AVS Forum banner

Which Radeon HD do you own?

2121 - 2140 of 6505 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,914 Posts
UPDATE: this is quite a bit out of date, and some things have been fixed. With 8.3-8-5, I find the only absolutely necessary is to standardise levels with UseBT601CSC=1, and the acceleration fixes if you use dual screens. Use others only to correct specific problems - it does vary with different cards and OS's.


UPDATE2: if you have an AGP card, even this lot of tweaks might not fix things. Unfortunately, there are a bundle of problems with agp cards, and it's just pure luck if they work or not.


UPDATE3: with 8.8 2600+dual monitors can be made to accelerate all again. Set vforceuvdcd1 & vforceuvdh264 to 1, and dxva_nohddecode to zero.




Useful app to apply tweaks:
http://exdeus.home.comcast.net/ati-hd2x00/


Quick way to apply individual ones in the right place:
http://bluesky23.hp.infoseek.co.jp/DXVAChecker_1810.zip


(run the app, right-click any of the listings in the top box, driver settings, change stuff, OK, reboot if in XP)



LIST OF REG TWEAKS:


The "UseBT601CSC"="1" driver expands SD levels, the same way as HD is expanded automatically by the drivers, giving you 0-255, aka PC levels. If you want the original 16-235 (video levels) then go into CCC/avivo video/basic colour and turn "use application settings" off, brightness to 16, contrast 86 - pretty much exactly reversing the expansion. Note that in Vista EVR will always expand, and so will VMR9 with hardware acceleration. However, VMR9 without acceleration will not expand at start, and neither will the CCC colour controls work, until you manually move a colour control via the likes of procamp. (this isn't a fix though, because when it doesn't expand it gets moody and instead resorts to screwing the colours).


Note that this can create a problem with HD 720p material that has a wider aspect ratio than 16/9, and has a vertical resolution less than 720 lines (eg mkv 720p at 2.4:1 gives resolution of 1280*533 if encoded without black bars). These are encoded with standard HD bt709, but the card thinks that all
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,485 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster /forum/post/11658213


The above article only tells us what we already know: that ATI's drivers are a joke. There's a reason why all these tweaks exist :)

I couldn't agree more, and to add something, I wouldn't take resolution tips from someone who says something like this:
Quote:
To repeat myself a third time, the Blu-ray edition is four times sharper than the DVD release.

960p has only the potential for twice the resolution than 480p. 1080p is only a bit more than 2X the resolution. Many confuse number of pixels with resolution because of the "megapixel race" in digital cameras, but resolution only goes in one dimension. So OK, maybe it could be forgiven if the word he used was "resolution", but "four times sharper"? That's just plain wrong.


And I say "potential" because with all 1080p movies I've seen that came from a 35mm film source, the reality is that at that point the resolution limiting factor is either the lens (you can actually see the aberrations) or the source film itself. You can tell how much more resolution potential 1080p has by viewing movies that either were done totally in a computer (like CG animated "toy-story-clone" movies) or one like Corpse Bride, which was done with Canon 1D Mark II cameras (8 megapixel digital SLRs), whose source resolution is a great deal higher than the final output, hence all the equipment required (lenses, processing equipment, etc) outresolves a 1080p image.


So because of this, while most movies' resolution will indeed be limited by 480p, also most won't be limited by 1080p (they'll already be limited at that point), so the actual "sharpness" difference would be less than 2X, in my opinion for those movies. Maybe the Pirates of the Caribbean 3 (or King Kong) movies, as they're new and high-budget (much better source material) will approach being limited by 1080p, but even in that case it's only 2X, or a little over 2X "sharpness" over DVD.


So yes, the "up to 6X resolution than DVD" line coming from HD-DVD (or is it bluray?) is super-ultra ********.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
48 Posts
with ati mpeg decoder (kmp, dxva mode (superspeed), xp, vmr9)




what do you think?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,593 Posts
Just got an AGP Visionteck 2600PRO installed in ECS 848P-A motherboard. I tried the 8.4 drivers from Visionteck's web site and also the one on the included CD. In both cases the install process seems to go OK and eventually asks to reboot the computer but when Windows restarts no drivers are installed. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks John
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,101 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster /forum/post/11659897


Here's a little updated list of regtweaks and known bugs/solutions for the 2400/2600, in XP and Vista. Ex_deus is doing a little vbs script to automate this, and this is the accompanying little spiel so it's clear what each change does.

Thanks for the definitive list: it's much appreciated.


