AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 404 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
So, I just got a new Harman Kardon AVR-247 and used the EZSet EQ to determine the size of my speakers. Here are my speakers:

Polk Rti70's in the front
Polk CS1 center
Polk R15's in the rear


It determined that the Rti70's and the CS1 are "Large" speakers and the R15s are "Small". Does that sound correct? I'm fairly certain that the Rti's should be "Large" since they handle low frequencies effeciently, but I was not sure about my CS1 center being "Large". It doesn't really seem to have much bass response.


Anyway, just by reading through some forums, I've gathered that you shouldn't always trust the automatic setup of the receiver, so I thought I would ask, especially on the CS1.


Thanks in advance...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,691 Posts
If you have a sub, the common advice is to set all your speakers to "small". Do you have a sub? If not, the EZSet probably made the right choices.


-Max
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
Yes, I have a sub (12 inch Infinity Perfect, so it is plenty strong). So, should I set the Rti70's to Large or Small? I feel like I'd be wasting potential if I set them to small, but maybe not?


So if I am setting all of my speakers to small, what should I set the crossover freq to be for each one with my setup?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,564 Posts
The -3 dB point of the RTi70's according to the Polk website, is 40 Hz. If you set them to "Large" they will be sent a full-range signal. Since they can't reproduce the

Also remember that removing the bass from the mains will remove it from the main amps. This will give the amps more headroom so they can play louder and/or with less distortion.


The final argument for the "Small" setting is that the speaker positions for best imaging and soundstage are rarely ever the same places as the best place for bass response. Send the bass to the sub and then place the sub where it integrates best with the room and the listening position.


Actually, these are all really good arguments for saving some money and buying bookshelf speakers in the first place, but that's a whole differnt discussion.



Good luck.


Craig
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,671 Posts



True true
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,121 Posts
Set all your speakers to Small. For all the reasons Craig said above.


You are not wasting potential because you are redirecting bass to the appropriate speaker than can actually handle it, and thus you are hearing MORE information.


Some receivers can be made to set the crossover for the rear and fronts independently. If so, set the fronts to something like 40 or 60, and the rears to 60-80, but if not, then set them all to about 80Hz as a start, and try 60
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,246 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/0


If you set them to "Large" they will be sent a full-range signal. Since they can't reproduce the

Craig

"gone forever, never to be heard."



...Angelo
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #10

Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive /forum/post/0


Set all your speakers to Small. For all the reasons Craig said above.


You are not wasting potential because you are redirecting bass to the appropriate speaker than can actually handle it, and thus you are hearing MORE information.


Some receivers can be made to set the crossover for the rear and fronts independently. If so, set the fronts to something like 40 or 60, and the rears to 60-80, but if not, then set them all to about 80Hz as a start, and try 60

I can set them independently. I currently have them all set to "Small", with the center and rear cutoff at 80, and the fronts cutoff at 60.


I cannot hear a difference if I set the rears/center and fronts to 60/40 respectively. Should I do that instead just out of principle?


Also, since my receiver is filtering out the frequencies, should I have my sub crossover set to 60 or 80 Hz as well, or just leave it all the way up at 200 Hz?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
44 Posts
You should leave the crossover on your sub all the way up. As far as the small vs large debate, some people like to let the low end response of their main speakers roll off naturally. You should try out the large setting with some familiar music and then compare it to the small setting and see which you prefer.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
5,900 Posts
Craig said it best.


