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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have read all about aspect ratio.. but honestly.. why can't all the networks use a 16:9 standard.. I though that the reason tvs went to the 16:9 wide screen format was because that was what a movie screen's size ratio was..

that was the whole letterbox format I thought..


no my 50 inch plasma still has black bars on the top or bottom..

ok now I know what you are going to say.. cause that is the correct aspect ratio or porportions for the content..


ok.. then make the tvs in that aspect ratio..
 

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At the time that 16:9 (also known as 1.78:1) was decided upon, it was considered a good compromise between TV aspect ratios of 1.33:1, and film aspect ratios of 1.85:1 and sometimes 2.35:1. There was no existing content in 1.78:1 aspect ratio.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_W73 /forum/post/16906117


...... why can't all the networks use a 16:9 standard......my 50 inch plasma still has black bars on the top or bottom........

Generally, your set should only have top/bottom black bars for HD network broadcasts during airing of movies with oar > 1.78:1. Something is setup wrong otherwise. How are you receiving your programming and which "networks" are you referring to?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_W73 /forum/post/16906117


I have read all about aspect ratio.. but honestly.. why can't all the networks use a 16:9 standard.. I though that the reason tvs went to the 16:9 wide screen format was because that was what a movie screen's size ratio was..

that was the whole letterbox format I thought..


no my 50 inch plasma still has black bars on the top or bottom..

ok now I know what you are going to say.. cause that is the correct aspect ratio or porportions for the content..


ok.. then make the tvs in that aspect ratio..

The answer is that there is no single correct aspect ratio. In addition, networks do not pick the aspect ratio of their programs. 4x3 content shows up on your 16x9 TV with black bars on the left and right. If the 4x3 content has been letterboxed (for "artistic" reasons) by the producer (commercials do this a lot) then it will show up as black bars all around!


If you have "read all about aspect ratio," keep reading. And look for things like AFD (Active Format Description) that can tell your TV what the aspect ratio of the program is, so that your TV can do what you want...
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by raouliii /forum/post/16906631


Generally, your set should only have top/bottom black bars for HD network broadcasts during airing of movies with oar > 1.78:1. Something is setup wrong otherwise. How are you receiving your programming and which "networks" are you referring to?

i am using dish with a vip722


I guess I am at the mercy of the source. I just see tons of different formats and it is annoying that sometimes , and even on hd channels, here are a sample of what I see..


even on hd.

4:3 black bars on left and right (big brother hd) , 4:3 black bars left and right and top and bottom (mostly commercials) full screen 16:9 (looking like it is just blown up from a 4:3 format (frazier from regual to hd on lifetime) did a back and forth.. the SD is about 1 second sooner so when I go to HD I can compare the edges and the amount of content that is shown is the same based on the edges of the picture..

last one I see and I think is the correct way.. is I see a sd channel in 4:3 with the black bars on the left and right. When I go to the HD 16:9 format there is actual extra content on the left and right that is not displayed on the 4:3. This seems more correct to me as it would not skew the picture and throw the proportions off.


I believe I have also seen a version of this on the top and bottom on my TV2. It is set up differently from dish. It goes through coax and even though I can watch hd channels it is only broadcast in 480 (i or p I forget which). But the format button on the dish remote only has two options. Normal and lettbox. I can't duplicate it right now but I think the difference is between the hd and non hd channels. Sometimes I can see more content higher and lower then on the other.


I know it is alot of stuff but if anyone can make some sense of it for me ?? Thanks for the help
 

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Then networks broadcast in either 16:9 aspect ratio for "HD content" or 4:3 aspect ratio for SD content.

If a program "filmed" with a SD 4:3 aspect ratio camera is being broadcast on a HD channel then they actualy add black/grey or blue side pillers to the video image to convert it to 16:9 aspect ratio and then the upscale the resoution to either 720p or 1080i and encode it in accordance with ATSC digital TV standards.

If the source of your video content thinks your display has a 4:3 aspect ratio it will letterbox 16:9 aspect ratio programs.

If the source of video content thinks you have as 16:9 aspect ratio display it will put black bars on the top and the bottom if the aspect ratio of your sources is higher then 1.78

Your HDTV sets and saves you picture/size settings separatly for each resolution received from each of its interface connections. This eanbles you to have different size settings when receiving from 480i then you have when receving 1080i from your source.
 

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Re-check your video/display settings in the VIP722. Make sure it's set to 1080i and 16:9 (widescreen). Also... (not to assume), you know you need to use HDMI/DVI or component video cables, right?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman /forum/post/16907672


Re-check your video/display settings in the VIP722. Make sure it's set to 1080i and 16:9 (widescreen). Also... (not to assume), you know you need to use HDMI/DVI or component video cables, right?

yes.. using HDMI..

the settings is another topic I am in right now. On my dish 722 hd receiver I set the tv type to 480p cause it allows the dish menu and guide to fit on the screen no matter what format I use on the tv. It allows me to use the formatting on the tv and on the dish to find the screen that works the best and still have the menus fit..

If I use the 1080i setting the only setting I can use on the tv is full. If I use another the menus/guide will go off the screen or get cut off by the sidebars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/16907535


Your HDTV sets and saves you picture/size settings separatly for each resolution received from each of its interface connections. This eanbles you to have different size settings when receiving from 480i then you have when receving 1080i from your source.

how will it save the settings when I believe it shows on the info screen whatever the setting I set in the dish 722. If I set it to 480p then it always says the content is 480p.. if I set it to 1080i I believe it always says 1080i.

I may be mistaken about the last part though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_W73 /forum/post/16908105


how will it save the settings when I believe it shows on the info screen whatever the setting I set in the dish 722. If I set it to 480p then it always says the content is 480p.. if I set it to 1080i I believe it always says 1080i.