However, with a 2400Pro Catalyst 7.7 (with all your tweaks) XP PowerDVD 7.3.2911 and hardware acceleration enabled, changing Brightness, Contrast, Digital Vibrance or Fleshtone in CCC Avivo Video has absolutely no effect that I can see. The tweaks exist because the Digital Vibrance and Fleshtone sliders now appear in CCC and I have confirmed them in registry (and I have rebooted).


If I alter Brightness in CCC Avivo Video with hardware acceleration disabled, I immediately see the brightening effect (and I expect the other controls will work as well).


I now don't trust that any of the CCC controls are actually getting used by PowerDVD in the way they were intended when in hardware acceleration mode on my particular setup.


Anyone have any ideas on why this might be so?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,914 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD /forum/post/11661005


However, with a 2400Pro Catalyst 7.7 (with all your tweaks) XP PowerDVD 7.3.2911 and hardware acceleration enabled, changing Brightness, Contrast, Digital Vibrance or Fleshtone in CCC Avivo Video has absolutely no effect that I can see.


Hrrrrrm. Might be that XP PDVD's renderer (overlay was always presumed) isn't affected by system colour controls when acceleration is on, in the same way vmr9 isn't in Vista if you disable mixer mode. Whatever routine on the card that is used for colour manipulation simply isn't working as a result. Just checked and Vista PDVD is instantly affected by any CCC colour change, but that's probably cos it uses EVR.


Do PDVD's internal colour controls do anything?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
117 Posts
Hello


My Vista 32 Install with the HD2600 is showing the DI_METHOD entry to be binary instead of a String. Should I delete the binary value and create a string?


Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,478 Posts
OK, now I am running the official ati catalyst drivers 7.7 and Cyberlink Power DVD 7.3. I again have HD DVD running, but only with the VGA output and coax spdif to the receiver.


It appears that the card does not like me having both the HDMI and the VGA connected simultaneously. Everything went more smoothly when I "turn off" the HDMI connection in the receiver control panel.


Is this a common issue...that one can not have the HDMI and VGA active simultaneously? Is there a way in software to alternate between the two; or do I physically have to disconnect the VGA in order to experiment with the HDMI?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by originalsnuffy /forum/post/11662510


Is there a way in software to alternate between the two; or do I physically have to disconnect the VGA in order to experiment with the HDMI?

Personally I am using profiles in CCC to enable 'Primary' display only. Switching between displays can be done by setting hot keys. Don't know if this will help your problem, though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
276 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster /forum/post/11659897


The "UseBT601CSC"="1" driver expands SD levels, the same way as HD is expanded automatically by the drivers.

Do you, or somebody else know if this affects something else also? 601 colorspace apparently is SD colourspace and living in PAL land with some HD available it makes me a little worried.


Also I don't seem to get too much level difference without it, should check it with irfanview, I guess.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,914 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by karrih /forum/post/11664283


Do you, or somebody else know if this affects something else also? 601 colorspace apparently is SD colourspace and living in PAL land with some HD available it makes me a little worried.

I checked and it uses BT709 (aka HD color space) over 720 lines vertical, regardless of what this setting is at. You can check with the patterns at http://www.w6rz.net/ .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,101 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster /forum/post/11661199


Hrrrrrm. Might be that XP PDVD's renderer (overlay was always presumed) isn't affected by system colour controls when acceleration is on, in the same way vmr9 isn't in Vista if you disable mixer mode. Whatever routine on the card that is used for colour manipulation simply isn't working as a result. Just checked and Vista PDVD is instantly affected by any CCC colour change, but that's probably cos it uses EVR.


Do PDVD's internal colour controls do anything?

PDVD's internal colour controls work regardless of hardware acceleration status, so I can at least adjust basic settings (but not more advanced tweaking like fleshtone or vibrance if required), but I was following the tweak guide which suggests adjusting Avivo Colour for Brightness=16 and Contrast=86 to transparently offset the ATI level expansion and I can't do that in hardware acceleration mode via Avivo globally.


It's almost as though I have ticked the "use application controls" in Avivo Colour settings, when in hardware acceleration mode in PDVD, to disable the Avivo controls; but it's definitely unticked.


I also have a suspicion that modifying the Brightness setting in Avivo Colour and applying, when in PDVD acceleration mode, was reset back to 0 when CCC was opened the next time.


It would be most unfortunate if PDVD somehow disables all Avivo Colour settings in favour of its own internal settings (which we may not know about or have control over), when in acceleration mode. I wonder if this might explain de-interlacing results which aren't as one would expect from the Avivo settings.


I understand that I can implement EVR in XP by installing .NET3, but I'm wondering if PDVD would use this.


