[DreamWarrior]

I know this has been discussed, but I was hoping we could collaborate to generate a list of titles and players that are known broken or working. I know the Oppo threads are filled with unhappy people, but this is not just affecting that player. There have been reports of Sony players with issues, and my own older Samsung has audio drop-outs as well.

Thus far, I believe everyone has successfully resolved the issue by setting the player to PCM output, but it is annoying to have to switch, and obviously if you actually have an Atmos setup you don't exactly have the choice to switch.

I suppose what I'm hoping for is, for any Atmos titles, something like:


[*] / -> /

Where the status is either a pass or fail based on whether the player was able to flawlessly bitstream the entire disc without audio/video anomalies -- so far, it seems audio dropouts are the only anomaly found.

If you'd like to be more specific that's great, too. Just please comment under the
[*] line. This is in case we get enough responses to warrant a thread scraper to pull out all the pass/fails and create some better statistics. I can just make the scraper look for all lines that start with
[*] and ignore everything else and auto-generate a spreadsheet. To help with this, if you'd also include separate lines (starting with
[*]) for each fail/pass that'd be awesome!

At the very least, maybe this thread can compile a list of titles people should be wary of / boycott if they don't want to run up against issues. Or maybe we'll get lucky and Lionsgate will stop with their stupid authoring techniques! If not, it can also serve as a buying guide to those that want/need a working player for these titles.

Finally, I'd be very curious about people successfully streaming these to Atmos receivers and actually playing back in Atmos -- though, at the moment, I'd suppose those folks are far and few in between.

I'll start:


[*] John Wick / Samsung BD-C5500 -> Denon 4311ci / fail

 

[teachsac]

The Denon 4311 doesn't support Atmos. Are you including players that have difficulties with the core TrueHD, also? John Wick played perfectly on my non-atmos system. Panasonic BDT320 ->Marantz AV7005. I bet if I tried on my Panasonic BDT230, it would have dropouts like the Disney discs, Monsters U, etc.

[*] John Wick / Panasonic BDT320 ->Marantz AV7005 /Pass

In actuality, all Atmos discs have played on my Panasonic without any incidents.

S~

 

[DreamWarrior]

The Denon 4311 doesn't support Atmos. Are you including players that have difficulties with the core TrueHD, also? John Wick played perfectly on my non-atmos system. Panasonic BDT320 ->Marantz AV7005. I bet if I tried on my Panasonic BDT230, it would have dropouts like the Disney discs, Monsters U, etc.

John Wick / Panasonic BDT320 ->Marantz AV7005 /Pass

In actuality, all Atmos discs have played on my Panasonic without any incidents.

S~

Honestly, I only included the AVR just so we know more of the story. I believe it should not matter and is more a player issue than an AVR issue, but...maybe we'll see.

As for the core TrueHD; as far as I know, that's basically what is being played back and the Atmos data is in the metadata portion of the stream. I don't believe there are two different tracks on the discs. At least, I didn't see a selection for TrueHD sans Atmos on the John Wick disc menu.

Thanks for the data point.

 

[teachsac]

No. There aren't two separate tracks. It is the TrueHD plus the Atmos meta-data. I'd like to get as clear as possible, because I'm possibly looking at replacing some of the outdated sticky threads with more relevant threads like this. Another option would be to copy and paste to your first post as responses come in.

S~

 

[Jacob305]

This is a great idea to have just a subject on the atmos bitstreaming issues. as far as a know its only with lionsgate titles of the expendables 3, john wick and hunger games 3. this is with the oppo 93 player. Hunger games 3 had alot less then expendables 3. I do not own john wick on blu ray.

I own gravity from Warner bros and paramount pictures transformers 4 and they do not have any issues. I still have all of Unbroken to watch from Universal. I didn't have any issues from what I have seen so far.

this is with the onkyo 626 receiver. non atmos receiver.

On the plus side, i would highly recommend the gravity movie. it truly shows off what Atmos/trueHD can do. It adds more intensity to the film.
http://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/Gravity-Diamond-Luxe-Edition-Blu-ray-Review.shtml

Jacob

 

[teachsac]

Lionsgate has had one issue or another since the inception of Blu-ray. Nothing against the movies, but their authoring is horrible.


S~

 

[deano86]

Not necessarily a Lionsgate issue... The issue is mainly due to a feature called seamless branching coupled with Dolby True HD soundtracks. The recent Sony remake of Total Recall was notorious for audio dropouts only when bitstreaming, PCM is fine. The newer the player, the better off you are in regards to this issue.. especially for those with ATMOS setups that need to use bitstreaming... I had a perfectly working Sony BDP-S770 that I had to update to the BDP-S6200 which has taken care of any audio dropouts with the seamless branching titles... I also noted that the Transformers 4 ATMOS was a problem for my 770 in that it wouldn't necessarily have the drop outs, but it would have lip sync issues occasionally throughout the movie.... This was also cured with the newer player...

