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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking at purchasing the new JVC SRDVD-100U DVD player, which will play ATSC HDTV transport streams (from DVDR or across a network) as well as DivX HD and WMV HD. So I'm looking for the most streamlined method of converting recorded ATSC HDTV transport streams to DivX HD for archving.


Ideally, I'd like an application that will load the ATSC HDTV transport stream and allow me to edit out the commercials. It would edit the AC3, but leave it as-is, in order to avoid additional conversions and maintain surround sound, etc. It would perform inverse telecine, cropping (bottom 8 lines of 1088 high streams), possibly scaling (to reverse the 1280x720p to 1920x1080i conversion my local ABC affiliate insists on doing), and then feed the DivX codec for encoding. It should interleave the AC3 into the AVI along with the DivX.


The closest I've come so far is using DGIndex to create a D2V file and extract the AC3. Then using AVISynth to perform inverse telecine and cropping on the input video. Then load the AVS and AC3 into VirtualDubMod for editing. Finally output to DivX. However, DGMPEGDec + AVISynth + VirtualDubMod is extremely lethargic. Response is just too slow on my 2400+ or 2600+ machines for reasonable editing.


The DivX Converter will do the inverse telecine, but it re-encodes the audio, and it forces the resolution and bit rate down to some artificial limits, which degrades the quality.


Does anyone have any suggestions?


Xesdeeni
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy
why not just Leave them as a .TS and Edit the commercials with HDTV2Mpeg2 ?


H2M has Null-stripping built-in too.
Because storing/watching a movie that takes up 2-5 DVDs is not really very fun.


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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I hadn't heard of AltBinariesHDTV. I've registered. We'll see what folks there think. Thanks!


I'm all over Doom9. Not much luck with this particular problem over there.


Xesdeeni
 

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Making DivX HD-DVDs would be great, but doesn't encoding take forever? I looked into this recently & concluded I need to stick to D-VHS for archiving.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Yes, the conversion time is currently pretty significant. That's kind of the other side of the coin. But I think there are ways to improve this process considerably. I've started a thread on AltBinariesHDTV (thanks HiDefRentals!) about just this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xesdeeni
http://www.altbinarieshdtv.com/phpBB...pic.php?t=7144
Speeding up TS to Divx/XVID Conversion


I'm not expecting anyone to provide an absolute solution, but maybe we can work together to put togther the pieces that will optimize the overall process.


By way of background, I'm looking into purchasing the JVC SRDVD-100U ( http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/f...&feature_id=01 ) (based on the IOData LinkPlayer2 and similar to the Buffalo LinkTheater) when it comes out next month (or at least when the street price gets closer to $300 Smile). It will give me the ability to play TS from my HTPC while I record other programs, and I'll have the ability to combine multi-DVD TS archives and make life easier when the family wants to watch a movie or TV show.


So I'm trying to come up with the most efficient method of doing the conversion. It seems I came across the same combination of process and tools as indicated in the sticky above for converting TS to DivX/XVID (DGIndex/DGMPGEnc -> Decomb/AVISynth -> VirtualDubMod). The quality can be very nice, and would certainly be wonderful for putting movies on a single DVD.


However the process takes way too long to be practical for me. On my 2600+, my test conversion of a 22 minute program took 7 1/2 hours! Granted, that was using the latest DivX encoder, and there may be more efficient settings or XVID might be faster. But it's still much too long to be much use this fall while my hard drives fill up as the TV season goes on.


On top of that, editing with this setup is extremely difficult and slow, since the responsiveness is so lethargic. And realisitically, the process needs to be pretty streamlined for me to do many conversions. My family just won't let me have hours to edit, manually adjust the telecine, etc. (Certainly the video needs editing, but the slow responsiveness makes this a very long process.)


I don't think any one piece is responsible for the slow speed. I think each step can be improved.


