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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was blown away when I heard the definitive technology supercube at BB last week, I love how the sounds seemed to come from all sides of the cube. Are there any cheaper subs that compare? I'd like to eventually try a two sub solution.
 

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Which supercube did you hear? And unless there's a new version out the one you heard only has one driver and two passive radiators.


The supercubes rely on eq for the low end and a bit of augmentation with the passive radiators. Their standard recipe is to put a small driver in a tiny box and feed it tons of power then eq (boost) the crap out of the low end. This leads to HEAVY distortion they're hoping no one notices.


Most ID companies will have a better sub for cheaper. Check hsu, svs, rythmik, emotiva, and epik. Between those you will find something to your liking.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash /forum/post/0


Which supercube did you hear? And unless there's a new version out the one you heard only has one driver and two passive radiators.


The supercubes rely on eq for the low end and a bit of augmentation with the passive radiators. Their standard recipe is to put a small driver in a tiny box and feed it tons of power then eq (boost) the crap out of the low end. This leads to HEAVY distortion they're hoping no one notices.


Most ID companies will have a better sub for cheaper. Check hsu, svs, rythmik, emotiva, and epik. Between those you will find something to your liking.

Also add Outlaw to that list ...
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
What about velodyne impact 10? Would two of those be a good thing or the premier acoustic pa120?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Let me explain. The best buy Rep recommended definitive technology subwoofers and particularly the two smaller ones because as he demonstrated the explotions in the movie being played sounded like one big explosion on the larger sub but when played using the two smaller supercubes you could hear several individual explosions. The supercube 2000 sounded the best of the three he played. My system will have the onkyo tx-nr709, already in house. And two Martin Logan motion 12's. One preordered mistakenly instead of two so I'll have to find another one or hope someone cancels one. The sub will sit on carpet

We play 80% movies and maybe 20% music, and might go with two subs eventually.
 

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Are you looking for a small sub?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I think I'd like to eventually get two small subs that cost between $200-$400 each or no more than $800 for the pair but would prefer buying one at a time unless it was a great buy. I want a powered sub that you can hear the many individual explosions of a movie if the movie has them, that doesn't distort or cut out like my 70 Watt Yamaha does

Like I said it seemed to me like the supercube 2000 sent out sound from all over instead of one particular area but I might've been wrong. Naturally I want the best sound for the lowest price.
 

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Bass below ~80 hz is omnidirectional. Properly set up with your mains with an 80 hz or below crossover and you shouldn't be able to tell where the sub is. It should blend with the mains.


I've never liked the supercubes and their over the top extension claims. This is a 7.5" driver with 650 watts (order of fried voice coil coming right up!) That claims 20 hz extension. It just won't do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm a real novice here, what do you recommended?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaavenger /forum/post/20869144


Let me explain. The best buy Rep recommended definitive technology subwoofers and particularly the two smaller ones because as he demonstrated the explotions in the movie being played sounded like one big explosion on the larger sub but when played using the two smaller supercubes you could hear several individual explosions. The supercube 2000 sounded the best of the three he played. My system will have the onkyo tx-nr709, already in house. And two Martin Logan motion 12's. One preordered mistakenly instead of two so I'll have to find another one or hope someone cancels one. The sub will sit on carpet

We play 80% movies and maybe 20% music, and might go with two subs eventually.

The demo at BB was carefully set-up so the Def Tech sounded best. Typically, this is done because of the profit margin on certain brands and models.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlaavenger /forum/post/0


I'm a real novice here, what do you recommended?

The top of my list that's just a little over your budget would probably be the Epik Legend. Dual 12" drivers in a small sealed box. Won't be as small as that kleenex box def tech makes but is still pretty small. Also have a look at any of the lower priced subs from elemental designs as well as the outlaw lfm-1 compact.
 

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I bought an even smaller sub. A mirage with three 6" woofers and 600 watts of power. Only one woofer is active. Everyone said it would sound like crap and couldn't come close in performance to others.


I wanted to get the best sub possible that was very small and it only cost $200, so I got it.


It sounds pretty damn good. I'm not saying it's better than Hsu etc..., but it sounds better than many people would expect. I have an infinity sub that's the size of a mini fridge and the Mirage can't produce at loud volume like the inifinity, but at lower volumes there's not a huge difference. If I analyzed the sound to death, I could probably nick pick at it, but if I'm watching and following a movie and not focused on low frequency sounds, it's fine.

Quote:
The demo at BB was carefully set-up so the Def Tech sounded best. Typically, this is done because of the profit margin on certain brands and models.

Seriously, do you think Best Buy employees are smart enough to do this? Where I live, they can barely get things working, much less optimize anything.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy /forum/post/20870171


The demo at BB was carefully set-up so the Def Tech sounded best. Typically, this is done because of the profit margin on certain brands and models.

Every Best Buy is set up the same, Def Techs go in Studio rooms if they have a Magnolia. Why WOULDN'T you se up a Def Tech (any sub or speaker) to sound the best. BB is non-commission.


I realize that many forum members have a fine ear but why all the bashing?


Most importantly the OP did say, hey I liked this sub (DefTech SC 2k) what would compare that may be less? Also stating that he would like a 2 sub solution, and that the subs should be small.


I happen to like supercubes too, I don't know any great small subs and was hoping a real recommendation would be given in this thread.
 
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Whether it was set up one way or the other on purpose is a moot point. Your experience with the different explosion sounds likely had more to do with placement and how they were reacting in the space. Changing sub position a matter of inches in my room can make the differences you noted. Or moving from seat to seat can have the effect too.


