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Asus Xonar DX where the hell is the tone controls?

3016 Views 20 Replies 8 Participants Last post by Th3_uN1Qu3, Jan 4, 2009

john5220

Discussion Starter · Jan 3, 2009

I had a Audigy 2 ZS and everything was fine.

I sold it bought the Xonar based on reviews now the problem I have is the Xonar

has no options for Bass and Treble tone sliders it only has a retarded EQ.

Problem with the EQ apart from being retarded is it distorts the sound when you raise bass and treble to high.

You do not have this problem when adjusting a tone control with an Audigy 2 ZS

Please help my Z5500 has no treble and when I raise the treble on the EQ it sounds like crap. I can't believe my old Audigy 2 ZS sounded so much better.

All this SNR is so useless.

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

sotti

· #2 · Jan 3, 2009

sound like you've got your levels all messed up.

Either that our you are playing back at the wrong levels.

Beyond that, most people will tell you tone controls and EQs are evil and shouldn't be used.

john5220

Discussion Starter · #3 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti /forum/post/15444439

sound like you've got your levels all messed up.

Either that our you are playing back at the wrong levels.

Beyond that, most people will tell you tone controls and EQs are evil and shouldn't be used.

Hmm i see.

Whats the difference between an EQ and Tone control?

sotti

· #4 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by john5220 /forum/post/15444493

Hmm i see.

Whats the difference between an EQ and Tone control?

Both are bad.

john5220

Discussion Starter · #5 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti /forum/post/15444900

Both are bad.

If both are bad then why does my Z5500 sound better when I choose the rock setting on the EQ? that is the preset.

I taught since most speakers has poor frequency response it is best to correct it using an EQ or tone control etc.

I usualy raise the EQ like realy high +15DB and stuff.

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d_98se

· #6 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by john5220 /forum/post/15445001

If both are bad then why does my Z5500 sound better when I choose the rock setting on the EQ?

It sounds better to YOU because that's what you are used to. Properly mixed and mastered audio has eq factored in.

john5220

Discussion Starter · #7 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_98se /forum/post/15445034

It sounds better to YOU because that's what you are used to. Properly mixed and mastered audio has eq factored in.

I see so what you saying is I should leave the bass and treble and EQ all on default?

And this is all I need to do?

Surely an EQ must have some benefit?

I tried listening to it flat on default and they just sounded horrible to me even with a Audio technica ATH-M50 studio monitor headphones.

For some reason I cannot enjoy music without amping the bass and treble.

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vladd

· #8 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by john5220 /forum/post/15445568

I see so what you saying is I should leave the bass and treble and EQ all on default?

And this is all I need to do?

Yes, that will give you the most accurate reproduction of the recorded source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john5220 /forum/post/15445568

Surely an EQ must have some benefit?

It does... in the recording/mixing stages. It's just a "look at what I have" feature when it comes to playback.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john5220 /forum/post/15445568

I tried listening to it flat on default and they just sounded horrible to me even with a Audio technica ATH-M50 studio monitor headphones.

For some reason I cannot enjoy music without amping the bass and treble.

If you decide to amp the bass and treble, they should be boosted equally.

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john5220

Discussion Starter · #9 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd /forum/post/15445594

Yes, that will give you the most accurate reproduction of the recorded source.

It does... in the recording/mixing stages. It's just a "look at what I have" feature when it comes to playback.

If you decide to amp the bass and treble, they should be boosted equally.

thanks I have an idea here on what to do now

el Filou

· #10 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd /forum/post/15445594

It does... in the recording/mixing stages. It's just a "look at what I have" feature when it comes to playback.

Isn't EQs purpose to be used to correct deficiencies in speakers? i.e. worse frequency response in some bands is corrected through the EQ?

xgecko

· #11 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by sotti /forum/post/15444439

sound like you've got your levels all messed up.

Either that our you are playing back at the wrong levels.

Beyond that, most people will tell you tone controls and EQs are evil and shouldn't be used.

I have to step in here and say that this is simply not true at all. It is one of the biggest myths in audio aside from truly absurd myths like "cable sound".

There is absolutely nothing wrong with either tone controls or equalization when implemented properly - i.e. in a low noise circuit. Tone controls allow a broad alteration of the frequency response to elevate or diminish the highs, mids or lows while equalization allows a finer adjustment.

