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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've been reading articles lately about how you can almost never have too much power when feeding a speaker, and the huge amount of extra power that's required just to turn up the volume audibly. I've never been truly blown away by my system, even when I turn it up loud (I really want to approximate the theatrical sound, but not quite reference) Something seems to be missing, and maybe power is the issue?


I'm feeding 130wpc from a Yamaha RXV1700 receiver to:


Two Paradigm Studio 60's fronts (max input power 150wpc)


CC590 Center (I think the max input power is 150 as well, somewhere around there)


And four ADP590 surrounds (max 130wpc)



I sit about 7 feet from them, and I'm using a powered sub for bass duties. I'd appreciate the help.
 

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I had the Yamaha 663 and the 3900 and moving to separates (all Emotiva amps) subjectively increased the headroom, dynamics, control, and bass for me. Since I have moved to external amps I would never go back.
 

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130w should be fine, but 7 channels might be a problem. Try runnin just the two fronts and see if the quality of sound goes up. If so, you may need an external amp. The inexpensive but effective way would be an emotiva 3-channel, an continue the surround from the receiver.


Look also at sub and sub integration, but I don't know in what way the sound is off for you
 

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Based on specs I'd say you aren't - rated at 130, weighs 38 lbs, probably getting at least 80 watts..


Is it volume you are missing? Then electronics may help. If it's something else I suspect room acoustics, sub, or maybe you don't like Paradigm.


Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
The sub is fine. No issue there.


So to get this straight, lack of power is not necessarily the issue even though I'm giving the fronts 20 watts less than the max recommended?


Also, I had no idea that the amount of speakers I'm running in total would impact the power that a particular channel is getting? Am I not getting 130 per channel no matter what?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebEffect /forum/post/19576643


The sub is fine. No issue there.


So to get this straight, lack of power is not necessarily the issue even though I'm giving the fronts 20 watts less than the max recommended?


Also, I had no idea that the amount of speakers I'm running in total would impact the power that a particular channel is getting? Am I not getting 130 per channel no matter what?

You may never actually put more than 20 or 30 watts into the speakers, depending on your listening levels. The more power you apply to a speaker the louder it gets. From this, we can deduce that if you're not playing just as loud as the speaker will go every single second (and no movie stays at full volume all the time) you are not always giving the speakers all the power available in the amp. The question then becomes whether you have enough power to achieve the average levels you want, plus headroom for dynamics. Moreover, 20 watts less, in the context of your receiver's rated power, is not a decible of loudness.


Most receivers will not put out full rated power into all channels at the same time. You have to dig around for independent tests (usually in reviews) to see how a particular receiver acts when faced with equal power demands on all channels simulteneously. WHich may not occur ever in a movie . . .
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebEffect /forum/post/19576886


Well, my listening level is usually around -22 below reference.


How much louder would I have to go before I need more power? -15? -5?

How efficient are your speakers? How many times one meter do you sit away from them? In an anechoic setting, IIRC, every doubling of distance (efficientcy usually measured at one meter) cuts 6 dB from the sound level that reaches your ears. Inside typical rooms, might be less loss, might not be.


The real question is, do you hear distortion on loud passages?


In my system, I figure I might need 100-200 watts to hit reference in my main speakers. I listen at -20 most of the time, so I'm using one or 2 watts.


Every 10 dB is 10 times the power. Every 3 dB is double the power, all assuming your speakers can get that loud without compression (which I assume my Paradigm Studio 10s could not do even with the help of the sub).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WebEffect /forum/post/19576459


I'm feeding 130wpc from a Yamaha RXV1700 receiver to:

One thing that you should understand is that most receivers, including yours, are not really capable of achieving their specified power with all channels driven. I am nearly certain that your receiver cannot supply seven channels of 130w power simultaneously. Look for a review with bench measurements to see what it can really supply. All the amp channels pull from the same power supply. Each channel could likely supply 130w driven individually. It is even common to be able to best the spec with two channels driven. But driving five or seven channels simultaneously often yields real output that is far below spec, e.g. 60w instead of 130w.


However, having said that, it probably isn't a realistic scenario that you would need the receiver to supply seven channels of 130w all at the same time. So maybe it doesn't matter that the spec is at best misleading (and at worst, pure fiction).


I don't think that -22 is very loud (though I can't really be certain from that spec alone), so you might not need additional amplification.


I know you said that the sub is fine, but it is really easy to underestimate how much sub it takes to keep up with the rest of the speakers. How did you decide that you have "enough sub"?


-Max
 

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It's just not as simple as it should be. I know just enough to know how little I know.


For example: I know that all of your amps draw from a single power supply, and that will limit the amp.


I also know that speakers don't offer a constant impedance, and that many AVRs will restrict power at lower impediences to prevent overheating; which is unfortunate because at fewer ohms, it take *more* current to keep the magnets energized.


I also know that the amount of capacitance in the amp will affect the ability to deal with sudden "peak power", and that caps are one area AVRs go light.


I've run a pair of 60v3's off a 90WPC Integra as 2-channel and was very happy with the sound. Because of this: I believe your AVR can power the 60s.


If that belief is right (that the AVR is enough for the 60s), then you can determine if the problem is with total load simply by listening to something in stereo and seeing if the problem persists.


If the problem continues than either my assumption is wrong, or your problem is not total power.
 
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