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Well I think we all know it's the image retention problems that plague this years models.

A Tv is to be watched and enjoyed like any other expensive home apliance.

If you have to run slides and baby sit the bloody thing because of IR day and night

then it's not doing what the unsuspecting consumer wants.

A warning lable would help but no, lets just sweep the IR issue under the carpet.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22267257


Is Panasonic denying this?
Had a Panasonic rep explain to me that 2000hrs, yes that is correct "2000hrs" of break in are needed to lessen or eliminate IR or burn-in issues on the display. I asked don't you mean 200hrs of break-in? Nope 2000hrs I explained that if this is a persistent issues with this years display it would put it way out of our 30-90 day return. It was then explained that IR/burn-in aren't covered under any manufacturer warranty.
 

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I had an ST50, didn't really notice IR unless I examined it closely. Didn't bother me at all. Returned it due to flicker in 50hz and 24p.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by samwbourne  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22267350


I had an ST50, didn't really notice IR unless I examined it closely. Didn't bother me at all. Returned it due to flicker in 50hz and 24p.

European model? Have read a number of posts that Pans have had problems with Europe's 50hz standard - but thought one of the linked reviews (probably on a British site) mentioned that the 2012s had improved in that area - ??
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RicFlair  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22267254


HOW BAD IS THE IR FOLKS?

I'm seeing this now all over ????

Our 60ST50 was prone to Quick Onset / Medium- to Long-Duration IR up until ABOUT 400 hours of usage. We noted the problem at around the 250 hour mark, but that might have simply been because that is when we stopped being Extra Careful with the set.


Since passing the 400 hour mark (and, again, that is an Approximate number, not some "magical" mark!), the set has become noticeably LESS susceptible to Quick Onset IR, and the retention time has shortened considerably. (Brief IR is pretty much a given on all of the plasma sets we've had experience with - but such "Short Duration IR" is hardly a problem worth worrying about.)

Am still taking reasonable precautions, but not Extraordinary ones, and - at least as of now - do not consider IR to be a problem with this particular panel - it seems to be getting closer and closer to our two older Pan plasmas in this area as the hours of usage add up.


To be fair, we do NOT game on it....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dierkdr  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22267686


European model? Have read a number of posts that Pans have had problems with Europe's 50hz standard - but thought one of the linked reviews (probably on a British site) mentioned that the 2012s had improved in that area - ??

I think that is a different issue. Mine was an Australian model but I'm 99% sure this is a global problem. Both 50hz and 24p flickered pretty obviously. Apparently Australian models run 24p at 96hz so I would guess the VT50 would be the same. Some people are less sensitive than others though so you'll have to see for yourself whether you can detect it or not.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by samwbourne  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22267832


I think that is a different issue. Mine was an Australian model but I'm 99% sure this is a global problem. Both 50hz and 24p flickered pretty obviously. Apparently Australian models run 24p at 96hz so I would guess the VT50 would be the same. Some people are less sensitive than others though so you'll have to see for yourself whether you can detect it or not.

I'm pretty sure that european model works [email protected] Hz, not 48Hz. Isn't this stupid that there are a lot of differently speced tvs over different countries? America, Europe, GB, Australia etc. Some have more options in menu then others, how weird is that. They should do just one version with more option to choose from and choose what you like.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr.Shankenstein  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22267311


Had a Panasonic rep explain to me that 2000hrs, yes that is correct "2000hrs" of break in are needed to lessen or eliminate IR or burn-in issues on the display. I asked don't you mean 200hrs of break-in? Nope 2000hrs I explained that if this is a persistent issues with this years display it would put it way out of our 30-90 day return.....

That rep is not knowledgeable about his product. I've picked the brains of like three different Panasonic reps at stores over the years and all of them were sorely lacking in technical knowledge not just about their TVs, but Plasma technology in general. They're not qualified to discuss tech, just marketing.


FWIW, i have not been getting any IR on my GT50 over the past month of ownership despite watching mostly news channels and Speed channel, same as on my other Plasmas.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22271367


That rep is not knowledgeable about his product. I've picked the brains of like three different Panasonic reps at stores over the years and all of them were sorely lacking in technical knowledge not just about their TVs, but Plasma technology in general. They're not qualified to discuss tech, just marketing.

FWIW, i have not been getting any IR on my GT50 over the past month of ownership despite watching mostly news channels and Speed channel, same as on my other Plasmas.

I will agee with Randy on this and take the word of ISF calibrators as to how many hours of break in is needed.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by majki84  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22271077


I'm pretty sure that european model works [email protected] Hz, not 48Hz. Isn't this stupid that there are a lot of differently speced tvs over different countries? America, Europe, GB, Australia etc. Some have more options in menu then others, how weird is that. They should do just one version with more option to choose from and choose what you like.