For a perfect example of where a form of equalization is truly beneficial and makes a good system sound much better one only needs to look at Digital Room Correction systems all of which use some form of equalization. I have Audyssey and it makes an enormous difference in the imaging, frequency response, bass response and so on. Yes, it uses a very advanced form of eq different from both parametric and graphical eq systems but it is a form of eq nonetheless.

As long as the eq or tone controls do not add any noise they can be used freely to tailor the sound to your particular taste. I personally prefer a bit more bass and a bit less treble - my ears are very sensitive to high frequencies and I love strong bass - so I tend to use them to tweak the sound a bit. It sounds better. What more can you want?

The myth came from the audio purists that were typically completely ignorant as to how anything actually works. These are the same people that spend thousands of dollars on cables imagining that they actually make a difference; in many cases were they to properly eq their system they would be astounded at how much better it sounds. If they are willing to spend thousands on snake oil it is a mystery as to why they would not want to use something that actually works.

So feel free to ignore the claims that tone controls and eq are bad. You can test it for yourself; if you make adjustments to either do you get better sound? If so then how can someone tell you it is bad?

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xgecko

· #12 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by d_98se /forum/post/15445034

It sounds better to YOU because that's what you are used to. Properly mixed and mastered audio has eq factored in.

The engineer has no clue as to what the response of your system may be so it is impossible for them to factor in eq. They make it sound good in their studio setup and unless you have EXACTLY the same setup including the room, speakers, furniture and positioning it will sound different.

Again, there is absolutely nothing wrong with making some adjustments to suit your taste and no one can tell you that it is a bad thing. It is no different than "season to taste".

vladd

· #13 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by el Filou /forum/post/15446343

Isn't EQs purpose to be used to correct deficiencies in speakers? i.e. worse frequency response in some bands is corrected through the EQ?

Yes but the average person has no idea how to do this or even how to check the frequency response. They normally just "crank up the bass".

I did however forget that I was posting on AVS.

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john5220

Discussion Starter · #14 · Jan 3, 2009

I don't know about others however I cannot stand to listen to music with a Flat EQ. I have to raise the EQ bars and it makes a world of difference.

Now when I raise the EQ bars the bass becomes seriously powerful and the highs very high and nice. However something else happens the sound starts to sound as though its dying when the bass and highs hit like I mean the mids the vocals etc.

Whenever you raise the Bass EQ bar to high and the drummer hits the bass everything else gets silent and then start back normal.

When I had my Audigy 2 ZS I could raise the Bass and Treble tone sliders in the advanced windows control tab to my liking and no matter how high once I stay within 75% max the sound always sounded like magic. was as if I suddenly magically bought bullet tweeters for my Z5500 or something.

And the bass ow the bass you could play th eZ5500 on low volume and you got monster bass and all without even having to tough the EQ.

Perhaps the Xonar is software EQ and the Audigy is Hardware powered?

I mean it would not kill Asus to put in a tone control in the drivers right?

I hear from someone else that tone control is a physical limitation of the hardware and onboard sound frequently suffers from this.

Heck the Audigy 2 ZS even had something called Bass Boost and it was hardware powered to. I really loved that function. I agree the xonar sounds better on my Sennheiser HD555 or Audio Technica ATH-M50 studio monitors however when comes to things like Logitrech Z5500 the xonar just sounds boring and weak.

And SNR of the Audigy vs Xonar for a Z5500? Nah I can't hear it with these cheap speakers I can only notice it with audiophile headphones.

Perhaps I need a further explanation on EQ and Tone Controls?

Does the Audigy 2 ZS have a hardware amp built in for the tone controls or something?

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john5220

Discussion Starter · #15 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by vladd /forum/post/15447545

Yes but the average person has no idea how to do this or even how to check the frequency response. They normally just "crank up the bass".

I did however forget that I was posting on AVS.

Aah here we go I think this may have been the culprit?

Since you all say EQ and Tone Control is the same just that EQ allows for fine tuning.

Then there is no urgent need for the tone control. I would like to think tone controls are for noobs right? No wonder it sounded better to me is cause I screwed up the EQ. lol

And yeah for some reason with this Z5500 I love to crank up the bass and shake glass in the kitchen with it. lol And my my teeth grinding. I also like ear slicing highs.

But I fear this is just due to the fact I am accustomed to that type of music and its cause of that I do not know real audio quality?

Perhaps it shall take some time for me to get accustomed to who knows.

