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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Please bare with me for making a second post on this but I simply asked the wrong question and did not provide enough information in the original post and I am afraid it will be overlooked now.


The basic question is, 'Do I NEED to replace my current AVR'? I am afraid I am really missing out by not having TrueHD and HD-DTS. My current AVR has multichannel analog inputs but I don't know how to use it to not have to worry about HD-DTS or TrueHD. Here is my current setup:


25' x 20'~ Room

Mits 82" WD-82837

PS3 Slim

Sony STR-3100ES AVR

Klipsch ceiling mounted RSX-4 Front and Rear

Klipsch RCX-4 Center

Klipsch 12" Sub


Here are the specs on my AVR:


Additional Features 4-ohm/8-ohm switch

Built-in Display Fluorescent

Amplifier Output Details 120 Watt - 8 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.05% - 2 channel(s) ( main ) ¦ 100 Watt - 4 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.09% - 2 channel(s) ( main ) ¦ 120 Watt - 8 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.05% - 2 channel(s) ( front ) ¦ 120 Watt - 8 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.05% - 1 channel(s) ( center ) ¦ 120 Watt - 8 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.05% - 2 channel(s) ( surround ) ¦ 120 Watt - 8 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.05% - 2 channel(s) ( surround back ) ¦ 100 Watt - 4 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.09% - 2 channel(s) ( front ) ¦ 100 Watt - 4 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.09% - 1 channel(s) ( center ) ¦ 100 Watt - 4 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.09% - 2 channel(s) ( surround ) ¦ 100 Watt - 4 Ohm - 20 - 20000 Hz - THD 0.09% - 2 channel(s) ( surround back )

Response Bandwidth 10 - 100000 Hz

Surround System Class 7.1 channel

Surround Sound Effects Digital Cinema Sound EX

Built-in Decoders DTS-ES decoder, Dolby Pro Logic II, Dolby Digital Surround EX, DTS Neo:6, DTS-ES Matrix 6.1, DTS 96/24, Dolby Digital, DTS decoder, Dolby Pro Logic IIx

Sound Output Mode Surround Sound

Timer Sleep

DSP Presets Stadium, Jazz club, Digital Concert Hall A, Digital Concert Hall B, Sports, Church, Live Concert

Built-in Clock Timer

ConnectorsOptical Digital Output Yes

Optical Digital Input Yes

Coaxial Digital Input Yes

Remote Control (2nd)Technology Infrared

Type Universal remote control

GeneralWeight 46.3 lbs

Height 6.9 in

Depth 18.5 in

Width 16.9 in

Product Type AV receiver

Remote ControlType Universal remote control - infrared

Features Programmable, LCD display, multi-brand compatibility

Supported Devices TV, VCR, cassette deck, DVD player, MD player

RadioSignal-To-Noise Ratio 70 dB

Antenna Form Factor Loop AM / wire FM

Tuning Display Fluorescent display

Type Radio tuner - AM/FM - digital

Total Harmonic Distortion Mono: 0.3%, stereo: 0.5%

Preset Station Qty 30 preset stations

Response Bandwidth 30 - 15000 Hz

Tuner Frequency Range FM: 87.5 - 108 MHz, AM: 530 - 1710 kHz

PowerPower Device Power supply - internal

ConnectionsConnector Type 4 x digital audio input (optical) ( TOSLINK ) - rear ¦ 1 x digital audio output (optical) ( TOSLINK ) - rear ¦ 2 x digital audio input (coaxial) ( RCA phono ) - rear ¦ 1 x serial ( 9 pin D-Sub ) - rear ¦ 1 x AM antenna - rear ¦ 1 x FM antenna - rear ¦ 2 x component video input ( RCA phono x 3 ) - rear ¦ 1 x component video output ( RCA phono x 3 ) - rear ¦ 3 x S-Video output ( 4 pin mini-DIN ) - rear ¦ 4 x S-Video input ( 4 pin mini-DIN ) - rear ¦ 4 x composite video output ( RCA phono ) - rear ¦ 4 x composite video input ( RCA phono ) - rear ¦ 8 x audio line-in ( RCA phono x 2 ) - rear ¦ 6 x audio line-out ( RCA phono x 2 ) - rear ¦ 1 x 7.1 channel audio line-in ( RCA phono x 8 ) - rear ¦ 1 x 7.1 channel audio line-out ( RCA phono x 8 ) - rear ¦ 4 x front speakers output ( banana x 2 ) - rear ¦ 4 x surround speakers output ( banana x 2 ) - rear ¦ 1 x center speaker output ( banana x 2 ) - rear ¦ 6 x remote control - rear


If I HAVE to replace my AVR because I am missing a whole new world of fidelity, than I need something that will not be a step back from what I currently have.


