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Kind of... The color saturation is well studied.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helmholtz–Kohlrausch_effect

But there's something about the narrow band high color yield of rgb led/laser, and maybe the lack of any color wheel, color filter, or layer of liquid crystal between the light source and your eyes, though persons using 3chip dlp don't find this to be the case. But it appears brighter then it measures. Especially low APL scenes with the dimming, I'd never know that I was looking at 5fl.



A mastering monitor and the reference display in a screening room are very different.

The Eclipse is without any doubt the reference for HDR video. It's a real treat just to read about
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/86-ultra-hi-end-ht-gear-20-000/3018138-christie-eclipse-projector-5.html#post57023378


Not necessarily ;] HDR was developed for high dynamic range displays. The Eclipse has the high dynamic range, in addition it has the color gamut. And again the pixel performance of DLP is superior to OLED.
I think most of us use the Eclipse is the some of dreams, way to expensive to ever own and way too big and heavy to accommodate a traditional home cinema room. With this in mind I think it's fair to say that in the domestic market HDR was chiefly designed with TVs in mind instead of projector, I think we can all be in agreement that no normal projector can reach the 1000 never mind 4000 nits required to fully capitalise on HDR which is why I say it's better suited to TV at present.

The Eclipse is a no holds barred 6 chip projector with massive laser arrays to illuminate very large screens. RGB laser DLP projectors that can provide 100% bt2020 coverage are just now getting below $10,000, and it's reasonable to discuss a 2chip DLP projector would be similarly priced. The technology exists, it just hasn't been built yet.
I think until DSP (normal ones) offer decent levels of contrast they will not be considered by those dedicated to the hobby and treat their room to achieve the best possible image.
 
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Compared to 1080p HDTVs, you can watch the more advanced 4K ULTA HD TVs from a smaller distance without straining your eyes or seeing pixels. The ideal TV viewing distance 4K Ultra HD TVs is between about 1 and 1.5 times the diagonal width of the screen, which works out to the following distances:
A 40’’ TV– You should sit between 3.5 and 5 feet away from the screen.
A 43’’ TV– You should sit between 3.5 and 5.5 feet away from the screen.
A 50’’ TV– You should sit between 4 and 6.5 feet away from the screen.
A 55’’ TV– You should sit between 4.5 and 7 feet away from the screen.
A 60’’ TV– You should sit between 5 and 7.5 feet away from the screen.
A 65’’ TV– You should sit between 5.5 and 8 feet away from the screen.
A 70’’ TV– You should sit between 6 and 9 feet away from the screen.
A 75’’ TV– You should sit between 6.5 and 9.5 feet away from the screen.
An 80’’ TV– You should sit between 6.5 and 10 feet away from the screen.
An 85’’ TV– You should sit between 7 and 10.5 feet away from the screen.
 

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Best of both worlds...

Well, I think our setup gives me the best of both worlds... First, I want both the huge picture that only a projector can give you (for any reasonable cost...), and I want that amazing clarity and blacks that a top-end TV gives you... So, I have a 7.1 setup in my living room. Just behind our coffee table I have the best 50” set I could find and we sit 5.5 feet from it. This set is mounted to a TV lift which lets me drop it to the floor... On a credenza I built behind the couch sits my 4k projector that shoots to the wall 15 feet away... I can fire up the projector for a great 140” picture (or less...) and get really immersed in a football game or movie that my 50” TV could never provide... SIZE matters !!! So, we enjoy the best of both worlds happily ever after... And talking to the projector expert at Best Buy, he indicated that he does the same thing noting that using your projector for all your viewing will kill it in a third of the time that it should... He stresses that your projector should be for “event TV watching” ... Like the Superbowl or the Grammies... or Star Wars, etc... Try this, you will love it.....
 

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agreed. i do this now in my dedicated ht! no compromises :)


Well, I think our setup gives me the best of both worlds... First, I want both the huge picture that only a projector can give you (for any reasonable cost...), and I want that amazing clarity and blacks that a top-end TV gives you... So, I have a 7.1 setup in my living room. Just behind our coffee table I have the best 50” set I could find and we sit 5.5 feet from it. This set is mounted to a TV lift which lets me drop it to the floor... On a credenza I built behind the couch sits my 4k projector that shoots to the wall 15 feet away... I can fire up the projector for a great 140” picture (or less...) and get really immersed in a football game or movie that my 50” TV could never provide... SIZE matters !!! So, we enjoy the best of both worlds happily ever after... And talking to the projector expert at Best Buy, he indicated that he does the same thing noting that using your projector for all your viewing will kill it in a third of the time that it should... He stresses that your projector should be for “event TV watching” ... Like the Superbowl or the Grammies... or Star Wars, etc... Try this, you will love it.....
 

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In my opinion three factors work in favour of using a larger screen.