I may be mistaken about the last part though.

No, you are correct.


Dish Network HD hardware only outputs one HD video format, regardless of the source; 720p or 1080i. The exception to this is specific HD PPV movies, which can be 1080p.
 

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J-w73,

What make/model number 50" Plasma do you have.

If it is a Samsung then the Info button shows what resolution the TV is receiving from your vip STB. It is possible that your STB will always send the its guide or menu in 480p since all TVs will accept this resolution. You need to check the settings on the TV when actually sending it program content.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/16908264


J-w73,

What make/model number 50" Plasma do you have.

If it is a Samsung then the Info button shows what resolution the TV is receiving from your vip STB. It is possible that your STB will always send the its guide or menu in 480p since all TVs will accept this resolution. You need to check the settings on the TV when actually sending it program content.

tcp50g10 panasonic..

the info button works the same way though.. it shows the resolution the tv is receiving
 

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Hello all, this is my first post on avsforum.com.


I was going to start a new thread, but the forum suggested I read this thread based on my title. I have the same receiver as the OP.


My issue is with stretched images. I notice the premium HD channels (HBO, Sho, Starz, HDNet, etc.) do a great job with the aspect ratio. Then when I watch other channels, the network will get HD-happy and take a program that was originally recorded in 4:3 and stretch it to fill the screen. Not all channels do this and sometimes it's just the commercials (TBS's daytime reruns is one that I can think of off the top of my head). I would be much happier viewing the program in its intended format, but neither my Panasonic bigscreen nor my receiver have any way to fix it. They only allow you to stretch or zoom.


A vertical-only stretch will help with the aspect ratio, but then I lose some of the picture from the top and bottom. Is there any stand alone device that can detect a stretched image and squish it back into 4:3? They say the camera adds 10 pounds, but this is ridiculous!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by quicknick_26 /forum/post/17909017


Hello all, this is my first post on avsforum.com.


I was going to start a new thread, but the forum suggested I read this thread based on my title. I have the same receiver as the OP.


My issue is with stretched images. I notice the premium HD channels (HBO, Sho, Starz, HDNet, etc.) do a great job with the aspect ratio. Then when I watch other channels, the network will get HD-happy and take a program that was originally recorded in 4:3 and stretch it to fill the screen. Not all channels do this and sometimes it's just the commercials (TBS's daytime reruns is one that I can think of off the top of my head). I would be much happier viewing the program in its intended format, but neither my Panasonic bigscreen nor my receiver have any way to fix it. They only allow you to stretch or zoom.


A vertical-only stretch will help with the aspect ratio, but then I lose some of the picture from the top and bottom. Is there any stand alone device that can detect a stretched image and squish it back into 4:3? They say the camera adds 10 pounds, but this is ridiculous!

I've seen some older HD receivers that could un-stretch 4:3 that was stretched, but many of the HD channels that stretch 4:3 to fill the 16:9 image area do it unequally. Meaning the center of the image is not stretched, just the sides are, so simply un-stretching it will not work for reconstituting a correct 4:3 image.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by hphase /forum/post/16906782


If you have "read all about aspect ratio," keep reading. And look for things like AFD (Active Format Description) that can tell your TV what the aspect ratio of the program is, so that your TV can do what you want...

This only works if the stations use this feature correctly. Unfortunately, many stations are not using this and those that are have it set for the primary content and not the commercials.


I dream of the day, when I can set my CECB's to AFD and get everything in it's native format.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/16907535


Then networks broadcast in either 16:9 aspect ratio for "HD content" or 4:3 aspect ratio for SD content.

I keep saying this over and over: Aspect Ratio (16:9/4:3) has nothing to do with HD/SD Quality.
 

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I never said it did. Your are quoting one sentence out of my post completly out of context with the remaing content in my post.

Do you not agree that 4:3 adspect ratio 480i content containing 400k pixels per frame will look worse when upscaled for display on a 1080p display with 2.1 Megapixels per frame then 16:9 aspect ratio content "filmed" with a HD resolution equipment.
 

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You're comparing apples to oranges. 1080p almost always looks better than 480i. It has nothing to do with 4:3 or 16:9.


What really matters is the amount of bandwidth the content has. I'd rather watch 480i at maximum bandwidth, than 1080p at ½ bandwidth.
 

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I totally agree that all content broadcast in 720p or 1080i will look better on a 1080p TV then programs broadcast in 480i will on the same 1080p TV. And The fact that 720p and 1080i programs arealways broadcast in 16:9 aspect ratio and 480i programs are always broadcast in 4:3 aspect ratio is just coincidental and does not control the picture quality.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/17917236


I totally agree that all content broadcast in 720p or 1080i will look better on a 1080p TV then programs broadcast in 480i will on the same 1080p TV. And The fact that 720p and 1080i programs arealways broadcast in 16:9 aspect ratio and 480i programs are always broadcast in 4:3 aspect ratio is just coincidental and does not control the picture quality.

Bandwidth makes a difference. A 480i program broadcast using a bandwidth of 8 Mbps (a very high bandwidth for typical broadcast SD content, but some stations are doing this), will look better on a 1080p TV than a 1080i program broadcast using the same bandwidth (8 Mbps). 8Mbps is too low for almost any 1080i content, and will most likely result in very visible, annoying artifacts.


Second, it is not true that all 480i content is broadcast at a 4:3 aspect ratio. The vast majority of 480i programming is broadcast at 4:3, but there are some stations that send 480i with a 16:9 aspect ratio. I believe that almost all SD subchannels will eventually move to 480i 16:9 format (or possibly 480P 16:9), since almost all new content is produced in that aspect ratio, and viewers will continue to upgrade to 16:9 TV's. A possible exception would be a subchannel dedicated to broadcasting primarily old 4:3 content.
 
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