5 microdisplays sold are Sony 3LCDs, he should see many, many more of them even if they are ultra-reliable. DLP's are a much, much smaller segment so even noticing DLP's he services are 2nd shows that they are probably the most unreliable (what everyone knows, sort of, anyway). I also have a DLP not quite 2 years old which has never given me a problem, so if someone were to survey the two of us only, DLP would show up as the most reliable microtechnology:)


You will invariably find the same story being told by almost any service center or tech you talk to. also if you talk to Big Box managers or Store Owners, they'll tell you that the percentage of DLP's returned or repaired is much higher than anything else they sell. Don't see why some people here get so confrontational about it. It's like getting PO'd and arguing with someone because they said the average temperature is warmer at the Equator than it is at the North Pole:)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazelle
You prove his point. almost 2 of every 5 microdislays sold are Sony 3LCDs, he should see many, many more of them even if they are ultra-reliable. DLP's are a much, much smaller segment so even noticing DLP's he services are 2nd shows that they are probably the most unreliable (what everyone knows, sort of, anyway). I also have a DLP not quite 2 years old which has never given me a problem, so if someone were to survey the two of us only, DLP would show up as the most reliable microtechnology:)


You will invariably find the same story being told by almost any service center or tech you talk to. I do.
Gazelle I won't argue with you...I just stated what I was told... If I could honestly wait I would look at the JVC HD-70FH96...I need to go bigger because of my room size 20x16...In about 2 weeks I should be getting my HLR6768 1080P and if I feel its inferior as you keep saying, then I have a 30 day window to return...it will cost me shipping :( At this time the only larger set that is avaliable is the Sony Qualia...it would be the Qualia or my Wife...I think i will keep the Wife as I have for 30 years...Wish me luck with the Samsung and be a sport. :)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651
Gazelle I won't argue with you...I just stated what I was told... If I could honestly wait I would look at the JVC HD-70FH96...I need to go bigger because of my room size 20x16...In about 2 weeks I should be getting my HLR6768 1080P and if I feel its inferior as you keep saying, then I have a 30 day window to return...it will cost me shipping :( At this time the only larger set that is avaliable is the Sony Qualia...it would be the Qualia or my Wife...I think i will keep the Wife as I have for 30 years...Wish me luck with the Samsung and be a sport. :)
LOL:) Of course i wish you luck with the 6768! (and with the wife:)).


I didn't mean that the 1080P Samsung is inferior - after all, the only other one out there so far is the Mitsubishi and they certainly appear equal. Certainly one isn't markedly better or worse than the other. It's just that i feel it very well may be inferior to other 1080P Microdisplays coming later this year.

Hopefully it'll work out great for you and give you even more trouble-free hours than your HLN. I'll be looking forward to your critiques once you're set up. And, of course should you not like it, hopefully by then others will be available. I agree that a 20x16 room needs something as big or bigger than this and you'll have plenty of choices in the 70" range in the coming few months. as i said, i hope the Sammie will be great for you and any other choice will be unneccessary:)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazelle
LOL:) Of course i wish you luck with the 6768! (and with the wife:)).


Hopefully it'll work out great for you and give you even more trouble-free hours than your HLN. I'll be looking forward to your critiques once you're set up. And, of course should you not like it, hopefully by then others will be available. I agree that a 20x16 room needs something as big or bigger than this and you'll have plenty of choices in the 70" range in the coming few months. as i said, i hope the Sammie will be great for you and any other choice will be unneccessary:)
And if it sucks...beleive me I will let everyone know. ;)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651
And if it sucks...beleive me I will let everyone know. ;)
I would always expect an honest opinion from an ex-marine. Those are the only opinions worth anything. Looking forward to your thoughts and experiences. I may fool around a bit with a 6178 if i find the time and energy to grab one from a warehouse. Been much too busy lately to post any hands-on thoughts on anything:(
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazelle
You prove his point. almost 2 of every 5 microdisplays sold are Sony 3LCDs, he should see many, many more of them even if they are ultra-reliable. DLP's are a much, much smaller segment so even noticing DLP's he services are 2nd shows that they are probably the most unreliable (what everyone knows, sort of, anyway). I also have a DLP not quite 2 years old which has never given me a problem, so if someone were to survey the two of us only, DLP would show up as the most reliable microtechnology:)


