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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,


I'm sure the required distance away from/behind the AT screen varies by manufacturer, but I was more curious about the case where I want to also place L/R fronts behind the screen. Anyone have thoughts on how far in from the screen borders each of the front L/R's should be? 1ft? 2ft?


Thanks,

Rukus
 

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pick a spot and giver a listen......try a different spot and giver a listen.....keep doing this till you find what your ears like.


Mine are about 6" from the inside edge on both sides and the center.....well in the center. All my fronts are the exact same speaker, 3 Klipsch RF-82 II. The sound imaging is awesome.


If you're talking didtance from the screen itself, mine are about 8 inches but can be as close a a couple of inches...I think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabalocker /forum/post/20867787


pick a spot and giver a listen......try a different spot and giver a listen.....keep doing this till you find what your ears like.


Mine are about 6" from the inside edge on both sides and the center.....well in the center. All my fronts are the exact same speaker, 3 Klipsch RF-82 II. The sound imaging is awesome.


If you're talking didtance from the screen itself, mine are about 8 inches but can be as close a a couple of inches...I think.

Thanks guys, much appreciated.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 /forum/post/20867300


Hi all,


I'm sure the required distance away from/behind the AT screen varies by manufacturer, but I was more curious about the case where I want to also place L/R fronts behind the screen. Anyone have thoughts on how far in from the screen borders each of the front L/R's should be? 1ft? 2ft?


Thanks,

Rukus

And a good question. I moved mine in after doing 2 things:

1. Visiting a real THX certified dubbing stage and

2. Lots of careful listening.


The dubbing stage had their L and R speakers just inside the 1.85:1 width simply because not all masks are truly AT. And because the sound mixers create sound tracks with the speakers at these positions, it makes perfect sense to do the same at home.


Whilst wider is often said to be better (very true for music), films sound is very balanced. Initially I had the L and R speakers wide (just inside the Scope screen) and this was fine for Scope. Then I listened to a 1.78:1 film sound track and suddenly heard a sound to picture mis-match. Moving the speakers in solved that, but came with a pleasent surprise. Now my Scope film sound tracks also sound better with better sound to picture match. I have had my AT screen since early 2007 and the only thing I would change if I was able to do it all again is the size. I'd simply scale everything up.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAVX /forum/post/21223100


And a good question. I moved mine in after doing 2 things:

1. Visiting a real THX certified dubbing stage and

2. Lots of careful listening.


The dubbing stage had their L and R speakers just inside the 1.85:1 width simply because not all masks are truly AT. And because the sound mixers create sound tracks with the speakers at these positions, it makes perfect sense to do the same at home.


Whilst wider is often said to be better (very true for music), films sound is very balanced. Initially I had the L and R speakers wide (just inside the Scope screen) and this was fine for Scope. Then I listened to a 1.78:1 film sound track and suddenly heard a sound to picture mis-match. Moving the speakers in solved that, but came with a pleasent surprise. Now my Scope film sound tracks also sound better with better sound to picture match. I have had my AT screen since early 2007 and the only thing I would change if I was able to do it all again is the size. I'd simply scale everything up.


Mark,


If I go with a 120" wide (130" diagonal) CIH AT Scope Screen the 1.78 picture width would be 91" (104" diagonal). My viewing distance will be about 12 ft.


Placing the LR Front speakers at the very edges of the 1.78 picture places the LR Front tweeters about 5" in from the 91" wide 1.78 picture edges and the tweeters 20" in from the scope screens edges!



So, in your subjective opinion your thinking that I should be OK with my LR Front Mains just inside the 1.78 91" width even for the scope screen pictures spatial cues?



The reason for my questioning this is that I was planning on using a Seymour Center Stage XD AT screen and thought I might need to purchase their optional Acoustically Transparent Masking Panels which would then place the LR Front speakers more towards the LR edges of the scope screen. Now you have me considering that if I go that route that my speaker placement may be to wide for the 16:9 picture.... HMMMMMMMM!



I would rather purchase the Non-AT Masking Panels instead of the Acoustically Transparent ones if possible!



...Glenn
 

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I have a 120" 2.37 sitting 12' from screen. I have speakers just enough inside screen frame to mitigate sonic impact. This puts the L&R just outside projected image with 1.8 material and I wouldn't have mine any closer.


I consider my L&R relatively close together at 9-10' apart and without the DSX wides the front stage is too center focused.


Move Em around and see what sounds best to you....
 

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^^^


Thanks for the reply Nick!


I am also planning a similar screen, a Seymour 2.37 120" wide AT screen AND will have the same 12 ft viewing distance... That's what I like, real world subjectve comparison experience!


Anyhow, so you think that I should then probably go with the Seymour Acoustically Transparent Masking Panels and place the LR Fronts towards the LR edges of the Scope Screen?