I think I would prefer to run in software decode mode, to get access to all the Avivo controls, but I need the hardware acceleration for smooth playback: caught between a rock and a hard place again.


Please, just give me directshow HD audio decoders so I can use the WMV9 decoder (which gives perfect levels BTW, without expansion and at low CPU) and bypass all this PDVD crap.



Incidentally, the http://www.war6z.net/ link returns a server not found error.


[UPDATE 1: I was sure that Avivo Colour settings in CCC were working with hardware acceleration disabled, but I've tested it again and the Brightness control does not do anything in Avivo, regardless of whether acceleration is disabled or not. However, the PDVD colour controls work for accelerated or unaccelerated. This is nuts!]


[Update 2: The 100% CPU load for C2D 2.8GHz with PDVD in software decode mode is almost completely due to the PowerDVD.exe process; no other process is using more than a few % at any one time. Memory load is around 560MB with PDVD running and 230MB with PDVD not running (1GB single channel RAM).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,914 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD /forum/post/11664438


[UPDATE 1: I was sure that Avivo Colour settings in CCC were working with hardware acceleration disabled, but I've tested it again and the Brightness control does not do anything in Avivo, regardless of whether acceleration is disabled or not. However, the PDVD colour controls work for accelerated or unaccelerated. This is nuts!]

Unfortunate side effect of the way PDVD works perhaps - all those security restrictions mean it can't just use plain vmr9. If I've got time later I'll plug in my disk with the XP install.


Quote:
[Update 2: The 100% CPU load for C2D 2.8GHz with PDVD in software decode mode is almost completely due to the PowerDVD.exe process;

Now that's definitely a PDVD fault, but I've absolutely no idea what. On a 2.8ghz it shouldn't ever go over 50% with h264, and perhaps half that with VC1.



Edit: fixed the link, it's www.w6rz.net , I always typo that :)


Borked installation perhaps? (Cyberlink have a long history of install/uninstall problems). Could explain some of your other issues too.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
22 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster /forum/post/11664364


I checked and it uses BT709 (aka HD color space) over 720 lines vertical, regardless of what this setting is at. You can check with the patterns at www.war6z.net .

What about SD? What color space is then used? I checked this using the same clip with ffdshow's resize and result is identical for both SD and HD (more than 720 lines vertically). Have you checked that for SD 601 is used?


BTW switching from SD and HD using vertical size of the image is clearly wrong. Since HD can be only 16/9 then more correct would be horizontal size more or equal 1280. Some clips are in 2.35:1 ratio and then they have horizontal size of 1280 but vertical 544 and drivers use SD conversion. For example for apple trailers it results in different colors for 1080p than for 720p version.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,914 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by wozio /forum/post/11664502


What about SD? What color space is then used? I checked this using the same clip with ffdshow's resize and result is identical for both SD and HD (more than 720 lines vertically). Have you checked that for SD 601 is used?

Pretty sure I did, yes. If you're using ffdshow you're killing dxva though, so may be changing its behaviour (although EVR will still expand).


Quote:
BTW switching from SD and HD using vertical size of the image is clearly wrong. Since HD can be only 16/9 then more correct would be horizontal size more or equal 1280. Some clips are in 2.35:1 ratio and then they have horizontal size of 1280 but vertical 544 and drivers use SD conversion. For example for apple trailers it results in different colors for 1080p than for 720p version.


Yeah, didn't check that - I don't have any content in 720p (we only use 1080i and 576i over here).


Quick clarification though: the 720 line thing I was thinking of was the expansion boundary. I don't know how it decides between 601 and 709.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,914 Posts
Checked and the 720 vertical boundary is the line between 601 and 709 after all (was just an assumption before). However, brightness/contrast in CCC also uses the same 720 line boundary so recontraction is done back to the original perfectly.


Bit irritating if you watch 1280*550ish bt709 stuff at PC levels I guess, you get some truly weird colours. Unfortunately, expansion is never going to be without some problems, which is why I detest it so much.


Thanks for bringing this up - I'll add a note to the tweak guide. Possibly this might not be a massive problem for Vista users as most 1280*550ish content is going to be mkv files, which don't get accelerated anyway. If you play these via a separate VMR9 player as I do (since hardware acceleration with EVR stalls at startup with mkv x264), then neither the expansion nor recontraction ever happen in the first place (vmr9 software mode seems to break colour controls).


Not sure about XP though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,101 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster /forum/post/11664491


Unfortunate side effect of the way PDVD works perhaps - all those security restrictions mean it can't just use plain vmr9. If I've got time later I'll plug in my disk with the XP install.