1. Eyes provide reference as to true image size and shape that it is a flat image. Through eye focus distance accommodation and binocular disparity. The greater the viewing distance the less strong those visual cues are and the more dependent your brain is on visual cues in the image. Making it easier for a larger screen at a greater distance to create the illusion of being a hole in the wall through which you are seeing reality rather than simply a nice display showing a pretty image.
2. The amount of the viewer's field of view the image occupies effects immersion.
3. Films are shot to be shown on large screens at distance. The field of view in the image and visual cues in the image probably work best when displayed that way as far as providing an immersive experience.

So the question to me becomes if 77" is large enough. The answer I think is no.
To achieve a 45 degree horizontal field of view you would need to be 6'9" away from the screen, and for a 50 degree field of view 6' away from the screen. Too close.

Likewise I would not choose to be 15' from a 120" projector screen. That gives a 32.4 degree horizontal field of view. Too small a field of view. But with a 120" screen you could sit 10'6" away for a 45 degree field of view. Now with a 130", 140",150"+ you are even more able to sit far enough away from the screen while achieving a large enough field of view.

And rather than being more expensive than a large flat panel TV some people use projectors because they are cheaper.

I also disagree on calibration the difference adjustments make to the image is massive.

Far from being dead I think led and laser will bring new life to the projector market. As they enable instant on/off and use of projectors with no concern for light source life. While as far as image quality goes DLP has the potential to improve if Christie's sequential chip design or Barco's light steering or Sim2's overlaid images eventually make it into affordable consumer products.
I didn’t look in here for a couple days and find a 6 page thread of interest to read. I started reading and got the feeling I have read this before and I’m watching a rerun of MASH for the fiftieth time and didn’t get past the first page. So I stopped here at the first post that said what I would say on the subject and quoted it as it is worth everyone reading again.

At home I simulate IMAX immersion in my modest HT and of course I don’t have a 6 story tall IMAX screen. I was once again belittled the other day for referring to it as IMAX at home being told I will never have IMAX at home unless I build a 6 story tall screen and that is of course true. But I pointed out also we will never have a true Scope at home experience without building a 4 story tall scope screen, so the assertion of the one calling me out was true but he also was guilty of dreaming he had something he really didn’t have.

So it becomes an issue of close enough or good enough for the girls we go with as they used to say. Our eyes are set just so far apart, we have binocular vision that overlaps and composes a blended image. Our eyes focus and send a signal to the brain as to a relative distance to the object we are looking at, and we also take in visual tells as to how objects we know the size of get smaller the greater the distance. In short we have depth perception. If scale and angles were all that was required commercial movie theaters as well as home theaters could be built like airplanes where the screen is attached to the seat in front of you. Watching a 12” tall monitor from 12” away is in no way the same as watching a 6 story IMAX screen from 60’ away. Yes both will tell us the story but visually they are a different experience. IMAX even realized that when they started their new IMAX 1.89 theaters some call LieMAX because the screens are not much taller than the local cinema screens, although they do have greater more controlled immersion.

So the question really is 100% regardless of black levels and all the other great things flat panels can do now with the one major exception of size / immersion and at what point that size provides a close enough experience for a reasonably small group of people that it is a theater experience and not a TV experience?

I am forced because of a small room size and a liking for IMAX content as well as others movie formats shown quite immersive, the largest 16:9 image I can have is 110” with a seating distance of 1.5 x the screen height. The immersion is correct but in my perfect world I would want a larger screen size with the same immersion. I always say 110” is about the bare minimum size and 120”-130” would be much more convincing of a movie theater experience let alone an IMAX experience. So in my case it is just good enough and in a really pitch black mode I’m happy with the results.

Because I have a variable size presentation setup and the 110” is my max in my media room, I do often zoom down as small as 80” for TV watching with some lights in the room. It is great for a TV experience watching regular TV with some lights on, and I don’t change my seating distance. It is not a motion picture experience but it is still nice.

Now on to reading the remaining 120 some posts. :D
 

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^What you are referring to is scale and whilst mathematically it's true when you either upscale or downscale there is a definite difference in the whole experience. Watching a true IMAX screen isn't the same thing as watching the equivalent ratio in your home because you have lost the sheer scale of the image in front of you, visually both might fill your visual area the same but the experience is different.

Well the same is true with your TV vs large Projector screen despite keeping the same viewing distance from the equivalent screen size you don't get the same sense of scale of a 100" plus screen from a 50" TV.

I full acknowledge my OLED can produce a better image but how can I explain it, I use the TV for general viewing where I might also be checking my phone or chatting to the wife but for serious viewing when I want my total concentration focused I will always watch it from the projector.
 

