AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Guys I need some advise. Right now I'm on a 7.2 setup on my dedicated home theatre. I'm planning to go the Atmos route and install 1 or 2 pair's of in-ceiling speakers. Planning on getting the Denon X3700H. I don't wanna spend on external amps so I can't set it up for a 7.2.4. So it's either a 5.2.4 or a 7.2.2 setup. A friend told me that since my room is not big that having only 1 pair of in-ceiling speakers for Atmos is good enough. My back surrounds are bookshelf B&W's placed on bracket's on the back wall. My HT has 2 rows with about 3 feet of space on the second row and the back wall. My side surround's are B&W Dipoles. Room is about 13'X20'.

1) Should I go 5.2.4 or a 7.2.2?
2) If I do the 5.2.4 do I need to install 2 in-ceiling speakers or can I just use the existing back surround as my second height channel?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
135 Posts
Strong vote for 5.2.4. One of the strengths of Atmos is that it gives you a very clear, immersive, detailed overhead sound field, and being able to take full advantage of the "in front" and "behind" aspects of that overhead imaging is huge.

For the same reason, it's definitely in your best interest to have all of your Atmos speakers be in-ceiling if at all possible so that the Atmos effects will "map" to your speaker positions - and, therefore, to your perceptions - as intended.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,368 Posts
If you really want to go 7.2.4 the X3700H will process 11.2 channels. If you have a current AVR with pre-amp inputs (a regular analog input like "DVD" etc. will work) you can use that to power the remaining two atmos channels. You don't need a dedicated external amp.

That is what I am doing. I have an X4500H amplifying all channels but the rear ATMOS speakers. The processed signal (pre-amplified) rear atmos speaker channels are fed to my old AVR (Denon AVR-1909) and input to the "DVD" analog input. The rear ATMOS speakers are just wired to the main L/R speaker connections on the 1909 and the 1909 is left on "Pure Direct" mode, which bypasses all processing and just does amplification. This way all processing is done in the X4500, and the X4500 also does the volume adjustment, etc.

In use it works just as if the 1909 was a dedicated external amp. My remote powers the 1909 on with all of the other components, but then it just sits and amplifies the signal coming in.

Just an option to think about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
If you really want to go 7.2.4 the X3700H will process 11.2 channels. If you have a current AVR with pre-amp inputs (a regular analog input like "DVD" etc. will work) you can use that to power the remaining two atmos channels. You don't need a dedicated external amp.

That is what I am doing. I have an X4500H amplifying all channels but the rear ATMOS speakers. The processed signal (pre-amplified) rear atmos speaker channels are fed to my old AVR (Denon AVR-1909) and input to the "DVD" analog input. The rear ATMOS speakers are just wired to the main L/R speaker connections on the 1909 and the 1909 is left on "Pure Direct" mode, which bypasses all processing and just does amplification. This way all processing is done in the X4500, and the X4500 also does the volume adjustment, etc.

In use it works just as if the 1909 was a dedicated external amp. My remote powers the 1909 on with all of the other components, but then it just sits and amplifies the signal coming in.

Just an option to think about.
Hey thanks for the advise. So your rear atmos speakers are connected/wired to your old AVR via the main L/R connections right? So what again is the connection from your 1909 to the X4500? The DVD analog input? Sorry I dont know much about pre outs?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,752 Posts
If you can do 7.x.4, you should. Definitely a .4 atmos setup either way, as it will give you that nice front to back vs. just left and right you would get with a .2 setup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,368 Posts
On my setup, I have all the speakers but the height2 speakers wired to the binding posts on the X4500H. Then a pair of analog, RCA wires (the blue ones in the pictures) from the "Pre-out - Height2" on the X4500H going into the "In - CD" input on my AVR-1909. Then the two rear ATMOS (the height2) speaker wires to the main L/R binding posts on my 1909.

On the 1909 I have it set to the "CD" analog input, in Pure Direct mode, with the volume set to 0db (full reference level.) That way the X4500 controls the volume of the rear atmos speakers by varying the input signal level. Then the rear atmos channels get leveled/Audyssey'd through the X4500H along with all the other channels like normal.