Now that's definitely a PDVD fault, but I've absolutely no idea what. On a 2.8ghz it shouldn't ever go over 50% with h264, and perhaps half that with VC1.


Borked installation perhaps? (Cyberlink have a long history of install/uninstall problems). Could explain some of your other issues too.

The fact that Avivo Colour controls don't work for PDVD doesn't concern me greatly (since PDVD has working colour controls, albeit basic and with no Vibrancy or Fleshtone adjustment) except for the possibility that the de-interlacing settings might also be negated: what does PDVD use then?


As for borked installation, I have had this issue since the first PDVD 7.3 release and with each patch since. On one of the updates I went through the registry by hand, removing every PDVD or Cyberlink occurrance I could find, but it still didn't help. I think the 2911 update was standalone rather than a patch. It's still a possibility I suppose, but I don't like the idea of having to completely re-install XP to find out.


Just played the King Kong feature evo with Haali splitter and WMV9 decoder: CPU load of 55% compared with over 90% for PDVD software decode. This is curious, because I recall the same file played the same way with a 8500GT was around 25%. Great: another influence of the 2400Pro.


It's all becoming too difficult and maybe that's what the studios want.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
27 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by originalsnuffy /forum/post/11638260


Luar--I am tempted to revert back a few revs of drivers myself. I keep getting PowerDVD crashes under vista with the HD DVD player.


Is there an arfster pack for 7.6 also?

I know you found it already, but for other people who may want to try it out, this is Richard Berg's post (finally I can post links!!)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=253


Which has links to his page where the 7.6 drivers (tweaked by Arfster) still are. I went back to these and they still are the best for me.


I don't have time for all this. But I would never have the board running if it weren't for you guys and your wisdom
, blargh to the joke driver that ATI provides.



Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,914 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by IanD /forum/post/11664568


The fact that Avivo Colour controls don't work for PDVD doesn't concern me greatly (since PDVD has working colour controls, albeit basic and with no Vibrancy or Fleshtone adjustment) except for the possibility that the de-interlacing settings might also be negated: what does PDVD use then?

The deinterlacing is a separate element - as I remember XP PDVD behaved OK for that (unlike Vista). That was with 3104 and 7.7 though.


Quote:
Just played the King Kong feature evo with Haali splitter and WMV9 decoder: CPU load of 55% compared with over 90% for PDVD software decode. This is curious, because I recall the same file played the same way with a 8500GT was around 25%. Great: another influence of the 2400Pro.

Is all VC1 like this? I just ran a disc on a e6400 box (2.13ghz) and it's using 35% or so in software mode. Same with the WMV decoder.


The difference between the two might be some heavy interactive element is being processed in PDVD disc mode, that wouldn't get touched by a directshow chain outside it (it'll just get ignored). The graphics card can't really do anything about this - it can't accelerate nongraphics stuff after all :)


By the way, if the reason you're not using 3104 is because you want to maintain software mode, you can break acceleration via the registry key HWUVD_DisableVC1.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,101 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster /forum/post/11664664


Is all VC1 like this? I just ran a disc on a e6400 box (2.13ghz) and it's using 35% or so in software mode. Same with the WMV decoder.

VC-1 is supposed to be very easy to decode compared to H.264, which is why Nvidia didn't provide full UVD decode for VC-1 in their latest GPUs. I think most VC-1 titles should be about the same, since they can only fit so much on a dual layer HD-DVD and that means a bitrate limit. I've noticed that Elizabeth seems to take more CPU than King Kong, so probably the average bitrate is a little higher.


For some reason, my system is using more CPU than it should for software decode in PDVD and I need to find a way around this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster /forum/post/11664664


The difference between the two might be some heavy interactive element is being processed in PDVD disc mode, that wouldn't get touched by a directshow chain outside it (it'll just get ignored). The graphics card can't really do anything about this - it can't accelerate nongraphics stuff after all :)

I was wondering whether PDVD was processing IME or other material, even though it wasn't displaying it in software mode, but then that wouldn't explain why I'm about the only one with these high CPU loadings.


Oh for a simple directshow graph I can just open in MPC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arfster /forum/post/11664664


By the way, if the reason you're not using 3104 is because you want to maintain software mode, you can break acceleration via the registry key HWUVD_DisableVC1.

I didn't know this: thanks for the heads-up.


Actually, HA works acceptably at least for the main features, but has an edge enhanced look about it that is offputting. But if it means I can at least watch my HD-DVDs, I will put up with it for now.


Are there any other registry keys I should know about?
 
2121 - 2140 of 6505 Posts
Top