[convexion]

Okay, I know there's a few posts about this but I wanted to start something definitive. Maybe if we can get enough people complaining about it we can get some action. (Don't hold your breath, this is ATi after all.

)


Anyway, I still haven't been able to get any form of deinterlacing besides Bob and Weave with any version of the Catalyst drivers. It's apparent when watching media that the card isn't performing any decent deinterlacing as well. I watched a couple of Blu-Rays for testing purposes and jaggies abound.


So how many of us are out there with this problem? Clearly we have a driver issue here and it doesn't seem like anyone at ATi is going to address this anytime soon.

 

[walford]

Since blue rays are recorded in 1080p/24 no de-interlacing is required. Are you sure you are getting jaggies and not judder?

Of course if you are outputting to a display or HDTV using 1080i then the display is the one de-interlacing.

 

[convexion]

Whatever it is I'm seeing stair-stepping which looks like aliasing on everything that should be smooth and angled. Like stair-case rails in Edward Scissorhands. Those are terribly jagged. I've switched between a 4850 and this 4650 and the 4850 produces a much better image using the same drivers (Cat 8.12).


I guess it could be a problem with 3:2 pulldown. Either way the 4650 isn't doing what it should be.

 

[walford]

3:2 pulldown does not elimintae judder it just reduces it.

What resolution are you sending to your display?

 

[convexion]

I've tried both 720p and 1080i and both have the same exact problem. This is all with hardware acceleration enabled. As soon as I disable HW acceleration the jaggies go away. This definitely has something specific to do with the 4650 and I don't think it's judder. Pans are smooth, there's no problem with stuttering, and lip-sync is fine. It's just the aliasing or moire I guess that's the problem in this case.


As I said before, with the 4850 the problem was never present and it has the adaptive antialiasing options available in CCC. I really think this has to do with deinterlacing even if it is 1080p material.

 

[politby]



Quote:
Originally Posted by convexion /forum/post/15520990


I've tried both 720p and 1080i and both have the same exact problem. This is all with hardware acceleration enabled. As soon as I disable HW acceleration the jaggies go away. This definitely has something specific to do with the 4650 and I don't think it's judder. Pans are smooth, there's no problem with stuttering, and lip-sync is fine. It's just the aliasing or moire I guess that's the problem in this case.


As I said before, with the 4850 the problem was never present and it has the adaptive antialiasing options available in CCC. I really think this has to do with deinterlacing even if it is 1080p material.

I have the Sapphire 4650 with 512MB DDR3 and native HDMI port. It works great for HD, just like the 4850 I first used - which I replaced with a 4350 because it was needed in a different PC. The 4350 didn't have the performance I needed so I now have the 4650.


However, I'm not happy with the picture quality with SD television - I think there's still some tweaking I can do but over all it's no better than my STB and I would have expected better (this is with European DVB-T 576i broadcasts). It is also no better than the 4350.


When I had the 4850 I did not use the HTPC as a TV source so I can't compare the 4650 to the 4650.


I'm interested in finding out what I can do to improve the 4650's SD quality.


/politby

 

[walford]

I would have expected that your SDB would provide better up scaling to your display then the PC card would.

What resolution are you using over what interface to what native resolution display.

 

[politby]



Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/15526046


I would have expected that your SDB would provide better up scaling to your display then the PC card would.

What resolution are you using over what interface to what native resolution display.

The 4650 sends 1920x1080p @60Hz resolution over HDMI to a Samsung PS50A556 plasma display (native 1080p resolution).


The set top box is a Topfield 5710PVR that upscales from 576i @50Hz to 1080i (not sure what the refresh rate is but probably original) over HDMI to the display.


So the STB upscales to 1080i while it lets the display do the deinterlacing, while the HTPC sends an already de-interlaced signal to the display.


Here's a screen shot from Media Center. The not-so-good deinterlacing should be pretty obvious. CCC is set to adaptive vector de-interlacing, de-noise and edge enhancement both set to "off".

 

[walford]

The STB first de-iinterlaces the SD input first since it can not scale interlaced video and after it has upscaled it it interlaces it for output over 1080i.

Which is why I suspect that the STB is doing a better job of upscaling then the PC

 

[convexion]

Come on, I know there is more of you out there than this. Here's some other threads detailing these issues:



Drivers for 4650?

HD4650: few deinterlacing options/fan control

 

[convexion]

Alright, this thread isn't getting a lot of traction. I suppose not many of us bought this specific card revision and also have Vista. Ever since I posted this thread I've been working towards getting the deinterlacing options to appear. Nothing has changed. I've tried clean driver installs ranging from the 8.5 series all the way to 8.12. I've tried registry hacks. I've tried swapping ports. I've tried everything I can think of.


I'm no spring chicken at this either, I've been doing on site PC tech support for well over a decade and it's my job to deal with this type of stuff. But I've never come across a problem quite like this where I haven't been able to find a single solution that works. The only conclusion I've come to is that this 4650 (a Powercolor 512mb version) is a giant steaming pile and so is ATI's support. The only tip they had for me was to reinstall the drivers even though, you guessed it, I made mention in my ticket that I had installed various drivers umpteen gazillion times. It really shouldn't be this hard.