It is super difficult to evaluate a sub at a place like BB. I don't think any more helpful than buying on specs and rep alone from an ID company.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidawgz /forum/post/0



Every Best Buy is set up the same, Def Techs go in Studio rooms if they have a Magnolia. Why WOULDN'T you se up a Def Tech (any sub or speaker) to sound the best. BB is non-commission.


I realize that many forum members have a fine ear but why all the bashing?


Most importantly the OP did say, hey I liked this sub (DefTech SC 2k) what would compare that may be less? Also stating that he would like a 2 sub solution, and that the subs should be small.


I happen to like supercubes too, I don't know any great small subs and was hoping a real recommendation would be given in this thread.

Let me first say I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just stating fact. The reason you don't know of any great small sub is simply physics. A sub needs to move air. For this to happen you need bigger drivers. A tweeter can reproduce 20 hz, you just can't hear it because not enough cone area is there to make the sound audible. A 6" driver also is not big enough to do this at low frequencies. The passive radiators do little for the sound. All it does is essentially mix the good from a sealed sub (small enclosure) and the good from a ported sub (tuning the enclosure lower). My guess is at most your mirage is tuned to around 30 hz but will claim it will do lower. The def tech may be tuned a bit lower but I can promise it won't do the 20 hz it claims. Or let me rephrase that, it won't do the 20 hz it claims at the same level or even close than at 50 hz.
 

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To be fair, in comparison to the def tech with a 7.5" driver and the mirage with a 6" the jl with a 13" driver is not a small sub. The jl has enough cone to reproduce down pretty low but is still eq'd to boost up the low end to compensate for its small enclosure.


The sd of a 6" driver is very small. It would take nearly 5 of the 6" drivers to equal the area of 1 13".
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidawgz /forum/post/20870416


Every Best Buy is set up the same, Def Techs go in Studio rooms if they have a Magnolia. Why WOULDN'T you se up a Def Tech (any sub or speaker) to sound the best. BB is non-commission.


I realize that many forum members have a fine ear but why all the bashing?


Most importantly the OP did say, hey I liked this sub (DefTech SC 2k) what would compare that may be less? Also stating that he would like a 2 sub solution, and that the subs should be small.


I happen to like supercubes too, I don't know any great small subs and was hoping a real recommendation would be given in this thread.

Def Tech does by far the most advertising in Sound&Vision of any brand of any type of audio component.


Any while technically BB employees don't work on commission, there are kick-backs called spiffs, which are rampant in AV sales of heavily promted items.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash /forum/post/20870508


Let me first say I'm not trying to give you a hard time, just stating fact. The reason you don't know of any great small sub is simply physics. A sub needs to move air. For this to happen you need bigger drivers. A tweeter can reproduce 20 hz, you just can't hear it because not enough cone area is there to make the sound audible. A 6" driver also is not big enough to do this at low frequencies. The passive radiators do little for the sound. All it does is essentially mix the good from a sealed sub (small enclosure) and the good from a ported sub (tuning the enclosure lower). My guess is at most your mirage is tuned to around 30 hz but will claim it will do lower. The def tech may be tuned a bit lower but I can promise it won't do the 20 hz it claims. Or let me rephrase that, it won't do the 20 hz it claims at the same level or even close than at 50 hz.

now I've learned something from you, and I didn't take that as a hard time.

What is the smallest sub that you have respect for though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy /forum/post/20871360


Def Tech does by far the most advertising in Sound&Vision of any brand of any type of audio component.


Any while technically BB employees don't work on commission, there are kick-backs called spiffs, which are rampant in AV sales of heavily promted items.

My buddy works there, and this is pure speculation, and untrue. B&W are the most heavily marketed (in the BB stores). Theres no special kickback for any item, and all audio there is good margin for the store. You would expect this with any items that last you 20+ years though, right?
 

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Deftech does spend quite a bit of coin it seems on marketing, which would lead a consumer such as myself to speculate that an extra bit of my coin going to purchase their subwoofer would be funding that cause. I believe that going with an online vendor can cut out that cost a bit more and your money goes towards the gear. That said, a large company such as deftech buys drivers/amps etc... most likely in a huge quantity and probably gets a killer deal on them, whereas the online companies perhaps are smaller and have to pay more for the same specimen of parts.


Those two points should wash a little bit... but the value will tilt towards the ID companies with very little overhead.


It sounds to me from reading between the lines that you should go with a pair of sealed subwoofers. I'd look into emotiva, elemental designs, CHT has a dual 10"er, and epik subwoofers. If you get anything from one of these companies in the sealed variety with whatever price range you desire, I believe you will be a bit better off than going with a supercube.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by skidawgz /forum/post/0



now I've learned something from you, and I didn't take that as a hard time.

What is the smallest sub that you have respect for though?

Like I said, its all about moving air (displacement). To displace air you need cone area and also excursion. There are huge pro audio drivers who have powerful motors that will get extremely loud but won't get deep. You want as much cone area and as much excursion as you can get with a subwoofer if your goals are getting loud AND low. The rule is for subwoofers you get loud, low (extension), and small enclosure...but you can only pick two. You can tweak with eq like boosting the low end but there are tradeoffs. Boost the eq on the low end, where the most is being asked of the sub, and you increase distortion, power consumption, and possibility of damaging your sub.


If you are going for a single sub and don't have much money going on driver size alone I would say a 12" minimum. This is a very broad statement but just going on the spec of driver size that's what I would start with. The epik legend I mentioned has dual 12" drivers and a decent size amp, but its in a small enclosure. If the drivers have the motor behind it this might not be as big of a deal, but more than likely it will be boosted like the rest. I chose that one for the OP because its $500 and has as much cone area possible while still being a small(ish) sub.


I'm a diy guy who has built quite a few subs for cars and homes but I'm a function over form guy when it comes to audio. I'll take a butt ugly speaker/subwoofer if it sounds good.
 
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