Back side of my X4500H -

20201020_104552_copy_2016x1512.jpg


Back side of my AVR-1909 -

20201020_104609_copy_2016x1512.jpg
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
On my setup, I have all the speakers but the height2 speakers wired to the binding posts on the X4500H. Then a pair of analog, RCA wires (the blue ones in the pictures) from the "Pre-out - Height2" on the X4500H going into the "In - CD" input on my AVR-1909. Then the two rear ATMOS (the height2) speaker wires to the main L/R binding posts on my 1909.

On the 1909 I have it set to the "CD" analog input, in Pure Direct mode, with the volume set to 0db (full reference level.) That way the X4500 controls the volume of the rear atmos speakers by varying the input signal level. Then the rear atmos channels get leveled/Audyssey'd through the X4500H along with all the other channels like normal.


Back side of my X4500H -

View attachment 3048359

Back side of my AVR-1909 -

View attachment 3048358
Thank you so much for taking the time to show some pictures. Greatly appreciate the help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
765 Posts
The Denon AVR-X3500H has 7 outputs and some pre outs as well. Can you do the same thing by sending some of the signal out of the pre out section? Or does the software not allow it?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,368 Posts
The Denon AVR-X3500H has 7 outputs and some pre outs as well. Can you do the same thing by sending some of the signal out of the pre out section? Or does the software not allow it?
I don't think so. I think the X3600H was the lowest level/oldest AVR with this capability.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
I've been doing some reading and some have suggested that it's better to separate the front soundstage? Would it be better instead to hook up and let the old receiver provide the power for the Front LRCenter channels while the new AVR will handle the rest of the surrounds? Thanks.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,159 Posts
Denon 3310 and 1802
I've been doing some reading and some have suggested that it's better to separate the front soundstage? Would it be better instead to hook up and let the old receiver provide the power for the Front LRCenter channels while the new AVR will handle the rest of the surrounds? Thanks.
Denon lists the AVR-X3700 as unavailable. Do you have a source?

The AVR-X3700 has 11 speaker terminals and 11 pre-outs. You should be able to configure it together with your other two receivers and maximize your system.

I would do 7.2.4 like so (provided you have the room and budget for the speakers):

Your 3310 has only stereo analog inputs and delivers 120wpc.

Use that to drive the fl/fr and offload two of the most strongly driven channels from your AVR-X3700 onto your biggest amp. AVR-X3700 has 105wpc and could use the help.

Your 1802 has 5.1 multichannel analog inputs and delivers 80wpc.

Use that to drive four of your bed-layer? (ear height) surround speakers, or any four of the 7.2.4 surround speakers that you cannot drive from your AVR-X3700 directly with its internal amps, depending on the AVR-X3700 capability.

Try to choose channels that are:
  • close to your MLP
  • larger and more efficient speakers
so that they have maximal gain at the MLP and won't overtax the limited power availability of the 80wpc 1802.

That covers 6 of your 11 channels, leaving the AVR-X3700 driving the other five, including the center.

This will give you full use of your AVR-X3700 channels while preserving as much of its headroom as possible for the critical center speaker that is probably a smaller and lower efficiency horizontal speaker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #13
Denon lists the AVR-X3700 as unavailable. Do you have a source?

The AVR-X3700 has 11 speaker terminals and 11 pre-outs. You should be able to configure it together with your other two receivers and maximize your system.

I would do 7.2.4 like so (provided you have the room and budget for the speakers):

Your 3310 has only stereo analog inputs and delivers 120wpc.

Use that to drive the fl/fr and offload two of the most strongly driven channels from your AVR-X3700 onto your biggest amp. AVR-X3700 has 105wpc and could use the help.

Your 1802 has 5.1 multichannel analog inputs and delivers 80wpc.

Use that to drive four of your bed-layer? (ear height) surround speakers, or any four of the 7.2.4 surround speakers that you cannot drive from your AVR-X3700 directly with its internal amps, depending on the AVR-X3700 capability.

Try to choose channels that are:
  • close to your MLP
  • larger and more efficient speakers
so that they have maximal gain at the MLP and won't overtax the limited power availability of the 80wpc 1802.

That covers 6 of your 11 channels, leaving the AVR-X3700 driving the other five, including the center.