Another point is unless your fronts go JUST as low as your sub, running them "large" will yield a loss of low bass. If you overlay a speaker with flat 40-120 Hz response on top of a speaker with flat 20-120 Hz response, and calibrate the level, there will be lower 20-40 Hz response. If your goal is more bass without considering quality or extension, and if you think it sounds better, run your fronts "large." I've never heard it sound better than running the fronts "small" with ample subwoofage, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5 Posts
I have a similar receiver to yours (HK AVR340). I have "smaller" fronts than you do (JBL bookshelf with one 8" woofer), and I have my fronts set to "Large". Don't forget that you can manually go into the setup and have the lows go to BOTH the fronts AND the sub. That is actually an option. IMHO, having all the bass go to the sub is okay for movies but sounds un-natural for music, (though I think this applies to me because I have a ported sub). If you have the bass sent to the mains as well as the sub then the sub will support any shortcomings of your mains, and at least for me I think this sound better. However... I have a JBL center with dual 5 1/4" drivers, which I would think are pretty substantial compared to all those cube speakers sold in HTIB systems, so I initially wanted to set my center to "Large" as well, (against the auto settings with the mic). Well, turns out the if you read the manual closely, it says that having the center set to large will prevent ANY bass in the center channel from going to the sub. So now my center is at "small". One final thought, the HK's are able to memorize these settings for independent inputs, so you can set it a certain way for movies ("DVD" input), and then a different way for music ("CD" input). My problem is that my CD player IS my DVD player.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #14
So I've read through some forums here and over at Audioholics, and I have noticed that many people recommend setting the crossover frequency to at least 10Hz above the lowest frequency that your speaker can reproduce.


My question is this: are they talking about the absolute lowest frequency that it can reproduce (for the Rti70's, it is 28Hz), or the lower 3dB point (for the Rti70's, it is 40Hz). So basically, if I follow what they said, should I be setting the crossover frequency to ~38Hz or more, or ~50Hz or more?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
12,564 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbaldus /forum/post/0


So I've read through some forums here and over at Audioholics, and I have noticed that many people recommend setting the crossover frequency to at least 10Hz above the lowest frequency that your speaker can reproduce.


My question is this: are they talking about the absolute lowest frequency that it can reproduce (for the Rti70's, it is 28Hz), or the lower 3dB point (for the Rti70's, it is 40Hz). So basically, if I follow what they said, should I be setting the crossover frequency to ~38Hz or more, or ~50Hz or more?

10 Hz above the -3 dB point is the *minimum* you should go. The better advice is an octave above the -3 dB point. For your mains, that would be 80 Hz.


Craig
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,121 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/0


10 Hz above the -3 dB point is the *minimum* you should go. The better advice is an octave above the -3 dB point. For your mains, that would be 80 Hz.


Craig

Craig is right. You want a bit of overlap for the best seamless blending of your sub to the mains. My 60Hz answer in my previous was too low for your satellites 80Hz is most likely going to give you the better blending. I've gotten away with setting my crossover exactly at the -3dB point because I was able to calibrate my response perfectly using a SMS-1. But in general, you should opt for a higher cutoff rather than force it to be too low.


Remember, don't think of it as "losing potential", you are simply optimizing the bass blending across your speakers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #17

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/0


10 Hz above the -3 dB point is the *minimum* you should go. The better advice is an octave above the -3 dB point. For your mains, that would be 80 Hz.


Craig

Really, an entire octave above the -3dB point? So, for my center speaker, which has a -3dB point of 65Hz, I should be setting it to 130Hz? Or should I only apply that analogy to the mains?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,121 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbaldus /forum/post/0


Really, an entire octave above the -3dB point? So, for my center speaker, which has a -3dB point of 65Hz, I should be setting it to 130Hz? Or should I only apply that analogy to the mains?

I think he was referring to your satellites? I think 80Hz for your center is a fine starting point.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
51 Posts
Discussion Starter #19

Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive /forum/post/0


I think he was referring to your satellites? I think 80Hz for your center is a fine starting point.

I don't have any satellites (check out my original post). My mains are Rti70s (big towers) and my center is a CS1 (dual 5 1/4" woofers). I was wondering if setting the crossover frequency to be an octave above the -3dB point was just for the mains or if it applied to the center as well for the best blending. With my HK, I am able to set the crossover freq for the mains, surrounds, and center separately.


Thanks for your input!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,121 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbaldus /forum/post/0


I don't have any satellites (check out my original post).

I used the wrong term, I meant "rears".
 
1 - 20 of 404 Posts
Top