Optimally, I presume I should really try various speaker width placements BEFORE I order the Masking Panels to determine whether or not I should go with the AT or Non-AT panels!


On another note Nick, and at the risk of straying off topic, how do you find the overall immersion and viewing experience from 12 ft with your screen size in regards to your scope and 16:9 sizes!



I am still fighting with the notion of possibly stepping down from the 120" wide to a 115" or even a 110" wide scope screen size as I worry about overall long term brightness with my JVC RS20 projector / Panamorph UH480 Lens. My throw distance will be 16 ft, viewing distance 12 ft and I will have total light control.


Decisions, decisions! I am starting to realize now that I should really set up the projector first and then experiment with various screen sizes on a bed sheet and then experiment with various speaker placements before ordering any masking panels!



I also would like to try using DSX Wides as I will be using a Denon 4311CI. My room is just over 12 ft wide and I will have to place the speakers outside of the false wall and forward on the side walls to maintain the correct geometry.



...Glenn : )
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann /forum/post/0


^^^


Thanks for the reply Nick!


I am also planning the same exact screen, a Seymour 2.37 120" wide AT screen AND will have the same 12 ft viewing distance... That's what I like, real world subjectve comparison experience!


Anyhow, so you think that I should then probably go with the Seymour Acoustically Transparent Masking Panels and place the LR Fronts towards the LR edges of the Scope Screen?



Optimally, I presume I should really try various speaker width placements BEFORE I order the Masking Panels to determine whether or not I should go with the AT or Non-AT panels!


On another note Nick, and at the risk of straying off topic, how do you find the overall immersion and viewing experience from 12 ft with your screen size in regards to your scope and 16:9 sizes!



I am still fighting with the notion of possibly stepping down to a 115" or even a 110" wide scope screen size as I worry about overall long term brightness with my JVC RS20 projector / Panamorph UH480 Lens. My throw distance will be 16 ft, viewing distance 12 ft and I will have total light control.


Decisions, decisions! I am starting to realize now that I should really set up the projector first and then experiment with various screen sizes on a bed sheet and then experiment with various speaker placements before ordering any masking panels!



I also would like to try using DSX Wides as I will be using a Denon 4311CI. My room is just over 12 ft wide and I will have to place the speakers outside of the false wall and forward on the side walls to maintain the correct geometry.


...Glenn : )

Glenn,


First your welcome!


Our rooms are very similar. I originally had the speakers outside the screen because like you I was concerned with the masking. I didn't want two layers of material over my tweeters. However I found my room was dark enough that I have no need for masking.


I wouldn't go down in size in my room, but also consider the screen will be 10' wide so that leaves 1' on each side of your screen. Do you have knee walls? They can push the screen down on the sides if so. Yes project on a sheet for reference, but remember the actual screen will be MUCH brighter. The biggest aid I used was using tape to put an outline on the wall helps visualize what your working with. If your room and projector allow I don't think that image is anywhere close to too big. I throw 16'too and have 1000hrs on my lamp(ae4000) and can leave half my lights on no problem.


Haha DSX wides outside my wall too! If your close you could come over and test drive your theater before you built it!



Might want to cruise my build thread, sounds like your room is very similar and give me any pointers/advice I might need!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenn Baumann /forum/post/21223863


Mark,


If I go with a 120" wide (130" diagonal) CIH AT Scope Screen the 1.78 picture width would be 91" (104" diagonal). My viewing distance will be about 12 ft.


Placing the LR Front speakers at the very edges of the 1.78 picture places the LR Front tweeters about 5" in from the 91" wide 1.78 picture edges and the tweeters 20" in from the scope screens edges!

Here is my baffle wall.


The screen is just 8 feet wide meaning the L and R are just inside 6 feet. Yet (maybe due to the speaker's design) I have great separation for music and film sound.

Quote:
So, in your subjective opinion your thinking that I should be OK with my LR Front Mains just inside the 1.78 91" width even for the scope screen pictures spatial cues?

You really need to listen to the Scope film soundtracks with a system set up like this. I went back into the older "played to death" sound tracks like T2JD and the sound matches the picture better with them there than it did when they were outside the 1.78:1 area.

Quote:
The reason for my questioning this is that I was planning on using a Seymour Center Stage XD AT screen and thought I might need to purchase their optional Acoustically Transparent Masking Panels which would then place the LR Front speakers more towards the LR edges of the scope screen. Now you have me considering that if I go that route that my speaker placement may be to wide for the 16:9 picture.... HMMMMMMMM!



I would rather purchase the Non-AT Masking Panels instead of the Acoustically Transparent ones if possible!



...Glenn

I am currently not using side masks. I had masks before I went AT and they were open more times than they were closed (and that has not changed) based on what I watch.