To start with, DGMPGDec doesn't seem to be as fast as it could be. The same 2600+ machine can play back HD in real time using a software decoder, even without DxVA enabled. But I can't get AVISynth via DirectShowSource() to use the same codec (I get a variety of errors, including when I try to manually create and load a filter graph). Is there any way to speed up this decoder or another one that can be used in its place?


Next, I inverse the telecine using Decomb. Does this add an unusually amount of overhead? Is it possible to cheat with this and have it process a smaller picture to reduce it?


Also, since VirtualDubMod's requires RGB, there are quite a few color space conversions in place. The TS is YV12, VDM requires RGB, and doesn't DivX/XVID go back to YV12?


And finally, are there any suggestions to speed up the DivX/XVID encoding? 5 Mbps would give 2 hours on a DVD, so that's probably the practical starting point.
Xesdeeni
 

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heh, i replied to your thread there yesterday.


given time there should be 64 bit builds of all of these particular applications and filters which should help a bit, there's a discussion going on about that on doom9 right now actually. someone has compiled 64 bit versions of avisynth, dgindex, and there already was one for virtualdub. problem is all of the filters you'd want for avisynth need to be recompiled to work with those extra registers too.


i think that's the next most likely speed improvement you'll see, but again that leads back to what i mentioned on the other forum, throwing hardware at it will fix the problem. fully software video processing will always be CPU hungry, nothing is gonna change that.


SMP also helps a bit. the codecs aren't smp aware (at least divx and xvid aren't, i assume WM9 isn't either), nor is avisynth, nor is virtualdub, but what they can do is split load amongst 2 cpus, so that avisynth uses one and virtualdub the other, for instance. this will not give anywhere near double performance, but it's noticable, 10-15 percent or so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brajesh
Making DivX HD-DVDs would be great, but doesn't encoding take forever? I looked into this recently & concluded I need to stick to D-VHS for archiving.
when you figure prep time and minor editing that's usually involved with any HD stream, it takes roughly one day to get a 2 hour movie done.


the vast majority of that is unattended encoding, though, so it's not too bad.


however when there are 64 bit versions of everything in the chain of apps and codecs and filters, and if you throw SMP on top of that, it might realistically be cut down to 12-18 hours instead of 24, assuming a pair of the current ~3ghz CPUs with 64 bit extensions. take a look at the dell server deals that people mention on the abhdtv forums.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Well, my goal on this thread was to attack the simplicity of the conversion. I was hoping the other one would address the performance :)


Currently, I'm seeing either:


VideoRedo - edit TS

DGIndex - extract AC3 (or maybe WAV) (create D2V file)

DGMPGDec - decode TS

AVISynth - crop video

Decomb - inverse telecine

VirtualDub(Mod) + DivX/XVID - encode video (maybe also audio)

(VirtualDubMod - merge audio and video)


or (more sluggish)


DGIndex - extract AC3 (or maybe WAV) (create D2V file)

DGMPGDec - decode TS

AVISynth - crop video

Decomb - inverse telecine

VirtualDubMod - edit video, encode video, (maybe encode audio), and merge video and audio


That just seems convoluted. I was hoping we could come up with something more streamlined.


Xesdeeni
 

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I've been trying to figure out the best way to do this as well, mostly for movies off HDTV, and I've come down to using DGIndex on the .ts files to get the index file to use in AVISynth and to get the AC3 track. Then I use x264 GUI to get the resulting MP4 stream (two passes for "Cold Mountain" took almost two days).


I'm using AVISynth script also with Decomb and DGMPGDec, plus shrink to 1280x720 from 1080i, then x264 command line (or GUI) can dump directly to mkv or mp4.


That's a pretty direct pipe I think. Results are very good too, although I'd love to speed things up a bit. I'm still fine tuning things.


I'm wondering if bringing down the resolution to 1024x576 or something like that would make any difference in encoding time. Probably not worth it.


I tried XviD, but ran into motion smearing. Haven't seen that with x264. I usually encode around 5000bps...


