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Following are three pics with notes showing scoped settings with TT2 and overlay. These show the Pluge with white and reverse greyscale ramps from DVE. My system is PAL, if it matters.
ATI Radeon Scoped Settings with TT2 Overlay
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Pluge with white shows the small negative going step that is below black sitting on the 0V line, and white (which appears to be 235) at about 700mV. Note the two small steps that are just above black. The reverse greyscale shows a full ramp with no clipping at either end.
On screen video settings are Gamma = 0 Brightness = 50 Contrast = -11
On screen video settings are Gamma = 0 Brightness = 50 Contrast = -11
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Pluge with white shows the black sitting on the 0V line, and white at about 700mV. The reverse greyscale shows a ramp with no clipping of white.
On screen video settings are Gamma = 0 Brightness = 0 Contrast = -8
On screen video settings are Gamma = 0 Brightness = 0 Contrast = -8
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Pluge with white shows the black sitting on the 0V line, and white at about 700mV. The reverse greyscale shows a ramp with white clipped at 235.
On screen video settings are Gamma = 0 Brightness = 0 Contrast = -3
On screen video settings are Gamma = 0 Brightness = 0 Contrast = -3
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9600... I think the results are likely to be consistent across a range of ATI cards... except maybe the white clip point depending on hardware issues that may vary. Practically though these should work well for most.
To compare, here is another user's (Eiffel) scoped Radeon settings from the TT forum:
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Interesting that gazzagazza's 'full range' settings correspond with these settings for a 7.5IRE display. Thats backwards, unless I'm not wrapping my brain around this (and this is one issue I frequently lose touch with! 
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| Best results for IRE 7.5 displays and Overlay: Brightness at 91 (not too sensitive), Contrast -11 (fairly sensitive) (these numbers are TT video settings)-- FYI, I read a post where someone suggested B=83 and C=-10 which is pretty close to my measurements... This person has good eyes and a well calibrated display. Best settings for IRE 7.5 displays and VMR9 (After having set the ATI control panel to its default values for gamma, contrast and brightness): B=17,C= -8 Best results for IRE 0 displays and overlay : Brightness at -8 (from -9 to -7 is pretty good), and Contrast at +2 (these numbers are TT video settings) Best results for IRE 0 displays and VMR9 : Brightness at -9 and Contrast at +4 -- thus very similar results to the overlay (probably within the error range for these types of measurements). |
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Gamma seems to not affect the settings at all. On TT2 the first gamma step is at about 34, I ran it up to over 100 and the scoped settings didn't move at black or white, just as you would expect only the ramps curvature altered.
| Originally posted by pasey25 gazzadazza, what is the effect on the others if your display requires a bump of gamma by one step? |
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The important thing is to ensure that you are getting from your card a signal that is not clipped at either end. Also a signal that maximises the dynamic range. The scope pictures show where to set the controls to achieve that. Most digital display devices will be happy with the settings in the second or third examples. Once you have that set you can alter gamma (I have mine set to 34 - the first step) and then do all other calibration using DVE, AVIA, etc only at the display device.
Any substantial deviation from the settings in the examples will loose either black or white detail. There is some debate about how important it is to maintain headroom at either end of the range. My scope tells me there is often above white (ie 235 - 255) but rarely below black. I set my 9600 to just lose below black and to not clip above white. On the DVE reverse greyscale, on the projected screen Title 12 Ch 14 you can see all steps in white. On the Pluge with white on the projected screen below black is just merged into the background black. The other just above black bars are just, only just, visible.
| Originally posted by Rich L Do you suggest we change our TT2 to these settings and then calibrate our TV using VE or Avia? |
Any substantial deviation from the settings in the examples will loose either black or white detail. There is some debate about how important it is to maintain headroom at either end of the range. My scope tells me there is often above white (ie 235 - 255) but rarely below black. I set my 9600 to just lose below black and to not clip above white. On the DVE reverse greyscale, on the projected screen Title 12 Ch 14 you can see all steps in white. On the Pluge with white on the projected screen below black is just merged into the background black. The other just above black bars are just, only just, visible.
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Eiffel's 7.5IRE results agree with what I have shown above.
His IRE 0 results will lose the two small above black steps and hence some low level black detail, and the C=+2 setting will almost definitely clip above white at 235 and most likely lose the step below that. I'd like to see the scope pictures for those settings and what the reverse greyscale looks like.