If you elected to go the route I have, then it won't really matter if your masks are true AT or not. The weave that you have mentioned comes in black BTW, you just need to find a supplier that will sell you small or cut to size amounts. I am lucky enough to have found one local to me.


They have both the original "SmX" known a 2 x 2 and tighter weave which is 2 x 1. They can't supply me with 1 x 1 at this stage. 1 x 1 is what I believe SmX's new 4K is.


The fabric sample on the right is NOT SmX 4K, but is very good for both projected images and sound. It requires less rotation than the standard 2 x 2 as well.


 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by james_vandre /forum/post/21227176


Even I want to replace my speakers please guide. I am using Iball speakers and need some thing cool

Sorry, what are "Iball" speakers?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seegs108 /forum/post/21227350


From what I've read you want them to be 3/4 of the way up the screen and no closer than 6" from the screen. I'm not sure on how far the L & R need to be from the edges though.

I've done Procella Audio's "baffle wall" class and they say that the speakers should be 5/8th of the screen height from the base of the screen.


When I did mine, my screen was originally to be 4 feet off the floor, so I intentionally lowered them. Now that my screen is just 2 feet off the floor, I've had to make adjustments to other things in the room, such removing the feet off the seating to lower them 6" or so. At the front row (2x the image height) the sound is directly inline with my ears. The rear row is elevated 1 foot and they are with in and they could be a little higher there. Anyway, that baffle wall was designed back in late 06 and assembled early 07. It has served me well and works well. If I was to make another, I probably consider raising the LCR speakers slightly, but given what I spent to get that done, probably not unless I am able to make it larger, much larger
 

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Hi Rukus,

I've an 1.78:1 AT screen, 100" wide and my choice for speaker placement has been to follow, where possible, the theaters recommendations:

- baffle wall

- screen viewing angle is 45°

- L & R speakers are near the screen edges

- LCR height placement with horn at 2/3 of the screen height (JBL recommandations)


About the height placement, I've used a 2.35:1 picture as a reference instead of the 1.78:1, see the following picture:

 

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THX state that speakers should be vertically centered for AT screens in the home.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Wow, completely forgot about this thread until someone resurrected it.

Appreciate the further thoughts and images/guides.


I am likely to put them just shy of centered vertically to maintain ear-level height. As for where I am placing them horizontally, I actually ended up (for now) right as Mark suggested at the 16:9 borders (it was more because I still haven't settled on my masking material, ie At vs non AT).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rukus29 /forum/post/21232702


Wow, completely forgot about this thread until someone resurrected it.

Appreciate the further thoughts and images/guides.


I am likely to put them just shy of centered vertically to maintain ear-level height. As for where I am placing them horizontally, I actually ended up (for now) right as Mark suggested at the 16:9 borders (it was more because I still haven't settled on my masking material, ie At vs non AT).


rukus,



Please do keep us updated as to your subjective experiences!




...Glenn
 

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I am going to follow this thread as I have a similar problem in my space. My current setup is well inside Dolby's recommendation of 22 to 30 degrees from the center or main listening position (MLP) to both the left and right speakers. I am currently at about 14 degrees and feel that there is not enough separation between my left and right speakers. Although they sound good, I believe I am not getting enough immersion from my sound field.


I suspect that a few folks with AT screens have to sacrifice Dolby's recommendations especially when the width of the screen in not wide enough compared to the distance to the MLP. So, in your opinions, is it better to have the front sound stage "locked" to the image on the screen or is it better to have more separation between your left and right speakers to meet Dolby's requirements???
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModestHT /forum/post/21239849


I suspect that a few folks with AT screens have to sacrifice Dolby's recommendations especially when the width of the screen in not wide enough compared to the distance to the MLP. So, in your opinions, is it better to have the front sound stage "locked" to the image on the screen or is it better to have more separation between your left and right speakers to meet Dolby's requirements???

It depends what your listening to. When I did my first "Scope" screen, the speakers were beneath and tilted up. Initially I had them at the edges of the Scope screen and this seemed OK music and Scope films. Then I watched a few films in 1.85:1/1.78:1 and suddenly could hear the sound/picture mismatch. This annoyed me to the point where I altered my rig to allow me to bring the L and R speakers in. I then watched the same group of films again (both Scope and non Scope) and found that even the Scope films sounded better (because the speakers were now in the same horizontal location of the speakers used during the mixing process). Music did tend to sound a little restrained, but given I am 95% film sound 5% music, the overall change was for the better.


When I went AT, it was a case of simply finding the right vertical alignment of screen and speakers that worked for me.


Another benefit of having the speakers inside the screen is when you do a wall to wall screen as I have done. The sound would boom if the speakers were in the corners.
 
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