 

[DreamWarrior]

No. There aren't two separate tracks. It is the TrueHD plus the Atmos meta-data. I'd like to get as clear as possible, because I'm possibly looking at replacing some of the outdated sticky threads with more relevant threads like this. Another option would be to copy and paste to your first post as responses come in.

S~

If you want to sticky it that'd be cool. But, if it does just turn out to be all Lionsgate titles then I suppose it's just a "which players work with Lionsgate's crappy disillusioned mastering process". I'm not sure if that's very useful, though.

I wasn't sure if there were other discs. I was aware the theory was the seamless branching caused most the issues. But, I have plenty of Lionsgate features and have never had an issue with any until now. So....

I suppose we'll see how it shakes out. However you want to handle it, I'm willing to help compile whatever I can with the data we get.

 

[teachsac]

We're going to wait and see how it goes. If it takes off and generates a lot of good info, we'll sticky it. If it fizzles, we'll let it go. Personally I went from the Panasonic 330 to an older player, Panasonic 320, to eliminate the sound dropout issues with Disney. I think a lot of it has to do with the chipset used by the player. Zero issues with my Panasonic BDT320 (plays everything) and Denon.


S~

 

[Jacob305]

We're going to wait and see how it goes. If it takes off and generates a lot of good info, we'll sticky it. If it fizzles, we'll let it go. Personally I went from the Panasonic 330 to an older player, Panasonic 320, to eliminate the sound dropout issues with Disney. I think a lot of it has to do with the chipset used by the player. Zero issues with my Panasonic BDT320 (plays everything) and Denon.


S~

I agree with DreamWarrior. we should have this thread as a sticky since it has been a problem for the last 6 months or so. it seems like an ongoing problem with lionsgate. I heard the new insurgent sequel will have Atmos. it could have some possible issues. Its also a lionsgate disc.

I heard that Jupiter and american sniper will both have atmos. Both are from Warner bros. hopefully no issues like gravity.

Jacob

 

[boylan13]

Finally, I'd be very curious about people successfully streaming these to Atmos receivers and actually playing back in Atmos -- though, at the moment, I'd suppose those folks are far and few in between.

Well in the "light at the end of the tunnel" department, I can tell you that *ALL* of the Dolby Atmos discs released to date stream properly with no dropouts on an OPPO BDP-103 player bitstreaming to a Marantz SR7009 Atmos-capable receiver. They all are properly decoded in Atmos and sound fantastic in a 5.1.4 configuration. The only one I actually haven't tested at all yet is that Red Bull motorcycle one ("On Any Sunday: The Next Chapter") but I'm assuming that one will be OK as well.

And we should find out tomorrow whether said receiver will be upgradeable to DTS:X.

-CB

 

[DreamWarrior]

Well in the "light at the end of the tunnel" department, I can tell you that *ALL* of the Dolby Atmos discs released to date stream properly with no dropouts on an OPPO BDP-103 player bitstreaming to a Marantz SR7009 Atmos-capable receiver.

Good to know, but I can't find anyone with issues to non-Atmos AVR's with that same player. So, maybe it's just that particular player is good enough to handle the massively branched titles.

I'd be interested to see if you can hook a known problematic player to your setup and replicate the issues people with non-Atmos setups are having. If you can, then that'd be even more fuel on the "fix these titles" fire! Or, at least another point of contention for people looking to implement Atmos -- they may need a newer/better player to compensate for some title's authoring.

 

[Rich86]

I am not sure how to contribute to this effort , , but here goes . .
I have a fair number of Lionsgate titles & Dolby TrueHD/Atmos titles.
I have a number of blu-ray players, all Panasonic or Sony.
I have had no problems or audio dropouts playing any of the titles previously mentioned (choosing Dolby Atmos and/or Dolby TrueHD and bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD to my Yamaha RX-V3900) using various blu-ray players including:
. Panasonic DMP-BD55 & DMP-BD65
. Sony BDP-S350, BDP-S550 & BDP-S1000ES.
These are all cinavia free models.

I have not run every title folks have complained about in every model player listed above, but I would be happy to test a specific title (if I have it) on any of these models if that would be helpful to someone.

 

[DreamWarrior]

I am not sure how to contribute to this effort , , but here goes . .
I have a fair number of Lionsgate titles & Dolby TrueHD/Atmos titles.
I have a number of blu-ray players, all Panasonic or Sony.
I have had no problems or audio dropouts playing any of the titles previously mentioned (choosing Dolby Atmos and/or Dolby TrueHD and bitstreaming Dolby TrueHD to my Yamaha RX-V3900) using various blu-ray players including:
. Panasonic DMP-BD55 & DMP-BD65
. Sony BDP-S350, BDP-S550 & BDP-S1000ES.
These are all cinavia free models.

I have not run every title folks have complained about in every model player listed above, but I would be happy to test a specific title (if I have it) on any of these models if that would be helpful to someone.

Wow, if I recall correctly the Panasonic DMP-BD55 is a pretty old (maybe 2008?) model. Actually, I may have had one...and if I remember right, it used to stutter during chapter breaks in my setup on a lot of discs and that's why I replaced it. I don't know, it was too long ago, lol.