You will invariably find the same story being told by almost any service center or tech you talk to. also if you talk to Big Box managers or Store Owners, they'll tell you that the percentage of DLP's returned or repaired is much higher than anything else they sell. Don't see why some people here get so confrontational about it. It's like getting PO'd and arguing with someone because they said the average temperature is warmer at the Equator than it is at the North Pole:)
According to this TWICE article it has been a closer numbers race then you represent.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA625248.html


Most HDTV's are returned by consumers because SD content looks worse than expected.


(sorry you will need to register to see the numbers)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdmoser
According to this TWICE article it has been a closer numbers race then you represent.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA625248.html


Most HDTV's are returned by consumers because SD content looks worse than expected.


(sorry you will need to register to see the numbers)
Yes, thanks. I had already read this article. It makes a good point: it was remiss of me to neglect to mention, of course, a large reason for a lot of returns are 1st-time HDTV buyers who just can't stand how poorly SD looks on most of these sets. Another interesting fact that is not mentioned in the article is that some sets that don't have great HD PQ, but look passable with SD feeds have very low return rates and better customer satisfaction ratings than better HD sets with poorer SD PQ. Go figure:)
 

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Sd looks just as bad on a small 32" CRT set. It's just harder to see how bad the picture is or with the HD set there is such a huge difference between HD and SD. Of course it doesn't help that alot of people have no idea if they are actually looking at HD or SD.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt
Sd looks just as bad on a small 32" CRET set. It's just harder to see how bad the picture is or with the HD set there is sucha huge difference between HD and SD. Of course it doesn't help that alot of people have no idea if they are actually looking at HD or SD.
Sure. And, of course, bad SD PQ is only magnified on bigger screens.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gazelle
You prove his point. almost 2 of every 5 microdisplays sold are Sony 3LCDs, he should see many, many more of them even if they are ultra-reliable. DLP's are a much, much smaller segment so even noticing DLP's he services are 2nd shows that they are probably the most unreliable (what everyone knows, sort of, anyway). I also have a DLP not quite 2 years old which has never given me a problem, so if someone were to survey the two of us only, DLP would show up as the most reliable microtechnology:)


You will invariably find the same story being told by almost any service center or tech you talk to. also if you talk to Big Box managers or Store Owners, they'll tell you that the percentage of DLP's returned or repaired is much higher than anything else they sell. Don't see why some people here get so confrontational about it. It's like getting PO'd and arguing with someone because they said the average temperature is warmer at the Equator than it is at the North Pole:)
JFisher: this is just the type of post that I am talking about. "almost 2 of every 5 microdisplays sold are Sony 3LCDs"...okay...yeah right this is not true and if it is I would like to see the proof...we will not since it does not exist. "much smaller segment so even noticing DLP's he services are 2nd shows that they are probably the most unreliable (what everyone knows, sort of, anyway). I also have a DLP not quite 2 years old which has never given me a problem, so if someone were to survey the two of us only, DLP would show up as the most reliable microtechnology". More random statements with no proof...notice that he is just stating generalities as fact without ANY real facts. "being told by almost any service center or tech you talk to. also if you talk to Big Box managers or Store Owners"...PLEASE don't tell me that you guys buy the old "I talk to anonymous experts who say BLANK". This is the worst and least reliable "information" on AVS. Do not accept this type of evidence, it is worthless without the actual person who stated it, not just "I heard from some local person". Like I said, there is a lot of bad and worthless information that people on AVS spew, but even the use of the most common sense will allow you to disregard it.


By the way, I recently spoke to the local techs at my nearby Best Buy and Circuit City...they all said that clearly HDTV sucks and that people should just stick to SD via composite inputs. ;)
 
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