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Are two 12'' subwoofers overkill? or Should I go with one 12'' or two 10''?

3060 Views 51 Replies 17 Participants Last post by Tim Diebert, Jul 1, 2021

japhx

Discussion Starter · Jun 29, 2021 (Edited)

Hi All,

The title says it all. I just bought a condo - small townhome (2 floors - 1050 sq ft - the floorplan on the first floor is open & rectangular shape, with the living room connects to the kitchen). I wanted to set up my first 5.2.4. My question is:

Are two 12'' subwoofers overkill? or Should I go with one 12'' or two 10''?

Also, my budget is < $1,500. Do you have any recommendations?

Thank you so much for helping a newbie here. Really appreciate it!

1 - 20 of 52 Posts

badtlc

· #2 · Jun 29, 2021

There is no such thing as overkill. You can turn any amount of subs down to the levels you desire.

EDIT: For $1,500 starting with dual Monolith 10", dual monolith 12", Dual SVS PB-1000 pro or dual HSU VTF2 would be good starting points. Starting with SVS (free returns) might be the best options so you can get an idea of how much bass you want.

Reactions: 5

eljaycanuck

· #3 · Jun 29, 2021

I agree that dual 12" isn't overkill in 1,050 sq.ft., but how good the soundproofing between units is may determine whether it's too much for your next-door neighbour.

Reactions: 4

RayGuy

· #4 · Jun 29, 2021

Having more than one sub will improve the overall frequency response in the room. So, if you have disparate seating, or want to listen to music from the kitchen and dining rooms, then two subs makes sense. If the usage is only for a small seating area, then one sub will do.

That said, integrating two subs into a room is often a bit time-consuming and can be frustrating, especially if you do not have a mechanism to test the frequency response. In addition, your receiver needs to process the subs separately (some just run a "Y" connector internally, despite having two sub out jacks on the back). Physical positioning is the key to good bass in the room, Once you get one "right" then getting the second one to integrate can be difficult. Having a lot of placement options will improve the chances of getting a good result.

Reactions: 1

Garet Jax

· #5 · Jun 29, 2021

badtlc said:
There is no such thing as overkill. You can turn any amount of subs down to the levels you desire.

This.

At $1500, you're sort of in the middle. For ~$1800 you can get 2 of HSU top subs. For a little more than $950, you can get one. If I were you, I would add $300 to your budget or spend less than $1000. Either way for your budget, I get one or more HSU subs.

Reactions: 2

Kini62

· #6 · Jun 29, 2021

If you have the space for a pair of ported subs that would be the way to go. A pair of SVS PB1000Pros for $1100 would be great in that space.

Reactions: 1

japhx

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jun 29, 2021 (Edited)

badtlc said:
There is no such thing as overkill. You can turn any amount of subs down to the levels you desire.

EDIT: For $1,500 starting with dual Monolith 10", dual monolith 12", Dual SVS PB-1000 pro or dual HSU VTF2 would be good starting points. Starting with SVS (free returns) might be the best options so you can get an idea of how much bass you want.

Thank you, I was just afraid my new neighbors wouldn't be so thrilled when I pump out those bass haha! But I think I will probably go with a dual 12'' then. I heard good things about HSU VTF2 - which seems to be rated higher than the SVS models below 3000. However this is Out of stock, so I might pass on this.

What do you think about SVS 2000 Pro and the Rythmik LV12F? Are these worth the upgrades?

I heard that SVS has a one year trade up program - so should I just go with the 1000 Pro now and consider later whether I have a higher need?

Thank you!

japhx

Discussion Starter · #8 · Jun 29, 2021

eljaycanuck said:
I agree that dual 12" isn't overkill in 1,050 sq.ft., but how good the soundproofing between units is may determine whether it's too much for your next-door neighbour.

Yes totally, that's what I am afraid lol. But at least I will no longer have upstair or downstair neighbor, which would make this impossible

Garet Jax

· #9 · Jun 29, 2021

japhx said:
Thank you, I was just afraid my new neighbors wouldn't be so thrilled when I bump out those bass haha! But I think I will probably go with a dual 12'' then. I heard good things about HSU VTF2 - which seems to be rated higher than the SVS models below 3000. However this is Out of stock, so I might pass on this.

What do you think about SVS 2000 Pro and the Rythmik LV12F? Are these worth the upgrades?

I heard that SVS has a one year trade up program - so should I just go with the 1000 Pro now and consider later whether I have a higher need?

Thank you!