I have found the on my display (L300U PJ) the overlay B & C settings also work for VMR9. Eiffel has noted this as well.
| Originally posted by kromkamp To compare, here is another user's (Eiffel) scoped Radeon settings from the TT forum: Interesting that gazzagazza's 'full range' settings correspond with these settings for a 7.5IRE display. Thats backwards, unless I'm not wrapping my brain around this (and this is one issue I frequently lose touch with! ) |
His IRE 0 results will lose the two small above black steps and hence some low level black detail, and the C=+2 setting will almost definitely clip above white at 235 and most likely lose the step below that. I'd like to see the scope pictures for those settings and what the reverse greyscale looks like.
I have found the on my display (L300U PJ) the overlay B & C settings also work for VMR9. Eiffel has noted this as well.
gazzagazza, I'm waiting on receiving the new version of DVE (mine is 5 years old and doesn't have above white signals).
In the meantime, some of the variations between our respective settings are likely to be within manufacturing limits: Using the AVIA patterns, I can definitly see the two small above black steps... barely, but they show on my scope. The linear ramps in AVIA show very nicely (even when zoomed on my scope to the point where I can see the impact of the D/A converters on the video card). I'm one notch below white clipping, which means that I probably can't see the entire 235-255 range before the card clips... which is an acceptable compromise with me LCD projector.
I'll try to post some pictures of what the patterns look like once I get avia (I have an analog scope and no digital camera, so getting a good picture is somewhat involved ), but I'll say that it looks very much like your second picture.
Now, on how to call these settings, I don't know what the right answer is. Basically, with my IRE7.5 settings, IRE7.5 (NTSC Black) corresponds to a 0.54mV signal... which should be ideal for North American NTSC monitors. the IRE 0 setting sends a 0.0mV signal in the same conditions, which should be perfect for computer displays and data projectors... I also believe that it should be perfect for PAL displays and ADTV monitors for which IRE 0 is black, but not below black.
Eiffel
In the meantime, some of the variations between our respective settings are likely to be within manufacturing limits: Using the AVIA patterns, I can definitly see the two small above black steps... barely, but they show on my scope. The linear ramps in AVIA show very nicely (even when zoomed on my scope to the point where I can see the impact of the D/A converters on the video card). I'm one notch below white clipping, which means that I probably can't see the entire 235-255 range before the card clips... which is an acceptable compromise with me LCD projector.
I'll try to post some pictures of what the patterns look like once I get avia (I have an analog scope and no digital camera, so getting a good picture is somewhat involved
), but I'll say that it looks very much like your second picture.Now, on how to call these settings, I don't know what the right answer is. Basically, with my IRE7.5 settings, IRE7.5 (NTSC Black) corresponds to a 0.54mV signal... which should be ideal for North American NTSC monitors. the IRE 0 setting sends a 0.0mV signal in the same conditions, which should be perfect for computer displays and data projectors... I also believe that it should be perfect for PAL displays and ADTV monitors for which IRE 0 is black, but not below black.
Eiffel
I have an ATI 9600 (non pro.) Using the VGA output. I want to optimize the video settings on the ATI control panel and may not end up using TheaterTek to play back DVDs. If I am using Zoom Player or another player, how can I translate the settings posted here for use in the ATi control panel? I know all the settings discussed say to leave the ATI stuff (gamma, brightness, contrast) at default and use the TT controls, but I may prefer to use other players. Has anyone scoped the output of the ATI and adjusted it in the ATI "color" tab on the advanced display properties settings? My defaults there are 1.0 gamma, 0 brightness, 100 contrast. Not sure how these relate to the ATI tab "overlay settings" (which can only be adjusted when video is playing IIRC.) Also, I assume if I decide to use VMR7 or 9 in Zoom Player instead of overlay, the ATI overlay settings are not applicable, but I would think the ATI color tab gamma/brightness/contrast settings would still be in the loop. So how do I best adjust them? I will eventually scope the card myself, but for now am looking for a starting point to see if anyone has scoped the ATI 9600 or similar/ Catalyst drivers outside of TheaterTek.
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I haven't tried it, but I wonder if you have Theatertek and set the video as noted in this thread, then with it in Windowed mode open the ATI control panel and see if the ATI controls have moved from their defaults. It may be that while TT is running it takes control, and then allows them to return to their previous settings when it exits?
| Originally posted by mikemav I have an ATI 9600 (non pro.) Using the VGA output. I want to optimize the video settings on the ATI control panel and may not end up using TheaterTek to play back DVDs.... but for now am looking for a starting point to see if anyone has scoped the ATI 9600 or similar/ Catalyst drivers outside of TheaterTek. |
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