So I'm posting this as a warning to anyone else considering combining a 4650 and Vista 32 that if you're expecting advanced deinterlacing you might not get what you paid for. Me, I'm done with this. I'm returning this card and putting in a 4850 since that model actually works. Too bad it costs twice as much and is as loud as a jet engine. Not to mention it isn't low profile so good luck with decent aftermarket cooling in an HTPC case. Sigh.

 

[pacemaker]

hi

i have started another thread with a simular problem here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1110529


i do not see any problem with deinterlacing put with inverse telecine

have a read

 

[convexion]

Hmm, yeah I believe we're not seeing the same issue but it's most definitely caused by the same type of problem. i.e. terrible driver support. In my case I don't get shimmering, but really nasty stairstepping and tearing. It's very apparent when watching a standard DVD. I'm sure those of us who remember watching DVDs when it was brand new with FFDShow know that look. Really jagged pans.


It's something specific to these 4650s. My next step was to find a replacement BIOS for the card but so far I haven't turned up any. I took a look at mvktech but no joy. Hopefully if enough attention comes down on this issue we'll get some decent help from ATi but don't hold your breath.

 

[Rigby Reardon]

FYI, there is already a thread dedicated to this issue:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...php?p=15269426

Quote:
Originally Posted by convexion /forum/post/15603569


Alright, this thread isn't getting a lot of traction. I suppose not many of us bought this specific card revision and also have Vista. Ever since I posted this thread I've been working towards getting the deinterlacing options to appear. Nothing has changed. I've tried clean driver installs ranging from the 8.5 series all the way to 8.12. I've tried registry hacks. I've tried swapping ports. I've tried everything I can think of.

Have you tried the driver from this page:

http://www.xpertvision.com/main/down...ate=vga&id=179


That's the only one that enables the advanced options for me. None of the official Catalyst drivers works though. I agree that ATI's driver policy for the 4650 sucks. If you look for a Vista/32 driver on their homepage, you end up at a "not found" page; in the Vista/64 section, the 4650 isn't even listed. It's as if they are disowning the cards, leaving their customers holding the bag ...

 

[convexion]

Thanks Rigby, you're the man. I ended up downloading 8.10 RC2 from the guru3d forums and that did the trick. I now have the options available in the CCC and upon viewing some material deinterlacing appears to be working! So anyone having this issue, the only driver that's going to work it seems is 8.10 RC2. It MUST be RC2! I tried regular 8.10 before and that doesn't work.


That's a big relief for me. Looks like I won't have to send the card back now, though I'm still plenty peeved that we have to go through this much BS just to get deinterlacing functional.

 

[pacemaker]

failed to find the 8.10 RC

is that xp?

i need a vista 32 one

editit found it!

didn't work :-(

 

[convexion]

Pacemaker, make sure you're using RC2, it's very important to use RC2. Here's a direct link to where I downloaded the proper driver:

Guru3D Forum



Also, make sure you're using a good video decoder. I've tried PDVD, TMT, CoreAVC, and some others and I've settled on the TMT decoder. It does an excellent job with DXVA once there are proper drivers installed for the 4650.

 

[Rigby Reardon]



Quote:
Originally Posted by pacemaker /forum/post/15610849


failed to find the 8.10 RC

is that xp?

i need a vista 32 one

editit found it!

didn't work :-(

It's the same driver that is available on the Xpertvision site that I linked above (Xpertvision is the maker of one of the affected 4650 cards).

 

[pacemaker]



Quote:
Originally Posted by convexion /forum/post/15612230


Pacemaker, make sure you're using RC2, it's very important to use RC2. Here's a direct link to where I downloaded the proper driver:

Guru3D Forum



Also, make sure you're using a good video decoder. I've tried PDVD, TMT, CoreAVC, and some others and I've settled on the TMT decoder. It does an excellent job with DXHA once there are proper drivers installed for the 4650.

yes thats the one i tried

am trying a clean install of xp and the original manufactures drivers then will try the rc2 version of xp too

wish me luck

 

[politby]



Quote:
Originally Posted by convexion /forum/post/15605335


Thanks Rigby, you're the man. I ended up downloading 8.10 RC2 from the guru3d forums and that did the trick. I now have the options available in the CCC and upon viewing some material deinterlacing appears to be working! So anyone having this issue, the only driver that's going to work it seems is 8.10 RC2. It MUST be RC2! I tried regular 8.10 before and that doesn't work.


That's a big relief for me. Looks like I won't have to send the card back now, though I'm still plenty peeved that we have to go through this much BS just to get deinterlacing functional.

Hmm. With my Sapphire 4650 I have all the CCC options. But even with vector adaptive activated in CCC I get bad (no?) deinterlacing. It does not seem to make any difference which setting I use. Wonder if the 8.10 rc2 drivers would fix my problem?