My advice generally is to stay away from SVS. They are a marketing machine - they have nice products, but they cost more than they should. Rythmik, HSU, Monoprice and PSA are who I recommend. They generally have offerings in all price ranges (except for the least expensive)

Reactions: 2

japhx

Discussion Starter · #10 · Jun 29, 2021

RayGuy said:
Having more than one sub will improve the overall frequency response in the room. So, if you have disparate seating, or want to listen to music from the kitchen and dining rooms, then two subs makes sense. If the usage is only for a small seating area, then one sub will do.

That said, integrating two subs into a room is often a bit time-consuming and can be frustrating, especially if you do not have a mechanism to test the frequency response. In addition, your receiver needs to process the subs separately (some just run a "Y" connector internally, despite having two sub out jacks on the back). Physical positioning is the key to good bass in the room, Once you get one "right" then getting the second one to integrate can be difficult. Having a lot of placement options will improve the chances of getting a good result.

Ah yes, I have seen some long instructions regarding the placement of subwoofer, I will reserve this topic for after I make the decision on what sub to buy

But I am curious, since I will have 2 subwoofer, does the placement matter as much? Can I just be lazy and put it in the front on 2 sides next to the TV stand? Also, if this is an ok solution, should I put the subs inside or outside of the front speakers? (I am using Denon X3600H by the way)

japhx

Discussion Starter · #11 · Jun 29, 2021

Garet Jax said:
This.

At $1500, you're sort of in the middle. For ~$1800 you can get 2 of HSU top subs. For a little more than $950, you can get one. If I were you, I would add $300 to your budget or spend less than $1000. Either way for your budget, I get one or more HSU subs.

Got ya. So you would recommend getting 2 of the VTF-15H MK2? These are 15'', I am afraid they are going to be overkill and taking up all the spaces. Plus, they seem to be out of stock for the Satin Black version, and frankly it seems everything else on HSU is also out of stock. Not sure how I can even get these if I wanted to?

RayGuy

· #12 · Jun 29, 2021

japhx said:
Ah yes, I have seen some long instructions regarding the placement of subwoofer, I will reserve this topic for after I make the decision on what sub to buy

But I am curious, since I will have 2 subwoofer, does the placement matter as much? Can I just be lazy and put it in the front on 2 sides next to the TV stand? Also, if this is an ok solution, should I put the subs inside or outside of the front speakers? (I am using Denon X3600H by the way)

You might get lucky and you might not. Every room is different. Here are a few ideas that may work right out of the chute:

Dual Subwoofer Placement for Your Home

Reactions: 1

badtlc

· #13 · Jun 29, 2021

japhx said:
Thank you, I was just afraid my new neighbors wouldn't be so thrilled when I bump out those bass haha! But I think I will probably go with a dual 12'' then. I heard good things about HSU VTF2 - which seems to be rated higher than the SVS models below 3000. However this is Out of stock, so I might pass on this.

The VTF2 and PB-1000 pro are the same level of sub. Hardly any difference between the two. The PB-2000 pro is a definite step up from a VTF2 or PB-1000 pro.

Reactions: 1

derekmoore

· #14 · Jun 29, 2021

japhx said:
Ah yes, I have seen some long instructions regarding the placement of subwoofer, I will reserve this topic for after I make the decision on what sub to buy

But I am curious, since I will have 2 subwoofer, does the placement matter as much? Can I just be lazy and put it in the front on 2 sides next to the TV stand? Also, if this is an ok solution, should I put the subs inside or outside of the front speakers? (I am using Denon X3600H by the way)

You can be lazy about it, but you might not like the results. @RayGuy asked a good question. Do you want a smooth response for multiple seats/music while moving around, or just one seat for movies? This makes a difference.

Either way, two subs are much better for apartments IMO. You'll get a smoother response and thus no nasty peaks and nulls. Nulls and suck outs cause people to turn up their bass, then when a frequency hits that is centered on a peak, your neighbors will know it. A flat/flat-rising response will help ensure that the main volume you are listening at, will be maintained in the LF/ULF range.

For your criteria, I vote for a pair of VTF 2.5 from Hsu. If music is a priority, then a pair of LVX12's from Rythmik. If PB2000 Pro is available to you for a similar price, then go for it but I think they tend to run around 1K each. In which case, I'd recommend the Hsu VTF 3.5 at that price point.