Thanks for the help and thanks in advance for not yelling at me for making a new post. ;-)
 

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To educate myself a bit before answering, and posted here so others can do the same if they so wish, I did a quick search and found:

* the PS3 slim CAN bitstream TrueHD and DTS-HD MA, unlike the older version of the PS3

* I verified that the Sony STR-DA3100ES AVR really does not have any HDMI inputs


So with your current player and AVR, you really cannot hear the HD audio formats no matter how you hook it up.


I think the truth is that the audio difference is not all that noticeable. I did my own test and did hear a big difference, but I have since come to believe that the difference I heard was a different mix rather than a difference in the sound quality due to the format. I read an article where the writer visited Dolby Labs and did some comparative listening to the same mix in various formats and reported that it was hard to tell the difference between the lossless formats and high-bitrate lossy formats. So I no longer believe that there is a big difference.


That said, I took care to setup my system so that I could hear the HD audio formats. It gives me peace of mind that I am getting the most out of my investment I guess.


So if you want that peace of mind, or just want a new receiver anyway, go for it! But don't expect a massive difference in sound quality. The difference may not even be audible.


-Max
 

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If the functionality of the AVR is meeting your needs then no, you don't have to replace it.

If you want / need HDMI connectivity in the AVR, then yes you have to replace it.

If my old AVR had optical and coaxial audio inputs I would still be using it.

Having said that, I really do like the HDMI connectivity.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I am thinking that trying to match my current 120 watt with a .05% THD is not going to be realistic for close to $500. I think the whole HD audio thing might be like comparing the difference between an MP3 192 and one at 256. You really can't tell a difference.
 

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"That said, I took care to setup my system so that I could hear the HD audio formats. It gives me peace of mind that I am getting the most out of my investment I guess."


This.


You are going to get a lot of variety in the are "HD Codec worth it" category but I think that this reason actually means something for a large number of people. So, only you can decide if it's worth it.


For me, is it a night and day difference? Hard to say because I have never done a level set comparison but it does feel and sound more dynamic to me.


So, to get HD you have two choices, get an HDMI enabled AVR or replace the PS3 with a player than can output multi-channel analog. I would replace the AVR if it was me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_Strasse /forum/post/18132915


"That said, I took care to setup my system so that I could hear the HD audio formats. It gives me peace of mind that I am getting the most out of my investment I guess."


This.


You are going to get a lot of variety in the are "HD Codec worth it" category but I think that this reason actually means something for a large number of people. So, only you can decide if it's worth it.

both the op of what you quoted and your elaboration on it make a very good point... there's nothing wrong with some subjectivism... you can be objective without being a fanatic about it and sucking all the fun out of the hobby...



holds true for a lot of the a/v equipment "we" buy, as well...
 

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If you are happy with the functionality and features of your present receiver keep it and enjoy

If not replace it!!


From a sound perspective you may or may not gain much.


For me if I want it and it is within the budget I would go for it
 

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You need to decide if you want the ability to hear the hi rez codecs. I am glad that I can enjoy them, and consider it a worthy investment to be able to do so. The differences are apparent to me, between the lossy mixes verses the lossless ones that I've heard in my system.
 

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I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to hear the lossless codecs. If I were you and I was happy with my current AVR's features I would just hook up my PS3 via optical and call it a day.


One thing to remember is that regular DD and dts on BluRay are encoded at a higher bit rate so they will sound better than they do on DVD. Often times these high bit rate lossy codecs will be indistinguishable from lossless.

Here is a link to a comparison of lossless to lossy codecs.


That being said a new AVR is nice for the auto set-up/room EQ features as well as the convience of HDMI.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyaspie /forum/post/18133145


I wouldn't worry too much about not being able to hear the lossless codecs. If I were you and I was happy with my current AVR's features I would just hook up my PS3 via optical and call it a day.


One thing to remember is that regular DD and dts on BluRay are encoded at a higher bit rate so they will sound better than they do on DVD. Often times these high bit rate lossy codecs will be indistinguishable from lossless.

Here is a link to a comparison of lossless to lossy codecs.


That being said a new AVR is nice for the auto set-up/room EQ features as well as the convience of HDMI.

Personally, that article may not reflect what we hear individually in our set ups, and we can't really make that same recording comparisons that they did. Other variables come into play for us average Joes who listen. Just because they didn't hear much of a difference then, doesn't mean no audible differences exist or will never exist.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv /forum/post/18133204


Other variables come into play for us average Joes who listen.

Of course they do, the mind is a powerful thing.



