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Discussion Starter #1
I've been considering moving to a JVC (after unsuccessfully searching for a Joe Kane 1080P DLP to replace my Joe kane 720p DLP), but recently discovered that Curt Palme has a good stock of G90's for very reasonable prices. That was always my dream projector but was way out of reach. They're under $5K with brand new tubes now.


So - I'm posting this here instead of the CRT forum because:


1 - It's rather dead

2 - It's biased.


Am I nuts to be considering this? Take out of the equation the installation/calibration/maintenance/parts-availability issues of a CRT.


Just considering shadow detail, motion resolution and overall image quality - at 1080P with a 120" screen, would you take a well-set-up G90 over the latest (2014) crop of D-ILA's with >100:000:1 native contrast ratios?


Part of it, I admit, is nostalgia. I owned a 7" CRT with bad tubes when I was young and broke, and I still remember its liquid-smooth image with fondness.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisreeves  /t/1526153/are-sony-g90s-barco-cine...t-cave-with-120-max-screen-size#post_24576336


I've been considering moving to a JVC (after unsuccessfully searching for a Joe Kane 1080P DLP to replace my Joe kane 720p DLP), but recently discovered that Curt Palme has a good stock of G90's for very reasonable prices. That was always my dream projector but was way out of reach. They're under $5K with brand new tubes now.


So - I'm posting this here instead of the CRT forum because:


1 - It's rather dead

2 - It's biased.


Am I nuts to be considering this? Take out of the equation the installation/calibration/maintenance/parts-availability issues of a CRT.


Just considering shadow detail, motion resolution and overall image quality - at 1080P with a 120" screen, would you take a well-set-up G90 over the latest (2014) crop of D-ILA's with >100:000:1 native contrast ratios?


Part of it, I admit, is nostalgia. I owned a 7" CRT with bad tubes when I was young and broke, and I still remember its liquid-smooth image with fondness.

I would take the JVC over the CRT. The CRT is too much work, heat, size and noise.
 

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CRT is amazing.


But, like classic cars. I would rather know someone with one than owning one myself.


I did have a g70 and put in new sony tubes purchased directly from sony but that was some time ago now.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Yeah if I go with a G90 I will definitely factor in a couple thousand more to pay for ceiling installation and a quality, anal-retentive calibration and focus. And then budget for a yearly touch-up. Being in L.A. I figure there must be qualified techs to handle servicing. If this was going in a cabin in the mountains somewhere I wouldn't be considering it.
 

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I think the two biggest exciting features of CRT is motion resolution (it's best you can get today) and absolute contrast and black level performance (with some gamma tweaking). Though there are some pretty big hurdles already mentioned by Mike. I haven't owned one but having to manually adjust the convergence fairly often seems like a task, they're not very bright which will almost necessitate a fairly high gain screen is you want a 120" image, they have very low ANSI contrast (around 150:1), and they're loud and bulky.


I'm sure image quality is amazing at the right screen size. I'm sure you'll enjoy the image as long as you're okay with all the work that's involved setting it up correctly. I've seen quite a few G90s sell on ebay for around $1500 that were in near perfect shape and with new tubes. I wouldn't pay much more for it unless Curt Palme offers a warranty on the units he sells.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Science Sales 5  /t/1526153/are-sony-g90s-barco-cine...t-cave-with-120-max-screen-size#post_24576398


I would take the JVC over the CRT. The CRT is too much work, heat, size and noise.

but picture quality? I'm curious as well, not that id ever deal with the hassles of installing one, I'm just curious if there are still some pros to the crt's
 

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It's been forever since I've seen a good CRT projector, but I've followed many discussions about them (in the CRT forums and elsewhere), vs digitals, year after year as digital took over.


As I understand, yeah CRTs have the potential to go darkest in the black levels, but simply having a CRT doesn't guarantee this - it takes some serious tweaking to get it there, and this is not without sacrifice as I understand it. (And even then, do the CRTs actually achieve perfect "light off" performance in the pure blacks?).


If I had to predict I'd think it would work out like this: If you compared an excellent CRT projector vs a new JVC, you might get the black levels of the CRT lower, but overall the JVC's black levels would still look excellent and the JVC's image would look significantly punchier, with an overall more vibrant and life-like contrast and clarity. And of course the JVC will allow significantly larger screen sizes in terms of light output.
 

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The image is sweet in a CRT projector properly set up. Thing about CRT is you have to ask yourself what is your time worth? The ROI is horrible in terms of your time with a CRT projector. Incredibly easy to change a lamp instead of replace a tube . . .
 

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I recall all of the work to maintain my CRT RPTV back in the day (convergence, geometry, focus, etc.). I really don't miss those days and imagine it's certainly not any easier with CRT FP.


But, yes, it had the best blacks I have ever seen on anything although the lack of higher ansi-contrast as well as slightly softer image became apparent to other display technologies I eventually upgraded to (SXRD, plasma, etc.).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisreeves  /t/1526153/are-sony-g90s-barco-cine...t-cave-with-120-max-screen-size#post_24576414


Yeah if I go with a G90 I will definitely factor in a couple thousand more to pay for ceiling installation and a quality, anal-retentive calibration and focus. And then budget for a yearly touch-up. Being in L.A. I figure there must be qualified techs to handle servicing. If this was going in a cabin in the mountains somewhere I wouldn't be considering it.