Reactions: 1

badtlc

· #15 · Jun 29, 2021

Garet Jax said:
My advice generally is to stay away from SVS. They are a marketing machine - they have nice products, but they cost more than they should. Rythmik, HSU, Monoprice and PSA are who I recommend. They generally have offerings in all price ranges (except for the least expensive)

In general you are correct but SVS is on par in value when you get down the PB-1000 pro. Going above that, yeah. SVS is not going to provide the value of other brands.

Reactions: 3

badtlc

· #16 · Jun 29, 2021

japhx said:
Ah yes, I have seen some long instructions regarding the placement of subwoofer, I will reserve this topic for after I make the decision on what sub to buy

But I am curious, since I will have 2 subwoofer, does the placement matter as much? Can I just be lazy and put it in the front on 2 sides next to the TV stand? Also, if this is an ok solution, should I put the subs inside or outside of the front speakers? (I am using Denon X3600H by the way)

It matters even more with dual subs because one sub can cancel the other sub out when placed improperly.

Reactions: 1

Garet Jax

· #17 · Jun 29, 2021

japhx said:
Got ya. So you would recommend getting 2 of the VTF-15H MK2? These are 15'', I am afraid they are going to be overkill and taking up all the spaces. Plus, they seem to be out of stock for the Satin Black version, and frankly it seems everything else on HSU is also out of stock. Not sure how I can even get these if I wanted to?

Tough question. You have to balance budget, patience, size and surroundings for yourself. One thing to remember though is that selling subs is very difficult because they are costly to ship due to their size and weight. As a result, you might have to take a bath on the sale if you ever want to upgrade them - better to get what you want up front.

I might consider these HSU subs. They aren't top of the line for HSU, but they are still great subs, they are in stock, they are just outside of your budget (assuming satin black) and they are much better than 12" .

Reactions: 1

FrantzM

· #18 · Jun 29, 2021

Hi

For the budget I'd go with the following:
2 x Sub-Whatever from the usual suspect (SVS, HSU, Ryhtmik, Monoprice .. etc) 12" or 15" ... Try to stay under $1200 for the pair (there are deals and open box is a goldmine)
1 x UMik-1 or Equivalent for $100
1 x miniDSP 2 x 4 HD for $200 alternatively Behringer Unit DEQ 2496 or DCX used for less than $200.

You need to learn to use REW and how to measure. One of the best for Bass is the Moving Microphone Method (MMM)... This will take some time. Well, let's be frank.. A lot of time. to learn how o have a smooth Bass response in the listening area. Yes Area not position. Using more than one subs affords you that smooth bass in a substantial area \ volume ... You will have to learn how and research/toil/study to learn how but people here will help you...
That would be the best $ 1500 to 1800, you would have invested in Hifi, once your subs are properly integrated and the low frequency response smooth and proper in level (Repeating: It will take time. )

See less See more

Reactions: 2

Garet Jax

· #19 · Jun 29, 2021

Another thing I would think about if you think 15" subs are too big is to buy the Infinity Reference 12 Sub. It is on special right now at $200 each and would allow you to see what you think of a 12" sub. It won't go below 30Hz, but that will still give you the chest pounding you would love. It won't be as good as the SVS or the HSU, but is a lot less expensive and is smaller than 15". At that price, I expect you could sell 1 or both of these on craigslist and not lose too much money if and when you ever want to upgrade.

Reactions: 2

Garet Jax

· #20 · Jun 29, 2021

FrantzM said:
Hi

For the budget I'd go with the following:
2 x Sub-Whatever from the usual suspect (SVS, HSU, Ryhtmik, Monoprice .. etc) 12" or 15" ... Try to stay under $1200 for the pair (there are deals and open box is a goldmine)
1 x UMik-1 or Equivalent for $100
1 x miniDSP 2 x 4 HD for $200 alternatively Behringer Unit DEQ 2496 or DCX used for less than $200.

You need to learn to use REW and how to measure. One of the best for Bass is the Moving Microphone Method (MMM)... This will take some time. Well, let's be frank.. A lot of time. to learn how o have a smooth Bass response in the listening area. Yes Area not position. Using more than one subs affords you that smooth bass in a substantial area \ volume ... You will have to learn how and research/toil/study to learn how but people here will help you...
That would be the best $ 1500 to 1800, you would have invested in Hifi, once your subs are properly integrated and the low frequency response smooth and proper in level (Repeating: It will take time. )

Very good points. OP - you will probably need to do some learning to get the positioning right if you go with 2 subs. REW is free (but donation should be made), Umik-1 is $75, miniDSP 2x4HD is 220. You can buy miniDSP 2x4 (non-HD) for $95. These are the right tools for helping to position the subs.

Reactions: 1

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