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First of all, I question the ethics of posting this when it is clearly intended not to be publicly released.


The results certainly point out a need for improvement, but the report does confirm what many on this forum have said repeatedly; namely that 8-VSB does replicate NTSC coverage for those who get a reasonable NTSC signal. The article says reception was successful for 92% of those with Grade-3 or better signals. In other words, it is nearly always possible for someone who gets decent NTSC reception to also be able to get DTV with the proper antenna. That would explain why rarely are there people who simply cannot get a signal no matter what they try.


It is still not 100%, though.





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Rich Peterson

DBS Consumer Guide Author
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Rich, as a "Consumer Guide Author", don't you agree that whoever put this report on the Internet (I have no idea who) provided a service to American consumers and the broadcasting industry? For the record, the URL was forwarded to me by a Forum member.

 

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Yawn........


There really isn't anything new here. I certainly don't dispute that 8VSB could be better. The hope and belief is that it will get better. Time will tell. They (NAB, FCC, CEA) have chosen their path. That path does not twist back to COFDM. The bed is made and here we lay........


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Geof
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hey Bob Ross (aka Bob Smith). Be careful going around CBS sounding like a cow. They could just shoot you for Hoof and Mouth disease.
 

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BU Forgive me!!!


This report (even though obtained questionably) gives me even more encouragement of 8VSB's superiority!!! The ONLY place where COFDM showed superiority was in figure 13, and then not by very much! In all other cases, 8VSB was superior! Especially interesting is for people like me in the fringe area where the inherent SNR of 8VSB is important.


Also interesting are the methods left to explore to enhance 8VSB reception, space diversity, polarization diversity, different LMS algorithms, and lots of other stuff. It will be interesting in 5 years to see where 8VSB and COFDM stack up. It will probably be like NTSC which PAL applied a band-aid to fix, and is now about unnecessary as teats on a boar hog, only a lot of extra circuitry that needs to be implemented to make PAL work.


I guess it was 'worse than you thought', but only for justifying a change to COFDM. Just as enhancements to NTSC made the PAL patch unnecessary, smart American designers will make COFDM look like a flawed attempt to patch around imagined problems.


Again, Thanks Bob! Sorry I doubted you.


Bob Smith
 

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Hey Bob Utne

I wonder if you even own an HDTV with OTA capability. I guess you just don't get massage.


8-VSB is the standard in the USA.

MOOOOOOOOOOO to you, ASS HOLE.


You should be charge and jailed for placing that link on this forum. FCC publish their test results back in January. Oh by the way, there is no new information in that report.




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Bruce.in.Cary
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Guess you guys will not be joining my fan club!


Bruce regarding your comment "I guess you just don't get massage",

what does my massage therapist have to do with HDTV?


[This message has been edited by Bob Utne (edited 04-04-2001).]
 

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Hey BU,

Why don't you tell us what equipment you have. I mean, are you enjoying HDTV like alot of other people? Cause if you are, then you say you support COFDM, but yet you buy 8VSB equipment..hmmm. And if you aren't enjoying HDTV yet, then why do these 8VSB vs COFDM debates even matter? You have no money invested.

OH WAIT, you must be worried about all of America...how nice...but guess what, all of America doesn't give a rats ass about you.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bob Utne:
8-VSB=commercial oblivion

I think it's more like:


8VSB=Utne oblivion


Yup, that's more like it. I noticed that while you're littering this forum, your brother, [email protected], is littering the newsgroups. How many times a day do you talk with the other bob and plan your invasion strategies?
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Not invasion, education.


The transition to HDTV is not working, there is nothing on the horizon to indicate that 8-VSB tech can be improved and the feds have no chance of getting the spectrum back by 2006.


For the record, outside of Dale Cripps, Craig Birkmaier, Mark Shubin and a few others, I know of no one posting on the Internet who has been a stronger proponent of HDTV than me, going back to 1994. This goes back to Zenith postings on Prodigy and various board on Silicon Investor. I have put my money where my mouth is in investing in HDTV-oriented companies and am sorry that no broadcasters in my area deliver free OTA HDTV.


So, we have a serious OTA DTV implementation problem. We can either plow along like we are today or immediately address the problem by allowing broadcasters to transmit DTV signals however they chose provided interference is kept to an absolute minimum.


You have a better solution?


[This message has been edited by Bob Utne (edited 04-05-2001).]
 

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Bob,

This dicussion is pointless and is not related to HDTV any more so than talk of FM or AM or Momma's cookies. The Forum Adminstartors have asked everyone (including and especially the 2 Bob's) to refrain from discussing this issue in this forum. This is the HDTV Hardware forum not the shoulda/coulda/woulda forum. Because the format has been set and is established this discussion belongs elsewhere and there are several forums and USENET outlets wherein you can post all you want. Pursuing this matter to the nth degree doesn't do anyone any good. Minds are made up and the standard has been set. Like it or not that's the way it is. Live with it or take it elsewhere. No one on this board has the power to make changes and no one is being convinmced by your continue diatribe. I suggest you take this matter up with politicans and federal regulators...at least they might have the power to do something if you can convince them.


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Geof
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Geof, You are obviously an intelligent guy and well know that many if not all of the nation's 1,600 TV broadcasters and nine networks monitor this site. It is they who have the muscle through the NAB to make needed changes to speed HDTV implementation.


I sincerely believe that the broadcasters have been conned by the ATSC into thinking that 8-VSB offers them the best alternative. All I'm attempting to accomplish is to help bring to light the facts to better inform the broadcasters and American public. Other than that, I have no political power to affect the needed changes.


On a personal note, HDTV is one of my passions and am frustrated as hell that I am unable to receive OTA HDTV.
 

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Bob said...
Quote:
...know that many if not all of the nation's 1,600 TV broadcasters and nine networks monitor this site.
So Bob, I guess what you're implying is that the nation's 1600 TV broadcasters are such lame-brained idiots that they rely on or place a heavy weight on discussions on an internet AV forum to make major business decisions and are so ill-informed from other industry and government information sources? OH PLEASE!


These threads are very entertaining, if not pathetic.
 
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