This will give you full use of your AVR-X3700 channels while preserving as much of its headroom as possible for the critical center speaker that is probably a smaller and lower efficiency horizontal speaker.
Thanks so much for the advise. As reference my front speakers are B&W DM602 S3..center is B&W LCR60 S3. My side surrounds are B&W DS3 which has the option to set them as either "dipole" or "mono-pole" system. My back surrounds are B&W DM 303 while the 4 in-ceiling speakers for Atmos are B&W CCM362. My room isn't really too big...about 13'X20'. Has 2 rows of seating with a riser for the second row and about 3 feet of distance from the back wall to the back of the second row seats.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Denon lists the AVR-X3700 as unavailable. Do you have a source?

The AVR-X3700 has 11 speaker terminals and 11 pre-outs. You should be able to configure it together with your other two receivers and maximize your system.

I would do 7.2.4 like so (provided you have the room and budget for the speakers):

Your 3310 has only stereo analog inputs and delivers 120wpc.

Use that to drive the fl/fr and offload two of the most strongly driven channels from your AVR-X3700 onto your biggest amp. AVR-X3700 has 105wpc and could use the help.

Your 1802 has 5.1 multichannel analog inputs and delivers 80wpc.

Use that to drive four of your bed-layer? (ear height) surround speakers, or any four of the 7.2.4 surround speakers that you cannot drive from your AVR-X3700 directly with its internal amps, depending on the AVR-X3700 capability.

Try to choose channels that are:
  • close to your MLP
  • larger and more efficient speakers
so that they have maximal gain at the MLP and won't overtax the limited power availability of the 80wpc 1802.

That covers 6 of your 11 channels, leaving the AVR-X3700 driving the other five, including the center.

This will give you full use of your AVR-X3700 channels while preserving as much of its headroom as possible for the critical center speaker that is probably a smaller and lower efficiency horizontal speaker.
Thanks for the advise...I'm only planning on using the 3310 and getting rid of the 1802. So the 3310 will power the Front LR speakers and the X3700H will do the remaining 9 surround speakers.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
344 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
On my setup, I have all the speakers but the height2 speakers wired to the binding posts on the X4500H. Then a pair of analog, RCA wires (the blue ones in the pictures) from the "Pre-out - Height2" on the X4500H going into the "In - CD" input on my AVR-1909. Then the two rear ATMOS (the height2) speaker wires to the main L/R binding posts on my 1909.

On the 1909 I have it set to the "CD" analog input, in Pure Direct mode, with the volume set to 0db (full reference level.) That way the X4500 controls the volume of the rear atmos speakers by varying the input signal level. Then the rear atmos channels get leveled/Audyssey'd through the X4500H along with all the other channels like normal.


Back side of my X4500H -

View attachment 3048359

Back side of my AVR-1909 -

View attachment 3048358
Hey...I just my X3700H. A couple of questions if you don't mind.

1) Do I need to reset the AVR to factory settings?

2) If using an old AVR, you would connect from the primary AVR pre-outs to one of
the stereo analog audio inputs (eg. CD) of the old AVR and then connect the speakers
to the Front L/R speaker posts on the old AVR-this only applies if I only plan to
power just the 2 front CH. What if I want to power all the 3 front CH including the
CENTER CH? Where do I connect the Center pre-out to the old AVR?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,368 Posts
Hey...I just my X3700H. A couple of questions if you don't mind.

1) Do I need to reset the AVR to factory settings?
Not necessarily. I just set mine to the "CD" input, then set it to "pure direct" which bypasses all of the old audyssey adjustments, etc. Then set the volume to 0 dB (reference level.) After that, all of the volume adjustment, audyssey corrections, etc. is handled by the x4500h.

2) If using an old AVR, you would connect from the primary AVR pre-outs to one of
the stereo analog audio inputs (eg. CD) of the old AVR and then connect the speakers
to the Front L/R speaker posts on the old AVR-this only applies if I only plan to
power just the 2 front CH. What if I want to power all the 3 front CH including the
CENTER CH? Where do I connect the Center pre-out to the old AVR?
Both your 3310 and 1802 have the multichannel analog inputs (labelled "EXT IN" on the back.) Then you would need to set that AVR to the "multi channel in" setting and then "pure direct." But I don't know if the X3700h has a setup that will output the three front channels while running the rest. I think it only supports outputting either the mains or the second height channels.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top