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Compared to 1080p HDTVs, you can watch the more advanced 4K ULTA HD TVs from a smaller distance without straining your eyes or seeing pixels. The ideal TV viewing distance 4K Ultra HD TVs is between about 1 and 1.5 times the diagonal width of the screen, which works out to the following distances:
A 40’’ TV– You should sit between 3.5 and 5 feet away from the screen.
...
So says flat panel TV retailer who even cite another flat panel TV retailer. Just so you know you really need that shiny new UHDTV so you can safely sit closer.

For my 130" 1080p according to them I should sit between 16'3" and 27'1" away from the screen.
Maybe they should sell opera glasses as a TV/projector accessory?
 

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Projectors are not dead, atleast in my house! they are alive and strong and get used the most! You simply cant get the same immersiveness that you get out of a large acoustic transparent screen and a projector. If you can get it, Ive never experienced it!
 
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you are suppose to be 1.5 - 2.0 times diagonal back from the screen to keep your eyes from being fatigued.
this ratio is fixed, being that we are humans. the technology may say bigger is available, but it is not better.
quality is better, deeper blacks, brighter screens, more colors, more pixels to make cleaner lines,
but 1.5 - 2.0 times diagonal back is fixed.

1.5 times back for a 77" screen is 9.7 ft.
1.5 times back for a 120" screen is 15.0 ft.

you also need room behind for good speaker placement, so add 3ft plus.
120" projector requires 18ft deep room.
the ******* who wants 200" needs 300/12=25 +3 = 28ft deep +++.

i'm currently trying to buy a home with about 18 of depth.
that requires, 18-3=15*12/1.5=120 in screen max.
maybe i want to be a little further back than 1.5 let's say 1.7 , and i want to be 3 ft from the speaker that are 2 ft from the rear wall.
18-(3+2)=13*12/1.7= 91" screen. that's what i think that room supports.
can i get an ultra high end LCD, close to that, in 8k resolution, for $10000 ... maybe.
that's the goal.
Disagree with most of these facts.
120" projector can be done in a 14 foot deep room.
My 135" projected image is done with 13.5 feet throw.
1.5 times diagonal from the screen you won't be able to benefit from 4K resolution, period. Those numbers are just far too old. If you're not sitting within 1 screen width from the screen forget 4K resolution. And you can see from that how worthless 8K will be.
 

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So says flat panel TV retailer who even cite another flat panel TV retailer. Just so you know you really need that shiny new UHDTV so you can safely sit closer.

For my 130" 1080p according to them I should sit between 16'3" and 27'1" away from the screen.
Maybe they should sell opera glasses as a TV/projector accessory?
My screen is also 130 inches and I sit 13 feet from it. Looks fantastic!
 

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Samsung’s modular TV is a game changer as it addresses flexibility in screen size, ability to bring them through standard size doors regardless of the”screen” size, etc. Once the price of that technology comes down (substantially) projectors will be for a very small, niche market. Like vinyl record turn tables there will Be people that want them but the size of the market, and therefore product choices, will be very limited. But that’s 10 years away yet.
More than price has to happen, before these replace front projectors. I have seen what is available and it is not ready for prime time in home theater and may never be ready. At the viewing distance of the typical home theater, you can see the dimple in the middle of each panel and the reflection off the surface was pretty bad. Also hard to get each panel perfectly smooth at the transition point to another panel. This becomes less of an issue at longer viewing distances, but that takes it out of the home cinema arena. For commercial use, different matter. These could replace projectors on the commercial side.
 

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Compared to 1080p HDTVs, you can watch the more advanced 4K ULTA HD TVs from a smaller distance without straining your eyes or seeing pixels. The ideal TV viewing distance 4K Ultra HD TVs is between about 1 and 1.5 times the diagonal width of the screen, which works out to the following distances:

A 55’’ TV– You should sit between 4.5 and 7 feet away from the screen.
I guess I'm sitting too close for work!

My brother questioned how close I was sitting to the TV in a family chat a couple of months ago.

However, my job sent out a work from home guideline of sitting 2-3ft from the screen the same month.
 

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resolution is not a factor anymore for most TV uses

Disagree with most of these facts.
120" projector can be done in a 14 foot deep room.
My 135" projected image is done with 13.5 feet throw.
1.5 times diagonal from the screen you won't be able to benefit from 4K resolution, period. Those numbers are just far too old. If you're not sitting within 1 screen width from the screen forget 4K resolution. And you can see from that how worthless 8K will be.
yeh, you can project anything you want, doesn't change your eyes will be fatigued if watching many movies.
so let's say 4k and 8k doesn't matter. it doesn't. not the pixels.
but the technology of 4k improves the color space and HDR is a major improvement.
some tech advances are important, other not. yes 8k pixels, very unlikely.
now for computer monitors or other things ok. bigger is sometimes better, other applications not.

how many megapixels do cameras need? for a 4x7 8x10 print only a few.
for blowing it up to 40x20, closer to 20megapixels.
it's all a matter of application.

using a 120" projector in a 14 foot deep room, is insane. in 5-10 years your eyes will tell you the same.
 