Just kidding. With all due respect, the listening tests they participated in were under controlled circumstances at Dolby and dts laboratories. With that being said, both Dolby and dts have some interest in there actually being hugh differences. Obviously not as big an interest as the component manufacturers, but some interest just the same. Yet these huge differences were not detected, at best small differences were distinguished.


When you think about it, that is a testament to how good the legacy codecs really are. Then when you toss in the HBRs obtained by BluRay, the legacy codecs get that much better.
 

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When I did listening tests with MP3 in the past, my conclusion was that 128 kbs and up are similar in audio quality. I was able to tell 256 apart from 128 kbs, but it was subtle.


Those are stereo rates, so I would say rates of over 64 kbs / channel are pretty good.


640 kbs would be between 106 and 128 kbs (approximately) per channel. That's pretty good, IMO.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelJHuman /forum/post/18133458


When I did listening tests with MP3 in the past, my conclusion was that 128 kbs and up are similar in audio quality. I was able to tell 256 apart from 128 kbs, but it was subtle.


Those are stereo rates, so I would say rates of over 64 kbs / channel are pretty good.


640 kbs would be between 106 and 128 kbs (approximately) per channel. That's pretty good, IMO.

I hear you Michael, pun intended.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corpsman /forum/post/18131661


Please bare with me for making a second post on this but I simply asked the wrong question and did not provide enough information in the original post and I am afraid it will be overlooked now.


The basic question is, 'Do I NEED to replace my current AVR'?

If you like/love blue leds lighting up when your receiver recognizes the TrueHD and dts-MA bitstream, then the answer is a resounding yes!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyaspie /forum/post/18133326


Of course they do, the mind is a powerful thing.



Just kidding. With all due respect, the listening tests they participated in were under controlled circumstances at Dolby and dts laboratories. With that being said, both Dolby and dts have some interest in there actually being hugh differences. Obviously not as big an interest as the component manufacturers, but some interest just the same. Yet these huge differences were not detected, at best small differences were distinguished.


When you think about it, that is a testament to how good the legacy codecs really are. Then when you toss in the HBRs obtained by BluRay, the legacy codecs get that much better.

It amazes me how one article can be touted as the "be all end all" statement.



I'm saying that there are differences that can be discerened going from lossy to lossless. I'm not saying they are huge. We don't all have access to the original masters either to make a try useful comparison between the two. IMO it's sort of a moot point for any one buying a new receiver. The argument only comes up when some one is considering getting rid of an old receiver. At some point the old receiver will be tossed any way.



I'm also glad that I have a set up that can allow me to discern some of differences and at least really get immersed in watching a good blu-ray.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv /forum/post/18133915


I'm also glad that I have a set up that can allow me to discern some of differences and at least really get immersed in watching a good blu-ray.

Maybe you do, maybe you don't. To be truthful, comments like your's complete with the smarta** eye roll tell me that you don't "really get immersed in watching a good blu-ray". You worry too much about the small details.


BTW, a test done at the facilities mentioned above is infinitely more credible than anything done in your home.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyaspie /forum/post/18134014


Maybe you do, maybe you don't. To be truthful, comments like your's complete with the smarta** eye roll tell me that you don't "really get immersed in watching a good blu-ray". You worry too much about the small details.


BTW, a test done at the facilities mentioned above is infinitely more credible than anything done in your home.

Honestly, I really don't worry too much about it. I spend more time enjoying it.
Maybe you should too. Look I've read that dang article at least ten times OK....Like you are some big authority just cause you can post a link to it. LOL!!!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by croseiv /forum/post/18134034


Honestly, I really don't worry too much about it. I spend more time enjoying it.
Maybe you should too. Look I've read that dang article at least ten times OK....Like you are some big authority just cause you can post a link to it. LOL!!!

It's too bad that you're read it at least 10 times but are still unable to understand it or refuse to believe it. Maybe 1 more time will get it to sink in.



I am glad that you enjoy lossless. I do as well, but the biggest improvement BluRay offers is picture quality.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyaspie /forum/post/18134103


It's too bad that you're read it at least 10 times but are still unable to understand it or refuse to believe it. Maybe 1 more time will get it to sink in.



I am glad that you enjoy lossless. I do as well, but the biggest improvement BluRay offers is picture quality.

Move on please, and quit spouting insults.
 

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if you can stretch the budget a twinge look into the marantz 6003 refub (or even 5003) at accessories4less. it'll do everything you want it to--i recently got one myself and I have to say I have been more impressed by this than any other avr I have used in a longtime. keep in mind to use audyssey youll need to use your slim to send pcm but Im doing that with a sony 5000 and it works extremely well. from the tone of your post I infer that you are not happy with your current setup--I DO think you can find some good options in your price range. happy hunting
 
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