I have read the same thing, you're right it is frustrating, however in terms of 24p playback it makes little difference as 96hz still flickers. It's not obvious, but once started noticing it in scenes with a lot of grey I couldn't stop seeing it. 60hz is fine though.
 

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I've had two 60ST50's and neither of them had IR issues.


Was considering the E6500 but obviously went with the ST50 because of the superior PQ. Very happy with my choice.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22271517


I will agee with Randy on this and take the word of ISF calibrators as to how many hours of break in is needed.


Anyone selling an expensive service like calibrating plasmas is going to claim

a low number because they want that new plasma owner ASAP.

Given the vast amount of heat generated by a new plasma there is no practical way those prospers

can completey age and reach their normal room temperature in 100 to 200 hours.

500 to 1000 hours is more realistic.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22272803


Anyone selling an expensive service like calibrating plasmas is going to claim

a low number because they want that new plasma owner ASAP.

Given the vast amount of heat generated by a new plasma there is no practical way those prospers

can completey age and reach their normal room temperature in 100 to 200 hours.

500 to 1000 hours is more realistic.

That is a very broad statement. I'll also bet that you have absolutely NO evidence to prove it true.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by majki84  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22271077


I'm pretty sure that european model works [email protected] Hz, not 48Hz. Isn't this stupid that there are a lot of differently speced tvs over different countries? America, Europe, GB, Australia etc. Some have more options in menu then others, how weird is that. They should do just one version with more option to choose from and choose what you like.

whats the need for 96hz, or eveh 48hz for that matter - its a bit weird


I have a PF11 Panasonic, and it outputs 24hz at 24hz - and I can't spot any flicker at all, and I used to be very sensitive to it on computer monitors


interestingly on that model there was a difference too, the American version output 24hz at 48hz


just wondered what the advantage of doubling, or quadrupling the frames is ?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonyfan  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22272803


Anyone selling an expensive service like calibrating plasmas is going to claim

a low number because they want that new plasma owner ASAP.

Given the vast amount of heat generated by a new plasma there is no practical way those prospers

can completey age and reach their normal room temperature in 100 to 200 hours.

500 to 1000 hours is more realistic.

No, this is unrelated to IR, and your statement about temperature suggests you don't really understand what's happening (as I'm sure most people wouldn't
). Sounds like you're saying the TV run The time required to age the phosphors to a point where IR becomes substantially reduced will probably depend on the chemical composition of the phosphors and design of the panel, among other things I'm sure. I don't think there is any hard evidence of exactly how much time is required, and that's probably because there's some variability to it (plus the fact that it would be very difficult to collect such data from a large sample set considering all of the variables involved).


Calibrators recommend a "break in" for the benefit of their customers. I believe this break in period is typically 100-200 hours because during this time the phosphors are still "settling in", meaning there is a lot of drift in their color reproduction. There is no point in paying for a calibration until after this time has passed. A "broken in" set will hold calibration quite nicely for at least 300 hours (even 500 isn't too bad) based on data I've collected with a colorimeter on my D7000. I'm up to 2000 hours now and have only calibrated a few times.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvidHiker  /t/1422659/are-there-any-panny-st50-returners-out-there-who-went-sammy-6500#post_22273090


No, this is unrelated to IR, and your statement about temperature suggests you don't really understand what's happening (as I'm sure most people wouldn't
). Sounds like you're saying the TV run The time required to age the phosphors to a point where IR becomes substantially reduced will probably depend on the chemical composition of the phosphors and design of the panel, among other things I'm sure. I don't think there is any hard evidence of exactly how much time is required, and that's probably because there's some variability to it (plus the fact that it would be very difficult to collect such data from a large sample set considering all of the variables involved).


Calibrators recommend a "break in" for the benefit of their customers. I believe this break in period is typically 100-200 hours because during this time the phosphors are still "settling in", meaning there is a lot of drift in their color reproduction. There is no point in paying for a calibration until after this time has passed. A "broken in" set will hold calibration quite nicely for at least 300 hours (even 500 isn't too bad) based on data I've collected with a colorimeter on my D7000. I'm up to 2000 hours now and have only calibrated a few times.

I never said anything about IR and IR has nothing to do with my post.

go back, re-read and try again.



"Calibrators recommend a "break in" for the benefit of their customers"


Yea right and I have bridge to sell you in Brooklyn, give me a fuggin break.
 

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AvidHiker is correct and that all Plasmas need to be aged at least 100-150 hours before it gets calibrated because the phosphors change the most during this time. If you calibrate any plasma out of the box, it will drift out of accuracy quickly. This has been shown year after year with all models with measuring equipment (colorimeters or spectroradiometers).
 
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