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Ok I blew threw the other 120 posts quicker than I thought once I eliminated the music videos and the repeat posts back and forth dealing with personal preferences dealing with seating distance.

What I didn’t address in my above posts is the scaling of audio to match the video both in terms of pure size not immersive size. A big screen IMO needs a big sound. There is a difference when watching say Top Gun on a massive screen with high immersion and a smaller screen with the same immersion as to how the sound effects me. If I put Top Gun on my lap top and sit 2x the screen height from the screen but play the audio at theater levels from my theater speakers with my subs pounding the room, it is not at all convincing to me that the sound is appropriate for the image. Likewise watching it on a 75” TV with the sound level matching a theater experience would seem odd. I often see flat panel HT shown with a 75” TV and then rows of massive speakers all around it and I wonder if the viewer wouldn’t notice this.

As to the OPs old thread about VR replacing front projection I think that thread had more merit even though I would have to say that wont happen any time soon as well. At least with VR each eye is seeing a different image so there is the potential for 100% tricking the eyes and brain it is truly seeing something far away and huge. I don’t think though most people want the experience with something over their eyes and the lack of social connection to the other viewers. Lets not forget motion pictures and huge screens have always been intended to be a group activity. Unfortunately the bad group activity as of late is what drove me away from public theaters. I like to laugh and get scared with a group, but I don’t care to listen and watch the jerk in front of me on his phone the whole movie. So like scaling the screen size I also scale the viewers I watch with and put up with the family members checking their phones during the movie.

The concept of watching the movie action thru and open window was brought up, and I will add with IMAX movies and IMAX immersion the open window can become me not even safely looking out an open window but me being part of the action. I have never seen a flat panel display as beautiful as they can be as eye candy, that I didn’t know where the screens glass surface was. It is at best a window I’m looking into at the action. Only front projection off a reference screen surface with unity like dispersion of light is an image I feel is a true open window where I lose track of it being a surface and the 3D cinematography with its depth of field takes over and I feel like I’m actually there. Unfortunately these attributes are not things that get numeric values put on like CR etc.

HDR is another can of worms that gets a lot of attention when ever flat panels are compared to projection. This whole lumen thing is IMO very misleading as our eyes adjust to such a large extent based on the brightness not only of the image but also the rest of the light in the room. It is so much comparing apples to oranges it really isn’t something I want to try and compare. All I know is my eyes are not ready for a true HDR image in a pitch black room taking up 100% of my field of view. :eek:
 

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Sometimes I watch those survivalist shows where they eat squirrels and mice, and quite frankly it just would not be the same on a smaller TV.
You almost feel like you are camping with them, you just don't get that on a TV unless you sit so close that it's awkward.
 

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I for one am ready for ultra short throw projectors to get better & better.

They’re so much more convienant...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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yeh, you can project anything you want, doesn't change your eyes will be fatigued if watching many movies.
...

using a 120" projector in a 14 foot deep room, is insane. in 5-10 years your eyes will tell you the same.
According to who what source are you relying on for that fact?

How can say sitting 11' away from a 80" image be better for your eyes than sitting 11' away from a 120" image. It's like say large print is worse for your eyes than small print.
And as the projector is likely to be less bright and uses reflected light its like saying reading a book is worse for your eyes than reading on a tablet.
 
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Careful with the arguing silly semantics or Ill start bombing goregrind next and id prefer to not get banned
ԅ(≖_≖ԅ)
 

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^What you are referring to is scale and whilst mathematically it's true when you either upscale or downscale there is a definite difference in the whole experience. Watching a true IMAX screen isn't the same thing as watching the equivalent ratio in your home because you have lost the sheer scale of the image in front of you, visually both might fill your visual area the same but the experience is different.

Well the same is true with your TV vs large Projector screen despite keeping the same viewing distance from the equivalent screen size you don't get the same sense of scale of a 100" plus screen from a 50" TV.

I full acknowledge my OLED can produce a better image but how can I explain it, I use the TV for general viewing where I might also be checking my phone or chatting to the wife but for serious viewing when I want my total concentration focused I will always watch it from the projector.
And also, you may be able to sit 5' from a 50" screen but you can't fit the same number of people in that space the same as you can 10' from a 100'" screen
 

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yeh, you can project anything you want, doesn't change your eyes will be fatigued if watching many movies.

using a 120" projector in a 14 foot deep room, is insane. in 5-10 years your eyes will tell you the same.
So you think watching a 120" projector from 14 feet is more fatiguing to your eyes than staring at a 1000 nit 77" OLED from 7ft?
 
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