Always looking for a better way to do all this, but this subject seems limited on most of the forums. Most people seem to want to downconvert all the way to DVD.


I'm storing all my final products on a FreeBSD box with a big USB box of storage (just over 1TB) and streaming to my HTPC over SMB. I'd rather store the stuff on my hard drive and keep adding. Better quality and $/GB is always coming down.
 

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bringing the resolution down can improve the speed depending on how you resize. tom barry wrote a very quick filter called interlacedReduceBy2 or some such, forget the exact name, but it basically chops 1080i in half down to 540p, and of course since you'll then be encoding much smaller frames the speed would be much faster.


if you deinterlace and resize after, for instance, you probably won't see as much improvement since you're still doing a good bit of processing before encoding the actual frames.


this is the main reason i still use xvid btw, do you have some other reason for using x264? it takes significantly longer to encode with, and significantly more cpu horsepower to play back. like i said i can get pretty much any single movie done with xvid in less than 24 hours, and the quality difference is not perceptible to me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xayd
bringing the resolution down can improve the speed depending on how you resize. tom barry wrote a very quick filter called interlacedReduceBy2 or some such, forget the exact name, but it basically chops 1080i in half down to 540p, and of course since you'll then be encoding much smaller frames the speed would be much faster.


if you deinterlace and resize after, for instance, you probably won't see as much improvement since you're still doing a good bit of processing before encoding the actual frames.


this is the main reason i still use xvid btw, do you have some other reason for using x264? it takes significantly longer to encode with, and significantly more cpu horsepower to play back. like i said i can get pretty much any single movie done with xvid in less than 24 hours, and the quality difference is not perceptible to me.
Just want a clarification on this device. Are we sure it will play back standard ATSC .ts files. It is touted as having the ability to play back HDV .ts files, which is a proprietary new format. And is there a firm release date for it?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark
Just want a clarification on this device. Are we sure it will play back standard ATSC .ts files. It is touted as having the ability to play back HDV .ts files, which is a proprietary new format. And is there a firm release date for it?
I'm not sure which device you are referring to, but the following will play back ATSC TS from DVDR or network:


+ IOData LinkPlayer2

+ Buffalo LinkTheater

- JVC SRDVD-100U (not released, but in the specs)

- Zensonic Z500 (not released, but in the specs)


Xesdeeni
 

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I have not had good luck at all with DIVX. The end result is lacking in quality. I have had better luck and performance using Nero Digital. It looks better and is much faster at least on my system.


Windows XP Pro

P.4 2.6 ghz with HT

2 Hitachi ATA 400 gig drives

ATI 9800 Radeon

4 Gig PC400 RAM

I use HDTV2MPEG. It works okay but still has moments of stutter and audio noise. I just don't think the process is stable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by paintit77
I have not had good luck at all with DIVX. The end result is lacking in quality. I have had better luck and performance using Nero Digital. It looks better and is much faster at least on my system.
But it's not HD.
Quote:
I use HDTV2MPEG. It works okay but still has moments of stutter and audio noise. I just don't think the process is stable.
You use HDTVtoMPEG2 for what? It does a good job of editing TS files (and writing TS files back out), but only on I-frame boundaries. It also is good for stripping NULL packets (and other subchannels) if those are in your stream. But H2M doesn't do a good job at outputting MPEG, in spite of its name.

A new article on AndAndTech talks about ATI's new cards and their support for hardware encode. This might be a good way to shorten the path and speed it up. Unfortunately, it looks like this may only be available on the newest cards. This means prices that are ridiculous for my HTPC (for the $400 of the card, I can get 1.2 TB of hard drives to store the original TS). On top of that, the new cards are likely only to support PCI-Express, meaning a new HTPC would be required. And given that the HD devices don't support multi-threading, and don't have 64-bit drivers, this is definitely not worth the cost.


Xesdeeni
 
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