Makes me start to wonder if the AVR does have anything to do with this.... Unfortunately, it seems some of the known problematic players have issues over a variety of connected AVRs.

Hopefully this issue is limited to fewer player models than I had original surmised. That'd be good for those of us that need to replace our player to bitstream these titles -- there's a high probability that we get one that works. Pity we have to do so, though!

 

[rdgrimes]

Inclusion of "Atmos" in this discussion is misleading. The presence or absence of Atmos had nothing to do with the problems. Any of the players having dropout issues with these titles are fully capable of bitstreaming Atmos - in the absence of complex seamless branching. If you doubt that, pick up a copy of one of the Atmos titles that doesn't have seamless branching. The dropout issues with complex seamless branching and DTHD are not new, in fact it goes back a couple years.

 

[Rich86]

Wow, if I recall correctly the Panasonic DMP-BD55 is a pretty old (maybe 2008?) model. Actually, I may have had one...and if I remember right, it used to stutter during chapter breaks in my setup on a lot of discs and that's why I replaced it. I don't know, it was too long ago, lol.

The Panasonic DMP-BD55 (& BD35) have exhibited some problems with their laser drive assemblies in the past, according to posts I have come across. My BD55 started gagging on certain portions of discs and making some unpleasant noises along with that. I opened it up, opened up the disk drive assembly, and cleaned it out (dust, etc. it had accumulated over the years), cleaned the lasers, cleaned the rails the laser assembly rides on, cleaned the platter the disk sits on, lubricated the rails the laser assembly rides on, put it back together and it has been good to go ever since. Maybe that was more related to what you had experienced rather than a general problem playing seamless branching titles coupled with Dolby TrueHD/Atmos.

btw . . the Panasonic DMP-BD35 & 55 models are approximately the same vintage as the Sony BDP-S350 & 550 models - mid 2008 or so. I believe the Sony BDP-S1000ES came out in mid 2009. The Panasonic DMP-BD65s are 2010 manufactured models.

 

[Geoff D]

Inclusion of "Atmos" in this discussion is misleading. The presence or absence of Atmos had nothing to do with the problems. Any of the players having dropout issues with these titles are fully capable of bitstreaming Atmos - in the absence of complex seamless branching. If you doubt that, pick up a copy of one of the Atmos titles that doesn't have seamless branching. The dropout issues with complex seamless branching and DTHD are not new, in fact it goes back a couple years.

Yep. This is something that's been bubbling away for a while now, but because so few titles in recent years have used TrueHD the issue of DTHD + branching = bitstreaming drop outs has basically been forgotten about. However, because Atmos uses TrueHD as its 'core' this problem has suddenly reared its head again. (And yes, it IS the same problem which caused the drop outs on Sony's Total Recall.)

Heck, it wouldn't be so bad if it occurred only on titles that actually needed to use seamless branching (like the enhanced commentary on the IMAX edition of Into Darkness, or the two versions on one disc for Expendables 3) because that's still fairly rare, but Lionsgate are persisting with this stupid anti-piracy thing that jumbles up the movie if you don't pick the right playlist when you rip it (as if that was ever gonna work, the right playlist is on the net before the disc is even released!).

And for reference, it's due to certain MediaTek chipsets used in certain players (Oppo 83/93/95, Sony x70 series) which is the root cause of the problem. @teachsac mentioned how he had to go back to a Panny 320 from a 330 because of the drop outs, and guess what happened in between the 320 and 330 product generations? Panasonic changed the decoding silicon from their own excellent Uniphier chip to........a MediaTek solution.

It's not something MediaTek can't correct because they did it for the 10x series Oppo's, it's more that they won't correct it because they insist that they've stopped supporting the older chipsets which are affected.

 

[teachsac]

I believe I read with the older mediaTek chip that they couldn't whereas on the newer chipset in the 103, etc. they could. Don't quote me, I could be wrong.

 

[SeeMoreDigital]

I seem to remember having issues playing the EU Directors Cut version of Terminator Salvation.

The disc has been authored with 188No .m2ts files the largest of which is just over 3 GB. The main movie alone comprises of 33No .m2ts files... It was a right sod to back-up too

 

[rdgrimes]

I believe I read with the older mediaTek chip that they couldn't whereas on the newer chipset in the 103, etc. they could. Don't quote me, I could be wrong.

I'm not certain that the MTK chipsets are the only ones having issues, I'd be surprised if they are. But they do represent a majority of older players.
The issue is with processing power and internal processor cache (or lack of it). So its not impossible that some chips just can't handle the load of both branching and DTHD. They certainly can handle either one alone.

The studios using complex seamless branching protections are FULLY aware of these issues and choose to ignore them. What really should be happening is massive numbers of movies being returned as defective. There are several smarter and problem-free ways to accomplish the same type JAVA protections that don't involve complex seamless branching. The studios are swatting flies with a bazooka.