I shall give it a go and see what happens. I guess it was a good thing I sold my Audigy 2 ZS after all.

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john5220

Discussion Starter · #16 · Jan 3, 2009

Ok check this reply by someone on the Asus forum who has tried to answer my question.

What you guys think of his response?

http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?...Language=en-us

Case

Member

Posts : 5

Level :

Tech Points : 0

From: Czech Republic

Posted:1/3/2009 10:34:00 PM # 2

Only Creative cards have hardware based bass/treble control, as far as I know.

The sound of Xonar is something you need to get used to (or at least I did), but it's certainly worth it. I have an old Audigy 2 in my computer for years, also had X-Fi Fatal1ty for about a year, and the difference when you can directly compare their output with Xonar is astonishing - in favor of the Xonar, of course. At least on my Sennheiser headphones (on my old 5.1 speakers - not so much). I thought the X-Fi sounds as good as it gets and didn't expect much when changing to Xonar - was I ever wrong! And don't get me started on the day/night difference between Dolby Headphone and the pathetic CMSS 3D (which for years I thought was really great).

The key to the Xonar EQ is in small adjustments - if you crank any band up or down too much, it'll start to sound awful pretty soon, that's certainly true. But that's not really needed - the sound is very good as it is (with flat EQ), you just need to make a few subtle adjustments to your liking. I mostly use the S-Rock preset (or my own, which is basicaly the same as S-Rock, only shifted a bit higher) - had to get used to it, because it sounds so much different from what I was used to with Creative cards. But definitely in a good way - the Creative cards sound very "plasticky" in comparison, the sound is flat and the bass frequencies are all awfully muffled - nowhere near as clear and well defined as on a Xonar. Xonars are much more "live" and real sounding - if you have the right equipment and can hear the differences (some people can't and there's no shame in it). Creative cards tend to alter the sound in such a way that it sounds good on pretty much any speakers or headphones, even cheap ones the majority of their customers use, but at the expense of clarity and definition (case in point - the ridiculous Crystalizer feature on X-Fi cards). Xonars, on the other hand, sound like it SHOULD sound, but you simply need good equipment to really appreciate it.

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vladd

· #17 · Jan 3, 2009

Quote:
Originally Posted by john5220 /forum/post/15448387

Since you all say EQ and Tone Control is the same just that EQ allows for fine tuning.

Tone control is essentially a two band EQ (in very simplified terms). One band for low frequencies, one band for high. A 3 band EQ would give you more control over specific frequencies. You could then adjust bass, midrange and treble frequencies. A 5 band EQ would allow you to adjust low and mid bass, midrange and two levels of treble. The more bands you have on the equalizer, the more control you have over specific frequencies.

As for the reply on the Asus forum, I don't have a Xonar so I can't comment on that part but the "subtle adjustments" comment is right for any EQ adjustments. When you adjust one band, it will adjust the nearby bands to some degree (how much depends on the quality of the EQ).

Vern Dias

· #18 · Jan 3, 2009

is it distorts the sound when you raise bass and treble to high.[/QUOTEThen adjust the midrange sliders downward..... Or, turn down the volume because you are clearly overloading something in the audio chain.

BTW, I agree with others here that this is absolutely the best sounding audio card I have every heard.

You might also want to consider retraining your ears to be more in tune with less eq.

Vern

Th3_uN1Qu3

· #19 · Jan 3, 2009

I know the hardware tone control on Creative cards and it was indeed a good thing. Some people above has said that EQ sucks, well, too much software EQ does suck indeed, and i generally avoid using it and sticking to hardware tone controls where available, or the amp tone knobs.

My guess is that you need a hardware equalizer (an EQ box) to adjust the sound to your liking.

john5220

Discussion Starter · #20 · Jan 4, 2009

Vern Dias said:
Quote:
is it distorts the sound when you raise bass and treble to high.[/QUOTEThen adjust the midrange sliders downward..... Or, turn down the volume because you are clearly overloading something in the audio chain.

BTW, I agree with others here that this is absolutely the best sounding audio card I have every heard.

You might also want to consider retraining your ears to be more in tune with less eq.

Vern

Click to expand...

Thanks I shall then retrain my ears to listening to music without applying EQ.

But perhaps it may have been wise that Asus included a hardware powered amp for changing the tone who knows. I think XOnar has a software powered EQ while creative is Hardware correct me if I am wrong.

1 - 20 of 21 Posts

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