I guess you could pay someone a thousand dollars or something but honestly if you aren't going to tune it yourself then CRT FP is likely not for you. You can and need to give it a lot of attention. Doesn't matter how much you pay for initial setup... it's like having a kid.
 

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I have owned and set up many CRT's. The last being a NEC10pg with new 9 inch tubes. The image is phenomenal on these units, but the issue you will run into is the age. All the caps are drying up, the resistors are getting old, and new tubes and new parts are hard to find.

If you spend the time hanging it properly, the geometry is a just walking through a menu and you could easily do the stig and flare yourself. (just don't put both hands in there at the same time.)

If you set it up properly, you will get very little convergence drift, and only have to touch it up every 6 months or so. Do the color at the same time as the tubes age differntly.

I'm sticking with JVC for now.


Gary
 

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I went from Dwin 700 to Sony G90 to JVC RS-20 to Sony vw1000. It was an upgrade each time. Very little downside each time. The Dwin was quieter than the G90. G90 was more lumens and more resolution. JVC was better converged, blacks and motion handling not quite as good - but it was still an upgrade IMO. The Sony 1000 (now 1100 with the upgrade) is not even a contest. Motion handling and on/off black is minimally worse than the G90 (I don't notice), but overall picture quality of the new digitals is far better than CRT. G90 costs less and is a good value compared to the old days. Having said that, CRT would be a reasonable option if only considering spending only a few thousand and if absolute black level and motion handling are the primary consideration. The analogy to a vintage automobile is a good one.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by R Harkness  /t/1526153/are-sony-g90s-barco-cine...t-cave-with-120-max-screen-size#post_24576585


It's been forever since I've seen a good CRT projector, but I've followed many discussions about them (in the CRT forums and elsewhere), vs digitals, year after year as digital took over.


As I understand, yeah CRTs have the potential to go darkest in the black levels, but simply having a CRT doesn't guarantee this - it takes some serious tweaking to get it there, and this is not without sacrifice as I understand it. (And even then, do the CRTs actually achieve perfect "light off" performance in the pure blacks?).


If I had to predict I'd think it would work out like this: If you compared an excellent CRT projector vs a new JVC, you might get the black levels of the CRT lower, but overall the JVC's black levels would still look excellent and the JVC's image would look significantly punchier, with an overall more vibrant and life-like contrast and clarity. And of course the JVC will allow significantly larger screen sizes in terms of light output.

CRTs can achieve full lights off black levels. I gave my G90 to a friend and I don't miss it. CRTs for most are just too hard to properly maintain and digitals IMO are sharper, punchier and most now have good to excellent black levels. Not having a 250 pound behemoth hanging over your head or floor mounted taking up half the room is also a relief. What about 3D and CRT? Digital is just so much easier with no real downside anymore and probably a lot of upside.
 

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I had a custom hush box that was as heavy as my G70 ... it was all secure but never stopped being a bit scary... Think car suspended over your kids heads.


And, if you don't have kids ... then, maybe CRT is for you after all. They can soak all of your time and life force.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deja Vu  /t/1526153/are-sony-g90s-barco-cine...t-cave-with-120-max-screen-size#post_24585371


CRTs can achieve full lights off black levels. I gave my G90 to a friend and I don't miss it. CRTs for most are just too hard to properly maintain and digitals IMO are sharper, punchier and most now have good to excellent black levels. Not having a 250 pound behemoth hanging over your head or floor mounted taking up half the room is also a relief. What about 3D and CRT? Digital is just so much easier with no real downside anymore and probably a lot of upside.

Wow, that is interesting. Is that recent? I remember you were running a dual pj system. IIRC you had an Epson. Are you still using the Epson or something else?


I have two G90s and two G70s. I will probably install the G90 on the floor for the foreseeable future, when I get my place done. Supposedly JVC is coming out with a laser light engine this fall. That is what I will probably replace the G90 with.


As for sticking with CRT, I think you would have to love the hobby at this point. If I didn't have the CRTs already, then I would probably have pulled the trigger on the JVCs by now. I actually did a couple of years ago. I told Mike at Cedia to put me down on the pre-order, but my situation changed and I gave the slot to my best friend. He loves it, but his friends and family get more use out of it. Kind of funny that when people come to visit that they want to stay in and watch movies on his pj.
 

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The good thing about CRT today is.


Get multiple units like a G90 to have spares for the future.


Before spending 7-8K for a digital you could get 3-4 G90's.
 

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This a tough one, but as someone who just dumped their G70 after 11 wonderful years for a JVC 4810, I can attest that it was a step up in all the areas that matter. Even black levels appear to be the same (it passes the hand between eyes and screen on a black screen test. i.e. can't see the outline of my hand.).


I would never go back to a CRT, and I know how to do all the setup and tweaking required, my time is just to scarce now to waste dozens of hours per year on CRT maintenance.
 
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